OT 2020 NFL general discussion thread.

[JimboBBN]

Let’s be honest, if Brady had half the talent on offense Mahomes has had is short career, he would probably have 10 rings at this point. This is not a hill a would want to die on as a Chiefs fan in this argument. There’s no question Mahomes has had more to work with than Brady ever has, with MAYBE the exception of this season. And I would still give the edge to Mahomes as far as weapons.

 

[dtgold88]

Nobody said he wouldn't score some points. I said Mahomes' team would score more.

So you think Baker could sit out almost half the game and his team would still win in that scenario? This is good stuff.

I'm sure Mahomes would struggle mightily with a much better offensive line and the best running game in the league. He definitely wouldn't know how to get the ball to Kareem Hunt.

did you not catch the game? Let me fill you in. Baker was under constant pressure and his receivers got no separation.

 

[dtgold88]

Every QB deserves some credit for a win. But I give more credit to the defense and the weapons. I don't know what's so controversial about saying that 43-yr-old Brady is no longer a world-beater. Did anyone see what he looked like last year? People thought he was going to hang it up. Even at times this year he looked rough. I remember hearing a stat that he was something like 0-25 on passes over 20 yards at one point.

His receiving corps was ranked first in the league by PFF before they even added Brown, his O-line is one of the best in the league, and his defense held a team that normally scores 30+ to 9. But sure.....they couldn't have done it with anyone else.

Love the comparisons to Winston and Newton btw. Well, no shit he's better than them. But their situations were also much worse.

Their situations actually were not "much worse".....other than being them and not Brady.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Let’s be honest, if Brady had half the talent on offense Mahomes has had is short career, he would probably have 10 rings at this point. This is not a hill a would want to die on as a Chiefs fan in this argument. There’s no question Mahomes has had more to work with than Brady ever has, with MAYBE the exception of this season. And I would still give the edge to Mahomes as far as weapons.

How could anybody watch the SB and say with a straight face that Mahomes had more to work with that day than Brady? Funny stuff. Mahomes ran 497 yards on dropbacks. Did Brady even move? He also didn't have to squeeze a single pass into a tight window.

If you want to argue that Mahomes had more to work with the first time they played, that's at least plausible. He had a healthier line and a healthy Watkins. Plus he was healthy. And he threw for 462 and 3 TDs w/ 0 picks.

Were you not following football in 2007? Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson and Kevin Faulk. My, the cupboard was bare. He must have definitely won it that year, right? Oops.

Edelman, Gronkowski and James White was a pretty shitty combo too. Not sure how he won anything with those schmucks.

And sure, he's had great offensive lines and Mahomes' lines have ranged from average to terrible. And he's had defenses his entire career that are far superior to anything that Mahomes has had, especially that 2018 KC D that allowed 54 points to the Rams team that the Patriots held to 3 in the Super Bowl (Mahomes, btw, put up 51 on their D while Brady managed 13). But hey, defense isn't a factor.

 

[ExitFlagger]

You can spin it however you like and exaggerate things. I don’t think anyone would argue with you Kansas City was healthier in that game. However, injuries happen to every team. And we could go back to every Super Bowl ever and there will be significant injury for at least one team. That’s just football. A few injuries to your offensive line doesn’t erase a 22 point butt kicking.

I just find it interesting Mahomes can beat everyone but Brady. The Patriots were a trash roster last time they played in the post season and what happened?

I'm the one spinning here? That's funny.

I didn't exaggerate anything. In fact, I gave KC one more starter than Ryan Clark did.

Not sure what's so interesting about Brady winning those games. He had by far the better defense both nights (especially 2018--Mahomes had the worst D in the league), better offensive lines, and plenty of weapons. Especially this year.

Mahomes has also beaten him twice.

 

[bMORE607]

 

[JimboBBN]

How could anybody watch the SB and say with a straight face that Mahomes had more to work with that day than Brady? Funny stuff. Mahomes ran 497 yards on dropbacks. Did Brady even move? He also didn't have to squeeze a single pass into a tight window.

If you want to argue that Mahomes had more to work with the first time they played, that's at least plausible. He had a healthier line and a healthy Watkins. Plus he was healthy. And he threw for 462 and 3 TDs w/ 0 picks.

Were you not following football in 2007? Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson and Kevin Faulk. My, the cupboard was bare. He must have definitely won it that year, right? Oops.

