UK vs VA Tech
- Thread starter Dakota25
- Start date
Buzz going with the Tom Crean offensive philosophy this year.
They'll get hot and beat a few teams they shouldn't, but they probably wont finish in the top half of the ACC.
They'll get hot and beat a few teams they shouldn't, but they probably wont finish in the top half of the ACC.
I actually don't know what the hell your little gif means. Apparently you can't write a cogent message dude.
Not at all.
If you think she was fishing you have a very, very, very good imagination. I deal with facts.
Well good. That gives me reason come the ACC season SoundSlave. What a class guy.
ACC was exposed in the tournament last year for being way overrated, as we already knew.
I'm not gonna say one way or another. I watch a good bit of basketball though, even ACC basketball, and I know that whenever a team can score the ball the way that VT can, they can do some major damage. I'm not predicating this on my like or dislike for whichever team in the ACC, but teams that post offensive numbers like VT cause a lot of issues for a lot of teams. I wouldn't even be slightly shocked if I seen them end up in the top 4 of the ACC. Virginia does the same type of thing defensively every year. Putrid offense, beautiful defense. Not sure why it would be far-fetched for a team that's not great defensively, but appears to have the best offense in the ACC, to be a top 4 team in that league.
It's not far-fetched at all. VTech can beat anyone in that league and will have several impressive wins. GE Nole is just generally condescending.
Well, you kind of discredit everything you say when you claim UVA typically has a putrid offense. They have a slow offense, but it's quite efficient.
As for VT, they are a solid team. Just like I said prior to the UK game. But "solid teams" with a lack of depth don't finish top 4 in the ACC over an 18 game schedule.
Duke twice, Miami twice, UVA twice, Louisville twice...Somewhere around 9-9 or 10-8 sounds right for VT.
The best offenses can beat the best teams on any night. Been that way since basketball became a thing. See lowly Boston College vs Duke for an example, and VT is a much better team that Boston College. It's naive to think that great offenses can't be top 4 teams in a league. I'm not saying they're going to be the class of the ACC, that's super unlikely, but not in the top 4? Well, I just don't know about that. Duke and Miami is the class of the ACC, but after that? I'm not ready to say that VT can't be better than Florida State, North Carolina, or Louisville this season.
I agree that VT can beat anyone in the league and I also agree that VT will have several impressive wins. They do every season.
It's just not the way it works in the ACC. Finishing in the top 4 is really dang hard.
VT and FSU are in that pack battling it out for spots 5-9.
They have a methodical offense, and in the college game, that's alright when you have their defense, but they do not have elite offensive talents. They have a good shooter in Kyle Guy, but that's it.
Let's be real here, in every game that we've seen UVA's defense fail to stifle opponents, have they ever just outscored a team? No. Year in and year out, they fail to have that offensive firepower. What they're doing in 25 or 26 second possessions, they've never been able to maintain for games that are sped up.
But you're telling me that Virginia Tech, whose stats point to them being the most efficient offensive team in the nation, couldn't be top 4 in the ACC?
I think they're plenty deep enough. They're deep enough to run a press and score 96 per game, so I would wager depth isn't an issue.
I watch a good bit of ACC basketball, as I said. I'm a UK fan, but I watch a lot of basketball. A lot of UK fans do watch a lot of basketball. I'm a real fan of the sport, though.
Virginia Tech is the best offensive team in the ACC, and maybe the country. There's no logical reason for saying that they CAN NOT be a top 4 team in that conference.
UVA does outscore people. It just doesn't seem like it because the number of possessions are so low.
Right now, VT has the 14th most efficient offense in the country. That's 4th best in the ACC. But their D is 10th most efficient in the ACC. That's a problem.
Now, VT is arguably the best shooting team in the country. And they will be damn tough to beat in Cassel Coliseum. But shooting doesn't always travel, especially when you are playing 3 games in one week against top 50 teams.
As for depth, they play 6 guys 50% or more of the minutes and a 7th guy at 42%. Falls off quickly after that. So basically 7, maybe 7.5 deep. If they can stay 100% healthy the entire ACC grind, that's probably enough. But that's a big IF.
Why do you keep saying VT is the best offense in the ACC? I don't get it.
They obviously "outscore" people in the general sense of the phrase. When the name of the game is score more points than the opponent, then you know what you have to do. That said, there are two ways to approach that.
1. Outscore your opponent by being superior defensively, and capitalizing on defensive mistakes while on offense. It's wildly impressive that they can do this as much as they do. This is who Virginia is. Game in and game out, they say that they're going to grind teams down, and strike when a team's focus is lost (which typically happens in college because college players have a shit ton of mental lapses).
2. Win a shootout. There are games, and it doesn't matter who the team is, that a team has to step up on the offensive end because their defense can't slow a team down. This is not Virginia. Virginia can't beat good offensive teams in 75, 80, 85 point games. There's a reason that teams like Duke wallop Virginia annually. Their players, and their offense is too advanced on that end for Virginia to stop, and Virginia doesn't have the offensive firepower to keep up. Virginia does the small things well offensively, but doing the small things without elite offensive talents to do those things, does not equate to elite offense. It equates to solid offense in the scheme of what you're trying to do.
In regards to your comment about depth, most teams run with a 7 man rotation. A lot of coaches like to whittle it down to that. There are very, very few truly deep teams that can trot out 8 or 9 players and see no drop in effectiveness, and expect to compete at a high level. I have no qualms about VT's depth.
