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OT 2020 NFL general discussion thread.

He won a super bowl with Julian Edelman as his number one receiver. This narrative he’s had so much help over the years is kept alive by people like you who despise the guy.

He's one of the best, but he doesn't get to 7 SBs without a LOT of crucial calls going his way and/or great defenses. Not even close.

We all saw how he looked last year with mediocre offensive talent. Any decent QB (who doesn't throw 30 INTs) could have taken this Tampa team far.
 
Brady took the worst franchise in pro sports and won them a championship. There’s no other way to spin it, he’s the greatest football player of all time. And he deserves the lions share of the credit for this super bowl.

Are you serious with this one?
 
He's one of the best, but he doesn't get to 7 SBs without a LOT of crucial calls going his way and/or great defenses. Not even close.

We all saw how he looked last year with mediocre offensive talent. Any decent QB (who doesn't throw 30 INTs) could have taken this Tampa team far.
Disagree. Mentality plays a huge part of this. And they didn’t have a championship mentality or know how to win before Brady taught them. Combine that with a pretty good season for a QB, set aside everything else. He was in the MVP race part of the year.
 
How could I not be? The same team went 7-9 last year. Did they magically get better over night? Brady brought winning culture and experience. Wasnt just his play on the football field. He taught Tampa how to win. And he obviously owns Mahomes.

"Worst franchise in pro sports" is completely ridiculous. Before the game, analysts were saying that only 5 Chiefs players would start for Tampa. They put together a superteam around him. His 43-year-old ass didn't carry anybody. They carried him. You don't throw 3 INTs in a half vs Aaron Rodgers and win without a great team around you.

"Obviously owns Mahomes" is funny too. If the two switched teams last night, the Buccaneers win 50-0 and Brady would probably be in the hospital right now. Trubisky would have won that game.
 
"Worst franchise in pro sports" is completely ridiculous. Before the game, analysts were saying that only 5 Chiefs players would start for Tampa. They put together a superteam around him. His 43-year-old ass didn't carry anybody. They carried him. You don't throw 3 INTs in a half vs Aaron Rodgers and win without a great team around you.

"Obviously owns Mahomes" is funny too. If the two switched teams last night, the Buccaneers win 50-0 and Brady would probably be in the hospital right now. Trubisky would have won that game.
Before this season Tampa had the worst winning percentage of any four of the major league teams. That qualifies for worst franchise in pro sports. Sorry you don’t like it.

lol at switching teams. All of a sudden Mahomes doesn’t have enough help? What, the best tight end in football, a top five wide receiver, and a top 11 defense weren’t enough to not get blown out? Stop.
 
Before this season Tampa had the worst winning percentage of any four of the major league teams. That qualifies for worst franchise in pro sports. Sorry you don’t like it.

lol at switching teams. All of a sudden Mahomes doesn’t have enough help? What, the best tight end in football, a top five wide receiver, and a top 11 defense weren’t enough to not get blown out? Stop.

Don’t forget a first round draft pick at rb as well

Big key last night obviously was KC missing their starting tackles / if situation was reverse game would look much different of course- everyone remembers Rimmers vs Denver five years ago in the Super Bowl as well.
 
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Before this season Tampa had the worst winning percentage of any four of the major league teams. That qualifies for worst franchise in pro sports. Sorry you don’t like it.

lol at switching teams. All of a sudden Mahomes doesn’t have enough help? What, the best tight end in football, a top five wide receiver, and a top 11 defense weren’t enough to not get blown out? Stop.

Mahomes had his worst game ever, was running for his life on every play, and they still put up more yards than Tampa. They lost by that margin due to 120 penalty yards and two gifted TDs, plus a negated INT.

Again...what do you think happens if they switched places? Have you ever seen Brady against legitimate pressure? It's not pretty.

The Alex Smith-led Chiefs blew out two of Brady's Patriots teams. One far worse than last night and he had way less talent around him than Brady has now. I guess he owned Brady?

The Bucs' defense abused the Chiefs' backup line. That's the story of the game. Like I said, Brady might as well have been Trubisky.
 