Edelman, Gronkowski and James White was a pretty shitty combo too. Not sure how he won anything with those schmucks.

And sure, he's had great offensive lines and Mahomes' lines have ranged from average to terrible. And he's had defenses his entire career that are far superior to anything that Mahomes has had, especially that 2018 KC D that allowed 54 points to the Rams team that the Patriots held to 3 in the Super Bowl (Mahomes, btw, put up 51 on their D while Brady managed 13). But hey, defense isn't a factor.

Yikes. You keep bringing up this one game but it’s an insanely small sample size for Brady’s career and at this point even Patrick’s. You are so butthurt that your team was injured you can’t see straight. Injuries happen in football, and if you don’t like that, maybe try a new sport. Ice skating may be more up your alley. You would literally have to be on drugs to say for the majority of their careers, Brady has had the supporting cast Mahomes has. It’s just not even in the realm of being debatable. You citing Randy Moss for a year and a half is proof of that. Mahomes has had the best offensive talent around him since he went under center for the first time. Brady had Julian freaking Edelman as his top target when he won a super bowl.

I get it. You’re bent out of shape because y’all got anally probed by the GOAT. It happens. It happens to a lot of great teams and quarterbacks. He went through Brees, Rogers, and Mahomes, all with loaded teams, in four weeks. And more than likely he will be even better next season, when he has a full off season to prepare and experience in the new system. Think about that, it has to eat you alive, I bet.

You will settle down in the coming weeks. The Chiefs will be good for a long time, in a league that’s almost impossible to be consistently good in. Don’t let Tom Brady keep you up at night.

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

Yikes. You keep bringing up this one game but it’s an insanely small sample size for Brady’s career and at this point even Patrick’s. You are so butthurt that your team was injured you can’t see straight. Injuries happen in football, and if you don’t like that, maybe try a new sport. Ice skating may be more up your alley. You would literally have to be on drugs to say for the majority of their careers, Brady has had the supporting cast Mahomes has. It’s just not even in the realm of being debatable. You citing Randy Moss for a year and a half is proof of that. Mahomes has had the best offensive talent around him since he went under center for the first time. Brady had Julian freaking Edelman as his top target when he won a super bowl.

I get it. You’re bent out of shape because y’all got anally probed by the GOAT. It happens. It happens to a lot of great teams and quarterbacks. He went through Brees, Rogers, and Mahomes, all with loaded teams, in four weeks. And more than likely he will be even better next season, when he has a full off season to prepare and experience in the new system. Think about that, it has to eat you alive, I bet.

You will settle down in the coming weeks. The Chiefs will be good for a long time, in a league that’s almost impossible to be consistently good in. Don’t let Tom Brady keep you up at night.

“Anally probed by the GOAT”. 😂

 

[ExitFlagger]

Yikes. You keep bringing up this one game but it’s an insanely small sample size for Brady’s career and at this point even Patrick’s. You are so butthurt that your team was injured you can’t see straight. Injuries happen in football, and if you don’t like that, maybe try a new sport. Ice skating may be more up your alley. You would literally have to be on drugs to say for the majority of their careers, Brady has had the supporting cast Mahomes has. It’s just not even in the realm of being debatable. You citing Randy Moss for a year and a half is proof of that. Mahomes has had the best offensive talent around him since he went under center for the first time. Brady had Julian freaking Edelman as his top target when he won a super bowl.

I get it. You’re bent out of shape because y’all got anally probed by the GOAT. It happens. It happens to a lot of great teams and quarterbacks. He went through Brees, Rogers, and Mahomes, all with loaded teams, in four weeks. And more than likely he will be even better next season, when he has a full off season to prepare and experience in the new system. Think about that, it has to eat you alive, I bet.

You will settle down in the coming weeks. The Chiefs will be good for a long time, in a league that’s almost impossible to be consistently good in. Don’t let Tom Brady keep you up at night.

You do understand that there are 22 starters + many other players that contribute, right?
Why you focus so much on Kelce and Hill is a mystery. Let’s also not forget that those two weren’t nearly as highly regarded before Mahomes.

Brady’s had nothing but good to great defenses and good to great pass protection his entire career. Usually a very good run game too. Ignoring that is strange.

Let’s also not forget that Brady would’ve been going home after throwing his third pick in 2018, if not for Ford being lined up a few inches offsides.