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Because statistically, they ARE the best offense in the ACC, and the country. I'm not talking about KenPom rankings that are influenced by preseason expectations in every capacity, by Ken Pomeroy's own admission. KenPom is generally useless until late January/early February.
Offensive Efficiency: 1.237 points per possession (1st in the nation)
Team shooting Percentage: 55.3% (1st in the nation)
Effective FG Percentage: 64.2% (1st in the nation)
Team 3P Percentage: 46.8% (T-1st in the nation)
Team True Shooting Percentage: 134% (1st in the nation)
They're not just excellent at one thing, they're excellent at everything. Look at every other team in the ACC, they all appear to have some kind of offensive deficiency (even Duke), and there's really nothing that Virginia Tech can't do really, really well offensively).
Aside from stats, when you watch basketball, it's easy to tell what is a high quality offense and what isn't. They check all the boxes; offensive versatility, ball movement, passing, several effective ball handlers and shooters, takes efficient types of shots.
They are the best offensive team in the ACC, and probably the nation.
UVA is the slowest team in the country by like 2 possessions a game. Them scoring 80 points would be like 1.35 or 1.4 points per possession. That's a mighty tall task against elite teams. But that doesn't mean they aren't winning some games because of their O.
If they win a game 68-60 in a 54 possession game, that is UVA winning a shootout. Both teams over a point per possession and UVA doing more. That would be equivalent to a team winning 93-83 in a 75 possession game. Again, you seem to be equating "slow" with "bad offense."
Just this year, UVA beat VCU 76-67 in a 63 possession game. Last year was one of UVA's worst offenses under Tony Bennett, but two years ago they beat eventual national champ Villanova 86-75 in a 60 possession game. 1.43 points per possession. They also beat ND 77-66 in a 58 possession game and beat UNC 79-74 in a 66 possession game.
So no, I don't agree that UVA doesn't have the ability to outscore teams in a shootout (albeit, a low possession shootout).
The preseason stuff is pretty much washed out now. But you're overlooking strength of schedule and that's kind of important, no?
VT has an elite shooting team, no question about that. Probably the best shooting team in the country.
Their weakness on the offensive glass and less than ideal turnover percentage make their offense slightly less efficient than some others, at least according to the data. You can't just dismiss strength of schedule.
Look, I'll give you this. VT can be a top 4 team in the ACC. We haven't even really started conference play, who knows who gets hurt, suspended, whatever.
I just don't find it to be particularly likely, given their unbalanced schedule and the teams like Miami, UVA, UNC, and Duke at the top. Not to mention Louisville and ND.
I just don't find it to be particularly likely, given their unbalanced schedule and the teams like Miami, UVA, UNC, and Duke at the top. Not to mention Louisville and ND.
That's literally all I'm saying. They CAN be a top 4 team in the ACC. Was my entire premise in this discussion.
It's really not washed out. Like I said, usually late January, early February is when it gets completely washed out. This is per KenPom too, so this isn't some unfounded claim that I'm making. The guy who made it himself even claims that deficiency for his statistical model.
Also, I get the turnover percentage being an issue, but there are much worse, and they're making up for it in other ways offensively. They have the 12th highest assist-to-turnover ratio in the nation (3rd behind Notre Dame and Duke in the ACC), and they're tied for 3rd in the nation in team-assists per game (T-1st in the ACC with Duke).
On top of that, despite the turnover percentage, they're still better in that category than:
North Carolina
Louisville
NC State
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Pitt
Georgia Tech
Boston College
That is, obviously, from the ACC alone.
Who would you rank ahead of them? Hell, this is a solid debate, I'm really enjoying it. I'm curious to hear who others would have ahead of them, and why.
Virginia Tech has no depth inside and it'll be a killer against the bigger ACC teams. Duke/VT will be fun though. Bagley and Carter will combine for 75 and 40 while VT's guards might hit 25 threes.
Pretty much my line of thinking. I think that's gonna be an excellent game. Shit ton of points scored there.
For me, I'm pretty well betting on Duke and Miami being ahead of VA Tech. I think they lock up the top 2 spots in that conference. I think North Carolina and VA Tech battle it out for the 3rd spot, with the lesser of the two coming out in 4th. I think Virginia struggles a bit more this season, because there are 5 really good offensive teams in the ACC between VA Tech, Duke, Notre Dame, Miami, and North Carolina, and I don't like their defense the fair well against those teams, nor do I buy their offense having the ability to win a shootout with those teams. I'm seeing Notre Dame coming in fifth, Virginia in 6th, Louisville behind Virginia in 7th (they have the personnel to be a top 3 tteam in the league, but the coaching isn't there, and Virginia is Louisville's kryptonite). I'll take Syracuse ahead of Clemson, but at that point, does anybody truly give a shit? I'd wager not.
Your just over pumping the team Kentucky beat today, they are a good team, nothing more.
Lol, no. I'm just telling ya what I see. They play a damn pretty brand of basketball, and you're not doing much to refute what I'm saying. I'm not saying anything that should be considered egregious. Like I said, I like the discussion, but I want it to have some substance too. As it stands, they're the best offensive team in the nation, and I feel like having the best offense in the nation is good enough to make you top 4 in the ACC. That's not exactly a far-fetched thing to say.