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Good stuff from Baldinger. I'd love to see Brady make any of these plays. Blaming Mahomes for this is hilarious. His receivers dropped 3 TDs and let him down all night. And the blocking was the worst in SB history and one of the worst displays I've ever seen.

 
Good stuff from Baldinger. I'd love to see Brady make any of these plays. Blaming Mahomes for this is hilarious. His receivers dropped 3 TDs and let him down all night. And the blocking was the worst in SB history and one of the worst displays I've ever seen.

Mahomes has made some epic throws tonight that his receivers have either dropped or the defense made a great play. Mainly the receivers dropping passes.

Any jerk could see this. Sometimes I feel like I should be getting paid for this.

I agree that Brady was part of the reason, but not THE reason Tampa won. I also believe he deserves credit and as Jimbo has said, his experience with winning and leadership played just as big of a role as his skills on the field. There's nothing to take away from the man. He has won 7 out ot 10 super bowls and still gets the, "yeah but" from all the haters. I would put Steve Young against him talent wise and he had some great teams. Only one trip to the SB. Some players just win and make everyone around them winners.

Mahomes did step up and made some incredible attempts. As noted, multiple times he put the ball exactly where it needed to be, but either got let down by his receivers, or the defense made an excellent play. I think there were some momentum changing penalties that screwed them over as well. I will let you argue how bad the calls were. Not my fight.

The glory and the misery gets pinned on the QB's in these games, so people are going to look at Brady's 3 TDs and 0 INTs and give him all the credit and then look at Mahomes's 0 TDs and 2 INTs and give him the blame. But there's so much more than that. Call me an asshole, but I can say that even in a game that finished 31-9, that game was 2 or 3 plays away from being completely different.
 
Seemed like the game was won in the trenches. Mahomes ran for 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked. His line didn't do him any favors. I personally thought he resorted to scrambling a little too quickly, instead of staying in the pocket. Also, he held onto the ball for an awfully long time. I couldn't see the rest of the field, so perhaps they were just covered really well. To his credit, he can still throw the ball really well on the run - and some of his desperation throws were freakishly accurate.



 
Seemed like the game was won in the trenches. Mahomes ran for 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked. His line didn't do him any favors. I personally thought he resorted to scrambling a little too quickly, instead of staying in the pocket. Also, he held onto the ball for an awfully long time. I couldn't see the rest of the field, so perhaps they were just covered really well. To his credit, he can still throw the ball really well on the run - and some of his desperation throws were freakishly accurate.




3 dropped TDs that would have been highlight reel plays. Could have been a very different narrative.
 
3 dropped TDs that would have been highlight reel plays. Could have been a very different narrative.

Could have been, sure. But, two of those throws were serious desperation attempts. The one in the back end zone is a very, very difficult pass to grab. The pass that hit his helmet easily could have been caught. But, I think his view may have been obstructed a bit by the defender. Not sure what the third dropped td pass was?

Bucs were also fairly conservative with their play-calling in the 4th Quarter. With a three touchdown lead, they seemed more interested in running the ball and milking the clock.
 
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Could have been, sure. But, two of those throws were serious desperation attempts. The one in the back end zone is a very, very difficult pass to grab. The pass that hit his helmet easily could have been caught. But, I think his view may have been obstructed a bit by the defender. Not sure what the third dropped td pass was?

Bucs were also fairly conservative with their play-calling in the 4th Quarter. With a three touchdown lead, they seemed more interested in running the ball and milking the clock.

I wasn't counting the one in the back of the endzone. That wasn't even catchable inbounds.

Tyreek Hill had a bomb go right through his hands early on. Robinson dropped one in the endzone in the 2nd half. Then the one that hit Williams in the helmet.

Kelce also dropped a perfect throw that would have extended a drive early on.
 
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I wasn't counting the one in the back of the endzone. That wasn't even catchable inbounds.

Tyreek Hill had a bomb go right through his hands early on. Robinson dropped one in the endzone in the 2nd half. Then the one that hit Williams in the helmet.

Kelce also dropped a perfect throw that would have extended a drive early on.

That is pretty crazy. Sad. One drop can completely change the complexion. Three? Yikes.
 
