Who was the real goat these last 18 years

ThePhog08

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in 2003 the stars aligned

Bill Self got a blue blood position at Kansas
Roy Williams got his alma mater in UNC
Coach Cal , after getting Dejuan wagner started his foray into the WWW recruiting style at memphis
Coach was already at his peak as the goat up until that time but finally had blue blood competition year in and out (dean smith leaving, roy not at peak at ku and coaching changes at uk)

So since the coaching carousel of 2003 who , of these 4 , are actually the goat through the One and Done era , the fbi era, and now the portal era

Coach Cal

546 wins (181 wins at memphis from 03-04 to 08-09) ( 365 wins w/uk from 09-10 to now)
1 NCAA Title
5 final fours
5 Elite 8 finishes
2 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exit
2 NIT finishes
1 Losing season

Roy Williams

485 Wins
3 NCAA Titles
5 Final 4's
3 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exits
1 NIT
1 losing Season

Coach K

539 wins
2 NCAA TItles
4 Final Fours
3 Elite 8 Finishes
5 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
3 First Round Exits
1 NIT eligibility (declined invite)

Bill Self

556 Wins
2 NCAA Titles
4 Final 4's
5 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
2 FIrst Round Exits
0 NIT's or missed post seasons
Losing Seasons


So gang, in your humble opinions. From the shot heard around the world Cal to memphis, Self to KU, Roy to UNC and K being K still, 03-04 to 21-22 seasons who has been the GOAT in this time period?
 
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Montana81

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That 10 year stretch from 2006-2015 I would have said Cal. 8 E8’s 5 final fours. 3 title appearances and a ship.

But if you extend it to the last 18 seasons i’m going

1 Roy
2 Self
3 K
4 Cal

Self has been remarkably consistent. Kansas hasn’t really had a bad season. They’re lowest seed during that time is what…4? 5? And more often than not they’ve been a 1 or a 2.

Roy’s just been better than any of them in March. I wouldn’t say he ever really choked at UNC. Something that has plagued all of Cal, K and Self during that time.
 

ExitFlagger

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That 10 year stretch from 2006-2015 I would have said Cal. 8 E8’s 5 final fours. 3 title appearances and a ship.

But if you extend it to the last 18 seasons i’m going

1 Roy
2 Self
3 K
4 Cal

Self has been remarkably consistent. Kansas hasn’t really had a bad season. They’re lowest seed during that time is what…4? 5? And more often than not they’ve been a 1 or a 2.

Roy’s just been better than any of them in March. I wouldn’t say he ever really choked at UNC. Something that has plagued all of Cal, K and Self during that time.

Roy did a good job in the tourney but he did lose a few games in the 2nd round as a heavy favorite.

One pet peeve of mine is that people tend to focus almost solely on how often a coach played to seed in the tourney. I don’t think he should just be given a pass for having a losing season, an NIT season, and several 6-8 seeds.
 

Montana81

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Roy did a good job in the tourney but he did lose a few games in the 2nd round as a heavy favorite.

One pet peeve of mine is that people tend to focus almost solely on how often a coach played to seed in the tourney. I don’t think he should just be given a pass for having a losing season, an NIT season, and several 6-8 seeds.

I’m trying to think of when UNC was a 1 seed and lost early as a heavy favorite and i’m drawing a blank.

I know they got beat by auburn in the s16 as a 1 seed. But Duke, Virginia and even Gonzaga were given better odds that year.

They got smoked by Texas A&M as a 10 loss 2 seed. But i think a lot of people knew they weren’t winning anything that year.

G’town in the E8 in 07. Florida was the heavy favorite to repeat though.

Kansas in the E8 in 2012. UNC was considered one of the top 2 teams most of that season. But they had 2 injured starters in that tournament as well.

And i don’t think you should get a pass on down seasons unless you’ve managed to win multiple titles. Roy Williams won 3 of them.

Im just not trading that resume for anyone else’s during that time.

I thought the order was pretty easy in the end. I think UNC is the clear #1. Kansas the clear #2 and so on. Cal’s lack of regular season consistency without having that 2nd title makes him an easy choice for 4th.
 