Everyone saw the flurry of penalties this year. 120 penalty yards in an event known for few penalties?

Brady rec’d 27 PI calls this year. KC 4. Spin that one.

He’s gotten the calls from day one, going back to the tuck rule. It goes beyond Jordan treatment. Have you ever seen a crucial call go against Brady?

 

[ExitFlagger]

did you not catch the game? Let me fill you in. Baker was under constant pressure and his receivers got no separation.

LOL. Did you watch the SB? That’s constant pressure. Chiefs-Browns? Uh, no. 5 pressures, 1 sack. Which backs up what I saw. In fact, I just rewatched some clips, and he had all day to throw on most plays.

It probably seemed like constant pressure to you since you have literally the best line in the game and you were missing a tackle that day, but not even close.

So you think that Mayfield wins if they switched places and he sat out most of the second half, huh? Priceless.

 

[Villian07]

And probably the only guy on the planet that could have led a franchise like Tampa Bay to the Super Bowl.

well except Brad Johnson of course.

 

[JimboBBN]

well except Brad Johnson of course.

Brad Johnson and a top 5 NFL defense in history. Because those grow on trees

 

[Villian07]

They went 7-9 last year and added Brady, Joe Haeg, Lsean McCoy, and Leonard Fournette from free agency. They also traded for Gronk (who was out of football last year) and Steve McLendon. They were 11-5 for the year.

Stop crying and acting like they are going to be remembered as one of he best teams ever. They were an above average team that caught fire late.

Im asking bc I don’t know, were suh and JPP there last year?

As for your second paragraph, in their prime or not, brady, suh, JPP, brown and gronk are all sure fire hall of famers and guys like Evans, Godwin, fournette, Barrett, White, and Winfield certainly have the potential but still obv a long ways off.

3-4 of those young guys go on to have HOF careers we are looking at 10+ HOF on one roster. Again I understand not in their prime, but AB and Gronk looked damn good Sunday so it’s hardly just holding a clipboard waiting on a ring.

 

[bMORE607]

Im asking bc I don’t know, were suh and JPP there last year?

As for your second paragraph, in their prime or not, brady, suh, JPP, brown and gronk are all sure fire hall of famers and guys like Evans, Godwin, fournette, Barrett, White, and Winfield certainly have the potential but still obv a long ways off.

3-4 of those young guys go on to have HOF careers we are looking at 10+ HOF on one roster. Again I understand not in their prime, but AB and Gronk looked damn good Sunday so it’s hardly just holding a clipboard waiting on a ring.

They’re not an all time team no matter how much you guys cry about it. HoF is a career achievement. The facts are KC was the loaded team, they had the most All Pros. And yes Suh and JPP were there last year.

 

[GhostOf301]

Would we be talking about how loaded TB is with talent if Winston was their QB?

I don't remember anyone talking about how they underachieved last year.

 

[dukedevilz]

Accurate.

 

[bMORE607]

Would we be talking about how loaded TB is with talent if Winston was their QB?

I don't remember anyone talking about how they underachieved last year.

They can't process getting their shit pushed in because it hasn't happened to them in like 3 years, and for some reason they think they're going to get sympathy here. Laughing

 

[bMORE607]

LOL @ the Texans.

 

[JimboBBN]

Watson is next hopefully!

 

[ExitFlagger]

Would we be talking about how loaded TB is with talent if Winston was their QB?

I don't remember anyone talking about how they underachieved last year.

Yes. They'd be saying the team is loaded and Winston blew it again by throwing 5,000 INTs. TB averaged more yds/game and close to the same PPG with Winston and less weapons.

I'm trying to figure out why everyone dismisses the added pieces. They just scored all their TDs in the SB is all. And accounted for 224 of their 340 yards.

Their receiving corps was ranked #1 BEFORE adding Gronk and Brown. And their defense is far superior to last year's.

But sure....Brady carried a shit team full of past-their-prime scrubs to a championship against all odds. Let's go with that.

 

[JimboBBN]

But sure....Brady carried a shit team full of past-their-prime scrubs to a championship against all odds. Let's go with that.

No one itt has said that. Why is this so hard for you?

 

[GhostOf301]

That's not what I am going with. I am going with Brady led another team to a super bowl championship against fairly good odds and people are trying to discredit his role in the championship. It takes a balance of talent, luck and experience to win, no matter how good the QB is or how loaded the team is with talented players. I think the Rams would have won the super bowl with Brady. I don't think the Bucs would have won with Goff.