This is so true....and put Baker in the LJ category. Baker actually played pretty well in a monsoon against LV but his D could not get off the field and his receivers couldn't catch. Most blamed Baker for the loss.

was playing with his 3rd string RT and 5th string guard against arguably a better Steeler D and went up and down the field on them.
 
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Yep. Brady was just along for the ride. Hell, they have so much talent around him, they overcame 3 INTs in a half against a damn good GB team.

Not sure why anyone but NE/Tampa fans would root for that finger-pointing, entitled d-bag. He gets every call and always has.

Just once I'd like to see him behind a bad or even mediocre line. I've seen the rare instances when teams were able to get a decent amount of pressure on him. It's not pretty. And if anyone does get near him, prepare for the flagfest. My favorite was Chris Jones' roughing the passer call two years ago for tapping his shoulder pad.
He's not often behind a bad or even mediocre line because of something LeCharles Bentley once said.......something like "want a good O-line? Find a smart QB who can make quick decisions".
 
Well they beat us with red zone defense and the TD right before the half, which was garbage as the int that led to it was obvious holding/PI.

Brady is still really good imo, but yea doesn’t hurt when u have a pro bowler at over half the positions.
I mean, Gronk is far from his days of being a PB player. AB meant so much they got through their other playoff games without him. Fournette didn't even have his 5th year option picked up.

Evans a perennial PB player, sure.
 
Brady took the worst franchise in pro sports and won them a championship. There’s no other way to spin it, he’s the greatest football player of all time. And he deserves the lions share of the credit for this super bowl.
I'd say the D deserves as much credit, but those trying to take away from Brady's achievement have an agenda.
 
He won a super bowl with Julian Edelman as his number one receiver. This narrative he’s had so much help over the years is kept alive by people like you who despise the guy.
You'd think they added 2017 Gronk, AB and Fournette, too.
 
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He's one of the best, but he doesn't get to 7 SBs without a LOT of crucial calls going his way and/or great defenses. Not even close.

We all saw how he looked last year with mediocre offensive talent. Any decent QB (who doesn't throw 30 INTs) could have taken this Tampa team far.
did ya catch how far NE got without him?
 
Mahomes had his worst game ever, was running for his life on every play, and they still put up more yards than Tampa. They lost by that margin due to 120 penalty yards and two gifted TDs, plus a negated INT.

Again...what do you think happens if they switched places? Have you ever seen Brady against legitimate pressure? It's not pretty.

The Alex Smith-led Chiefs blew out two of Brady's Patriots teams. One far worse than last night and he had way less talent around him than Brady has now. I guess he owned Brady?

The Bucs' defense abused the Chiefs' backup line. That's the story of the game. Like I said, Brady might as well have been Trubisky.
OK...and what happens if Baker and Mahomes switch places when they played? Mahomes had all day to throw and was throwing to wide open receivers. Baker under constant pressure and had to squeeze in darts to blanketed WRs. Could say the same of Allen and Mahomes.

See how that works? are ya saying Mahomes cannot function when his receivers are not running free and he faces some pressure?
 
Will add didn't help his team when Reid reminded us what a disaster he can be with clock management. someone needed to tell him, "uh, Andy, we are getting a gift here and maybe we ought to let them take it to the half."
 
did ya catch how far NE got without him?

A million Covid opt-outs probably had something to do with that. Their defense allowed 8 more ppg this year and a lot more yards.

The Chiefs had won 25 out of 26 games going into the SB, yet analysts were saying that only 5 Chiefs would start for Tampa. But sure....Tampa was a talent-depleted team carried by 43-yr-old Brady. Let's go with that. I don't think any other QB on the planet is capable of standing still in the pocket, surveying the field for 6 seconds and then tossing 10 yds to a wide open receiver.
 
OK...and what happens if Baker and Mahomes switch places when they played? Mahomes had all day to throw and was throwing to wide open receivers. Baker under constant pressure and had to squeeze in darts to blanketed WRs. Could say the same of Allen and Mahomes.

See how that works? are ya saying Mahomes cannot function when his receivers are not running free and he faces some pressure?

