Works for me. But, if Bron doesn't fizzle out to end his career, twenty-five years from now this won't even be debated, imo.
Will Bron END UP the GOAT?
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Blake Bortles had a better year than Tom Brady because Bortles didn’t lose the Super Bowl
That’s one for the legacy right there. The Cavs are hot garbage without Bron.
Yup! Those still denying him are just not worthy of sports talk
LeBron is the GOAT and he had a great game..But that game was all about the Celtics shitting the bed. Just awful basketball.
Agree that was ugly. Might have been the only way Cavs win though. Had to muck it up and ride Bron (and Jeff fvcking Green lol).
Just imagine his chances in the Finals w Scottie and Grant or Rodman/Kukoc. I’d like em. Sadly, it’s George Hill and Jeff Green.
Let’s wait to see what he does in the finals before we rank him the best ever. If Warriors make the finals and the Cavs beat them, then he’s got a solid argument. He’s still the second best ever and his career is still going so he could eventually pass MJ. I just think people get caught in the moment and forget how damn good MJ was.
It's amazing what LeBron does. I've never seen a team and player where everything revolves 100% around that player. Wasn't the case with Jordan even from 86-89 when Jordan had no help. They still ran offense for others and Jordan dominated the shots not the ball. I'm not sure there wasn't a single possession in the 2nd half (outside of fast breaks) when LeBron didn't control the ball for at least 15 seconds. There were probably 10-15 possessions at least where no one else touched the ball that possession and LeBron dribbled for 20+ seconds and the majority of the time he scored. I've seen that at the college level (especially with mid-majors) but never seen that at the NBA level. Just incredible.
So what you are saying is, you are to young to recall the "Jordan Rules"? Or maybe even seen Michael play; not highlights. But play. I'm not sure there wasn't a junk defense Michael didn't see. And yet he still dominated.
An argument is there(for LBJ). But IMO, not a good enough one to overtake Jordan. I mean had MJ not walked away from hoops, his teams may have won 7 or 8 straight titles. MOF, they probably do. Very likely actually.
Yeh b/c guys like Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Kyrie Irivng and Kevin Love are/were just bad. Awful I tell ya...Winking
BTW....Pippen was ranked as the 23rd best player of All-time. Wade the 25th. Jordan never had a PG like Irving. Or a center like Love. He had BJ Armstrong and Bill Cartwright.
Just saying.....
I wasn't referring to never seeing someone as good as LeBron or Jordan or anyone. I actually think it is all pretty close in the GOAT talk between Jordan and LeBron. I judge big men in their own separate category as it's impossible to compare bigs with perimeter players. I would love to see what Jordan could do with the freedom of movement now a days and what he would do scoring the ball.
I was actually referring to never seeing a team have a player dominate the ball for 95%+ of a possession every play like Cavs consistently do. I've seen many players dominate the shots but never seen a team have a player dominate the ball like that.
The closest Jordan ever came to dominating the ball like that was in 1988 when he made his run for the MVP and ran the point for the Bulls most of that year. Jordan didn't even dominate the ball like that against LA in 91 when he averaged 11 apg for the series.
One areas of Jordan's game that gets overlooked was his ability to move without the ball. He was exceptional at that from the minute he stepped foot on an NBA court and much of that was because of Dean Smith and his style of offense relying on so much of ball movement to set up shota. Jordan was just as dangerous without dominating the ball because he could move and find the open spot and get himself squared up for the jumper and really didn't even need to have himself squared up.
You better tell your Jordan fanboys to stop saying that Jordan's Bulls would beat the 2016/17 Warriors team then. That GSW team last year is one of the best of all time. If Jordan's supporting cast is as bad as you insist, then they get swept by Curry/Durant/Green/Thompson
I think when you compare Jordan and LeBron it's a hard comparison. LeBron puts up amazing stats but he dominates the ball 90% of the possession. With how often everything comes off of his action and creation he should rack up incredible assist #s. Jordan never dominated the ball like that. Yeah he dominated shots but Jordan didn't dominate the ball having everything created off of him. Jordan moved without the ball looking for the open area and to receive the ball in the best scoring position and he either pulled up or used the drive right off the catch. Jordan could stand at the top of the key and dribble for 10 seconds but he rarely did that. Jordan went immediately on the attack.