 

[bMORE607]

Tampa Bay was easily the most loaded 7-9 team ever last year.

The receiver core wasn't #1 before adding Gronk and Brown, it isn't even #1 after adding them. KC has the #1 Receiving core, you have 2 1st team All Pros. Stop trying to convince us KC isn't loaded, we're not fvcking rehatrded. The defense yards wise is about the same, and the massive drop in PPG given up is probably due to them having a drastic cut down on TOs.

 

[JimboBBN]

Every rational person itt: Tampa won this Super Bowl because Tom Brady had a great season and taught a pretty talented team how to win big games. He deserves a big share of the credit for doing something not a lot of others could do.

Baracus: STOP SAYING BRADY CARRIED A BAD TEAM AND ACCEPT MY TEAM ISNT AS LOADED

 

[bMORE607]

Every rational person itt: Tampa won this Super Bowl because Tom Brady had a great season and taught a pretty talented team how to win big games. He deserves a big share of the credit for doing something not a lot of others could do.

Baracus: STOP SAYING BRADY CARRIED A BAD TEAM AND ACCEPT MY TEAM ISNT AS LOADED

This is it, this is the winner right here. Winning games in September is one thing. Winning playoff games is entirely different. Shit this is why I view the Ravens season not as a complete and total failure, they won a playoff game. Very rarely do you see a team that hasn't been in the playoffs consistently, in the years prior, make a run to a SB win. TB is one of those teams because they had a guy at the helm that knew how to win.

 

[ExitFlagger]

No one itt has said that. Why is this so hard for you?

True....all you've said is that Brady carried the worst franchise in pro sports to a championship. 😂 😂

And it's been implied multiple times that Gronk, Brown, etc are past their prime and not difference-makers. 7-9 has also been mentioned 100 times.

I haven't said anything that hasn't been said by NFL experts like Simms.

Let me ask this....what is Brady missing on this roster? Where are the holes?

 

[JimboBBN]

True....all you've said is that Brady carried the worst franchise in pro sports to a championship. 😂 😂

I haven't said anything that hasn't been said by NFL experts like Simms.

Let me ask this....what is Brady missing on this roster? Where are the holes?

That’s not something I just made up... it is statistically the most losing franchise in pro sports.

Im not sure why you’re looking for a fight. My post above says they were a pretty talented team that needed winning experience and good QB play to be better. Brady is the best of the best in big games, so I’m not positive just any talented QB could come in and win a championship. Who could change a culture around like that in just a year? Not Rodgers. Maybe Mahomes down the road. But it’s a very small list.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Every rational person itt: Tampa won this Super Bowl because Tom Brady had a great season and taught a pretty talented team how to win big games. He deserves a big share of the credit for doing something not a lot of others could do.

Baracus: STOP SAYING BRADY CARRIED A BAD TEAM AND ACCEPT MY TEAM ISNT AS LOADED

First off, there are no rational arguments in this thread. All you guys want to do is zero in on the fact that Mahomes has Kelce and Hill, while ignoring every other position on each team. Nobody is willing to point out the obvious talent and balance on that TB roster and how different it is from last year.

And yeah, I disagree with the "something not a lot of others could do" part. I think there are plenty of NFL QBs who could have done it. Just because the 3rd-string QB behind a decomposing Drew Brees and Taysom freaking Hill couldn't take a lesser version of the team far means nothing about this year.

Is Tampa's defense not far better than last year's? Did that not play a massive role in the SB? Did their new weapons not score all their TDs in the SB?

 

[ExitFlagger]

That’s not something I just made up... it is statistically the most losing franchise in pro sports.

Im not sure why you’re looking for a fight. My post above says they were a pretty talented team that needed winning experience and good QB play to be better. Brady is the best of the best in big games, so I’m not positive just any talented QB could come in and win a championship. Who could change a culture around like that in just a year? Not Rodgers. Maybe Mahomes down the road. But it’s a very small list.

Give me a break. The Chiefs went from a 2-win team with the #1 pick to 11 wins overnight by adding Alex freaking Smith. And they didn't sign a bunch of talented FAs like Tampa.

Last year, Brady had a defense that allowed 14 ppg and couldn't beat a Titans team with a garbage defense and an average QB at home.