AWilli6995

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KU has more bad losses as a high seed than UNC. Roy went to 4 title games and won 3, all as a 1 seed. Yes he had a NIT season, a sub 500 season but when UNC was a favorite or close to it they delivered. To me a bad loss as a 1/2 seed is losing in the first weekend of the tournament, after that it's a crap shoot.
 
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ExitFlagger

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I’m trying to think of when UNC was a 1 seed and lost early as a heavy favorite and i’m drawing a blank.

I know they got beat by auburn in the s16 as a 1 seed. But Duke, Virginia and even Gonzaga were given better odds that year.

They got smoked by Texas A&M as a 10 loss 2 seed. But i think a lot of people knew they weren’t winning anything that year.

G’town in the E8 in 07. Florida was the heavy favorite to repeat though.

Kansas in the E8 in 2012. UNC was considered one of the top 2 teams most of that season. But they had 2 injured starters in that tournament as well.

And i don’t think you should get a pass on down seasons unless you’ve managed to win multiple titles. Roy Williams won 3 of them.

Im just not trading that resume for anyone else’s during that time.

I thought the order was pretty easy in the end. I think UNC is the clear #1. Kansas the clear #2 and so on. Cal’s lack of regular season consistency without having that 2nd title makes him an easy choice for 4th.

I'm saying they lost games they were heavily favored in. You made it sound like he always played to seed.

And if a multiple title winner gets a pass for losing seasons, NIT seasons and 8 seeds, then another multiple title winner should probably get a pass for solid seasons that end with an early loss.

Shit happens in a single elimination situation, but there's nothing flukey about losing all season long.
 

IUfanBorden

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KU has more bad losses as a high seed than UNC. Roy went to 4 title games and won 3, all as a 1 seed. Yes he had a NIT season, a sub 500 season but when UNC was a favorite or close to it they delivered. To me a bad loss as a 1/2 seed is losing in the first weekend of the tournament, after that it's a crap shoot.
Agree---Once you get to the SW 16, all bets are off....4-seeds aren't exactly chopped liver---then possibly a 2/3 waiting. Of course all is moot if things do not play to seed.
 

IUfanBorden

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in 2003 the stars aligned

Bill Self got a blue blood position at Kansas
Roy Williams got his alma mater in UNC
Coach Cal , after getting Dejuan wagner started his foray into the WWW recruiting style at memphis
Coach was already at his peak as the goat up until that time but finally had blue blood competition year in and out (dean smith leaving, roy not at peak at ku and coaching changes at uk)

So since the coaching carousel of 2003 who , of these 4 , are actually the goat through the One and Done era , the fbi era, and now the portal era

Coach Cal

546 wins (181 wins at memphis from 03-04 to 08-09) ( 365 wins w/uk from 09-10 to now)
1 NCAA Title
5 final fours
5 Elite 8 finishes
2 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exit
2 NIT finishes
1 Losing season

Roy Williams

485 Wins
3 NCAA Titles
5 Final 4's
3 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exits
1 NIT
1 losing Season

Coach K

539 wins
2 NCAA TItles
4 Final Fours
3 Elite 8 Finishes
5 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
3 First Round Exits
1 NIT eligibility (declined invite)

Bill Self

556 Wins
2 NCAA Titles
4 Final 4's
5 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
2 FIrst Round Exits
0 NIT's or missed post seasons
Losing Seasons


So gang, in your humble opinions. From the shot heard around the world Cal to memphis, Self to KU, Roy to UNC and K being K still, 03-04 to 21-22 seasons who has been the GOAT in this time period?
How did Duke decline an NIT invite? COVID? Use to be you had to accept/decline an NIT invite prior to the season.
 

FaithPlusOne

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How did Duke decline an NIT invite? COVID? Use to be you had to accept/decline an NIT invite prior to the season.
If I’m remembering correctly, they were playing in the ACC tournament and a bunch of their guys caught COVID. They weren’t going to be an at-large team anyway, but they came out and said their season was over. And that was that. I don’t remember if they ever officially got an NIT invite but they certainly would have.