2 different styles of play. LeBron plays a style that is going to rack of not only a lot of points but a lot of assists as well. Jordan played a style that racked up a lot of shots and buckets. Most of LeBron assist comes from him having great vision, being 6-8, and dominating the ball. Jordan's assists came mostly off of drives and dump offs or Jordan getting the ball in the post and popping it out to the shooter 5-10 feet away.
Defensively Jordan was better. LeBron has the awesome blocks that wow the fans and they are incredible plays. LeBron is a great defender when he wants to be but Jordan was better and more consistent defensively staying infront of his opponent. Wasn't until the 2nd 3peat that Jordan could play the role LeBron does now as the roaming defender and taking on the worst of the opponents perimeter players. Jordan was only able to then because of Pippen and Harper. Pippen was a top 5 perimeter defender like Jordan and Harper was a top 15 defender at the time. It allowed Jordan to conserve energy on the defensive end like LeBron does now.
2 different styles of play. LeBron plays a style that is going to rack of not only a lot of points but a lot of assists as well. Jordan played a style that racked up a lot of shots and buckets. Most of LeBron assist comes from him having great vision, being 6-8, and dominating the ball. Jordan's assists came mostly off of drives and dump offs or Jordan getting the ball in the post and popping it out to the shooter 5-10 feet away.
Defensively Jordan was better. LeBron has the awesome blocks that wow the fans and they are incredible plays. LeBron is a great defender when he wants to be but Jordan was better and more consistent defensively staying infront of his opponent. Wasn't until the 2nd 3peat that Jordan could play the role LeBron does now as the roaming defender and taking on the worst of the opponents perimeter players. Jordan was only able to then because of Pippen and Harper. Pippen was a top 5 perimeter defender like Jordan and Harper was a top 15 defender at the time. It allowed Jordan to conserve energy on the defensive end like LeBron does now.
Yeah Jordan had a solid supporting cast but most importantly it was greatly constructed as they all fit together well. Harper and Pippen allowed Jordan to rest on defense, brought shooters off the bench, kept strong rebounder as their big men, and had an offensive dynamo come off the bench. Idk who would win but that 96 Bulls team ability on defense would be one of the few teams that could stop that Warriors team but it would be a tall task.
I've heard someone say this before in the argument.
LeBron is probably the GOAT talent to play the game and the numbers back that up.
Jordan has probably had the GOAT career though with the 6-6 Finals and 6 Finals MVPs. Jordan's career is almost story book from the minute he stepped on an NBA court avg 29 per game as a rookie, to the 63 point performance to the struggles to get past the Pistons and then finally doing so, to defeating the guy who was considered the best (Magic) to reach the mountain top, to doing the 3peat which many considered at the time hardest to accomplish, to retiring and then coming back and winning 3 more and the 72 wins. Almost a perfect career when you look at it.
LeBron is probably the GOAT talent to play the game and the numbers back that up.
Jordan has probably had the GOAT career though with the 6-6 Finals and 6 Finals MVPs. Jordan's career is almost story book from the minute he stepped on an NBA court avg 29 per game as a rookie, to the 63 point performance to the struggles to get past the Pistons and then finally doing so, to defeating the guy who was considered the best (Magic) to reach the mountain top, to doing the 3peat which many considered at the time hardest to accomplish, to retiring and then coming back and winning 3 more and the 72 wins. Almost a perfect career when you look at it.
I’ll wait to pass judgment before LBJ loses yet another finals. He would have been better just losing last night. No one cares about second place unless you get you ass whipped.
Go back and read the thread. My God your takes are hot with this one.
Jordan played 17 regular season games and was bounced in the ‘94 playoffs. Jussayin.
If Bron had Scottie and Rodman and Kukoc and the rest, would you like their chances against GSW? I sure as hell would.
Nope. GSW best team of all time. LeBron had plenty of help in their win last night as well as Boston crapping themselves.
Jordan's usage was high because of the amount of shot attempts he had and a lot of action did come off of him out of the post. Especially when the Triangle offense was created. Jordan never dribbled the ball and ran the point basically though like LeBron does. Different actions from the players and different ways their usage racks up. Shots have a higher weight in how usage is calculated. Both are incredibly close in any GOAT discussion.
They definitely shot very poorly. The teflon coach will not take the blame like Lue would have had the Cavs dropped it again for poor shooting.
If you only give him a "solid argument" if they beat GS then you could not be more irrational in this discussion.
so never mind MJ came back and played the last 18 games and they couldn't get by a team who was swept in the Finals?
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