 

[bMORE607]

Give me a break. The Chiefs went from a 2-win team with the #1 pick to 11 wins overnight by adding Alex freaking Smith. And they didn't sign a bunch of talented FAs like Tampa.

Last year, Brady had a defense that allowed 14 ppg and couldn't beat a Titans team with a garbage defense and an average QB at home.

You forgot to mention you also hired a HOF coach in Andy Reid that year, so I would say that's a pretty big FA add.

 

[JimboBBN]

Give me a break. The Chiefs went from a 2-win team with the #1 pick to 11 wins overnight by adding Alex freaking Smith. And they didn't sign a bunch of talented FAs like Tampa.

Last year, Brady had a defense that allowed 14 ppg and couldn't beat a Titans team with a garbage defense and an average QB at home.

The Titans that went to the AFC title game and returned to the playoffs this year? I want whatever you’re smoking. Laughing

I’m glad you brought up his New England team last season. I’m sure he really misses throwing to a broken Julian Edelman and drugged out Josh Gordon.

 

[ExitFlagger]

That's not what I am going with. I am going with Brady led another team to a super bowl championship against fairly good odds and people are trying to discredit his role in the championship. It takes a balance of talent, luck and experience to win, no matter how good the QB is or how loaded the team is with talented players. I think the Rams would have won the super bowl with Brady. I don't think the Bucs would have won with Goff.

You don't think Goff could have scored 10 points or more in that offense? Especially if he's set up twice by penalties?

 

[bMORE607]

Oh God yes let's start blaming the officials now.

 

[GhostOf301]

You don't think Goff could have scored 10 points or more in that offense? Especially if he's set up twice by penalties?

I don't think Goff would have led them to the super bowl, winning 3 playoff games on the road. Two of them against legitimate contenders.

 

[dtgold88]

Similar team?

even without Brady, they added Suh, AB, Gronk, Fournette, not sure on JPP. I know those guys aren’t in their prime sans fournette, but they are all hall of gamers sans fournette and they aren’t exactly over the hill either, based on their play.

Im not even trying to shit on Brady, his history speaks for itself, but TB added a bounty over the offseason and during the season.

a guy who had been retired 2 years, a WR really no one wanted and those that have could not wait to get rid of and a RB whose own team did not even extend the 5th year option is "a bounty"?

 

[dtgold88]

Their team is loaded from top to bottom. No team that isn’t chock full of talent is going to do that to the Chiefs. Mahomes had never lost by more than one score and almost never loses period.

They have the best receiving corps in the league. Top 5 O-line. Solid RBs. Great DL. Great LBs. Solid secondary.

Mahomes and a number of QBs would murder teams with that roster.

Call him the GOAT, fine. But let’s call it what it is. He’s an immobile 43-yr-old with declining arm strength who wormed his way into the perfect situation.

and here's a flash.....many QBs would have success on KC. see how that works?

 

[dtgold88]

Salty Brady haters will salty Brady hate. All good guy, maybe next year you guys can get the Brady monkey off your back.

Right? I don't think anyone here thinks Brady was the sole reason Tampa won and knows the D played a huge role (maybe more than Brady).

 

[ExitFlagger]

The Titans that went to the AFC title game and returned to the playoffs this year? I want whatever you’re smoking. Laughing

I’m glad you brought up his New England team last season. I’m sure he really misses throwing to a broken Julian Edelman and drugged out Josh Gordon.

Yeah....poor guy only had a defense that allowed 14 ppg.

So he gets no blame for losing to the Titans and only scoring 13 on a weak D?

 

[dtgold88]

Yep. Chiefs are already the favorites, despite Brady having a lot more talent around him. That's what Vegas thinks of 43-year-old Brady.

Guess I just don't see why fans of other teams would adore Brady. Other than wanting to be affiliated with a winner, of course. The corny dad next door persona is a facade. He's an entitled whiner who points the finger at everyone but himself in the few moments that don't go his way. He taunts and brags and his camp puts out fake apologies to ensure his reputation stays pristine.

This is more an indictment of what Vegas thinks of people like you who will bet with their emotions over their brain.

 

[JimboBBN]

Yeah....poor guy only had a defense that allowed 14 ppg.

So he gets no blame for losing to the Titans and only scoring 13 on a weak D?

You’re putting words in my mouth. Never said he got no blame for the loss. Where is this debate going?