Ha....comparing the pressure Mayfield faced in that game to what Mahomes just faced is hilarious. Not in the same galaxy. You're telling me that Mahomes doesn't win that game if he QBs the Browns and Mayfield goes down early in the 3rd quarter? LOL. Yes. He wins easily. As long as there aren't 50 dropped passes.

Mahomes functions pretty damn well under pressure. The offensive line had similar issues vs the Saints and he still put up 30+ and won. This time the receivers couldn't catch the ball. Several dropped TDs, 120 penalty yards, and a constant swarm is a little too much to overcome.
 
Anybody questioning Brady and his accomplishments is a fool imo. Guys get lucky for a yr or two. Brady has done it for a lifetime. What’s a guy gotta do to convince even the peons that he might just be a great football player. I’m a huge chiefs fan ....and nothing in my fandom can take anything away from what Brady did. A retired and beat up gronk...an aging and 3rd last chance AB. A team that wentv7-9 last year. Brady walks the walk. Rarely take the talk. Literally spreads the praise every which way from Sunday ....and derelicts hate on him. No issues off the field, family man, ducking 43 yrs old. And people talk shit.
 
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Ryan Clark is a high functioning rehtard. PFF had the top 15 players in the SB and 10 were from Tampa, that’s what you’re referring too. KC got annihilated, it happens.

Clark was probably close to the truth. Especially with the injuries on the O-line. As gaudy as the Chiefs' record has been, they don't have a loaded roster like Tampa's. They'd probably have about 3 players on each side of the ball that would start for Tampa Bay. One of those is Mahomes.
 
Clark was probably close to the truth. Especially with the injuries on the O-line. As gaudy as the Chiefs' record has been, they don't have a loaded roster like Tampa's. They'd probably have about 3 players on each side of the ball that would start for Tampa Bay. One of those is Mahomes.
RollLaughLaughing
 
Anybody questioning Brady and his accomplishments is a fool imo. Guys get lucky for a yr or two. Brady has done it for a lifetime. What’s a guy gotta do to convince even the peons that he might just be a great football player. I’m a huge chiefs fan ....and nothing in my fandom can take anything away from what Brady did. A retired and beat up gronk...an aging and 3rd last chance AB. A team that wentv7-9 last year. Brady walks the walk. Rarely take the talk. Literally spreads the praise every which way from Sunday ....and derelicts hate on him. No issues off the field, family man, ducking 43 yrs old. And people talk shit.

I don't think anybody's questioning Brady's overall accomplishments. But has he gotten lucky in recent years? Yes.

Let's rewind to 2018. Trailing by 4 with under a minute left in the AFCC, Brady throws his 3rd INT of the night, but it's negated because a LB was lined up a few inches offsides. Goes on to win the SB despite only scoring 13 points, because his defense holds the opponent to 3.

The next season he has the best defense in the league (best scoring defense by a wide margin) and he loses the first playoff game to a Titans team with no defense. Scored 13 again.

Next he finds himself in Tampa Bay with a group of WRs that were being called the best in the league. Then he adds Gronk and Antonio Brown. And as usual he has a loaded defense. The media says he's "rejuvenated!" He wins the NFCC in Green Bay despite three INTs in the 2nd half. Then he throws for 200 yards in the SB, gets 120 penalty yards, and watches as his defense becomes the first to ever hold Mahomes to single digits.

Bringing up the 7-9 record is just lazy. Their offense put up more yards last year with fewer weapons and a QB who was NO's 3rd-stringer this season. And their defense went from terrible to great. Not sure what Tom had to do with that.

He hasn't been a world-beater in recent years but he still gets all the credit.
 
A million Covid opt-outs probably had something to do with that. Their defense allowed 8 more ppg this year and a lot more yards.

The Chiefs had won 25 out of 26 games going into the SB, yet analysts were saying that only 5 Chiefs would start for Tampa. But sure....Tampa was a talent-depleted team carried by 43-yr-old Brady. Let's go with that. I don't think any other QB on the planet is capable of standing still in the pocket, surveying the field for 6 seconds and then tossing 10 yds to a wide open receiver.
TB had a similar team last year and won 9 games. Maybe because they had a QB who liked to complete passes to the other team?

FYI, no one called TB talent deprived.

But you go with NE falling on their asses because of Covid.

Ya gotta love this forum.
 
Ha....comparing the pressure Mayfield faced in that game to what Mahomes just faced is hilarious. Not in the same galaxy. You're telling me that Mahomes doesn't win that game if he QBs the Browns and Mayfield goes down early in the 3rd quarter? LOL. Yes. He wins easily. As long as there aren't 50 dropped passes.

Mahomes functions pretty damn well under pressure. The offensive line had similar issues vs the Saints and he still put up 30+ and won. This time the receivers couldn't catch the ball. Several dropped TDs, 120 penalty yards, and a constant swarm is a little too much to overcome.
Yes, that is what I'm telling you. KCs receivers would continue to run free and Baker would hit them. He was hitting his own guys who got little to no separation under heavy pressure.
 
I don't think anybody's questioning Brady's overall accomplishments. But has he gotten lucky in recent years? Yes.

Let's rewind to 2018. Trailing by 4 with under a minute left in the AFCC, Brady throws his 3rd INT of the night, but it's negated because a LB was lined up a few inches offsides. Goes on to win the SB despite only scoring 13 points, because his defense holds the opponent to 3.

The next season he has the best defense in the league (best scoring defense by a wide margin) and he loses the first playoff game to a Titans team with no defense. Scored 13 again.

Next he finds himself in Tampa Bay with a group of WRs that were being called the best in the league. Then he adds Gronk and Antonio Brown. And as usual he has a loaded defense. The media says he's "rejuvenated!" He wins the NFCC in Green Bay despite three INTs in the 2nd half. Then he throws for 200 yards in the SB, gets 120 penalty yards, and watches as his defense becomes the first to ever hold Mahomes to single digits.

Bringing up the 7-9 record is just lazy. Their offense put up more yards last year with fewer weapons and a QB who was NO's 3rd-stringer this season. And their defense went from terrible to great. Not sure what Tom had to do with that.

He hasn't been a world-beater in recent years but he still gets all the credit.
Most happen to agree TB D deserves a ton of the credit for the win...but for some reason you don't want to credit Brady at all.

But you be you.
 
Yes, that is what I'm telling you. KCs receivers would continue to run free and Baker would hit them. He was hitting his own guys who got little to no separation under heavy pressure.

Nobody said he wouldn't score some points. I said Mahomes' team would score more.

So you think Baker could sit out almost half the game and his team would still win in that scenario? This is good stuff.

I'm sure Mahomes would struggle mightily with a much better offensive line and the best running game in the league. He definitely wouldn't know how to get the ball to Kareem Hunt.
 
Most happen to agree TB D deserves a ton of the credit for the win...but for some reason you don't want to credit Brady at all.

But you be you.

Every QB deserves some credit for a win. But I give more credit to the defense and the weapons. I don't know what's so controversial about saying that 43-yr-old Brady is no longer a world-beater. Did anyone see what he looked like last year? People thought he was going to hang it up. Even at times this year he looked rough. I remember hearing a stat that he was something like 0-25 on passes over 20 yards at one point.

His receiving corps was ranked first in the league by PFF before they even added Brown, his O-line is one of the best in the league, and his defense held a team that normally scores 30+ to 9. But sure.....they couldn't have done it with anyone else.

Love the comparisons to Winston and Newton btw. Well, no shit he's better than them. But their situations were also much worse.
 
TB had a similar team last year and won 9 games. Maybe because they had a QB who liked to complete passes to the other team?

FYI, no one called TB talent deprived.

But you go with NE falling on their asses because of Covid.

Ya gotta love this forum.
Similar team?

even without Brady, they added Suh, AB, Gronk, Fournette, not sure on JPP. I know those guys aren’t in their prime sans fournette, but they are all hall of gamers sans fournette and they aren’t exactly over the hill either, based on their play.

Im not even trying to shit on Brady, his history speaks for itself, but TB added a bounty over the offseason and during the season.
 
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