I didn’t know you had to decline the invite before the season. I could have sworn Maryland declined some decades ago (yikes, I’m getting older) when they ended up on the wrong side of the bubble. Maybe they opted out before the season or maybe the rules have changed since.
 

IUfanBorden

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If I’m remembering correctly, they were playing in the ACC tournament and a bunch of their guys caught COVID. They weren’t going to be an at-large team anyway, but they came out and said their season was over. And that was that. I don’t remember if they ever officially got an NIT invite but they certainly would have.

I didn’t know you had to decline the invite before the season. I could have sworn Maryland declined some decades ago (yikes, I’m getting older) when they ended up on the wrong side of the bubble. Maybe they opted out before the season or maybe the rules have changed since.
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the NCAA changing the criteria, as well as declining/accpeting an invite, when they bought the rights to the NIT
 
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ThePhog08

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One thing I just caught is these stats give Self, K and Cal an advantage of 1 additional season since Roy didn't coach last year.

1 thing that stands out is Cal should have had a wins advantage due to memphis being in the crap CUSA for 4 years, but Self still has 10 more wins. That is impressive...

KU has not been below a 4 see with Self.
 

AWilli6995

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One thing I just caught is these stats give Self, K and Cal an advantage of 1 additional season since Roy didn't coach last year.

1 thing that stands out is Cal should have had a wins advantage due to memphis being in the crap CUSA for 4 years, but Self still has 10 more wins. That is impressive...

KU has not been below a 4 see with Self.



I wasn't counting last year and my take was with Self at the helm at KU. Also you have to include Cals win at Memphis and if you bring up the argument about CUSA you have to do the same with the Big 12. It was KU by a mile before Baylor and TT got good enough to challenge you.
 

toonces11

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I wasn't counting last year and my take was with Self at the helm at KU. Also you have to include Cals win at Memphis and if you bring up the argument about CUSA you have to do the same with the Big 12. It was KU by a mile before Baylor and TT got good enough to challenge you.
Hasnt the big 12 been rated one of the top connies via kenpom nearly every season?
 
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ExitFlagger

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I wasn't counting last year and my take was with Self at the helm at KU. Also you have to include Cals win at Memphis and if you bring up the argument about CUSA you have to do the same with the Big 12. It was KU by a mile before Baylor and TT got good enough to challenge you.

LOL. Jeez, man. I honestly can't believe you're comparing the Big 12 to a conference worse than Gonzaga's. The Big 12 disrespect is out of control. We're talking about a league that has probably been the best in the country the last 5 years or so, and is nearly always top 3.

There may not be any other historically great programs in the league, but there are always solid teams. In Self's first year, Ok St had a great team that went to the final four. Texas was really good in those days. Oklahoma had some really good years. Now it's Baylor and Tech. It goes in cycles. Every team but TCU has been to the Elite Eight at least once in that span, and 7 of the 10 have been to the final four in that span.
 

AWilli6995

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Hasnt the big 12 been rated one of the top connies via kenpom nearly every season?


It has but it's KU and Baylor are the only ones with the titles. Historically the ACC has been much better with more teams winning titles before expansion. Had KU been in any conference other than the Big 12 they wouldn't of won that many conference titles.
 

AWilli6995

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LOL. Jeez, man. I honestly can't believe you're comparing the Big 12 to a conference worse than Gonzaga's. The Big 12 disrespect is out of control. We're talking about a league that has probably been the best in the country the last 5 years or so, and is nearly always top 3.

There may not be any other historically great programs in the league, but there are always solid teams. In Self's first year, Ok St had a great team that went to the final four. Texas was really good in those days. Oklahoma had some really good years. Now it's Baylor and Tech. It goes in cycles. Every team but TCU has been to the Elite Eight at least once in that span, and 7 of the 10 have been to the final four in that span.



LOL, I know the Big 12 is better than the Big West or whatever the name of that conference is.
 

829305

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Roy is the answer, which most seem to agree. Crazy to think the Heels were better than the GOAT (sadly K is the GOAT) since Roy arrived at Chapel Hill. Should've come earlier. :)
 

ThePhog08

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I wasn't counting last year and my take was with Self at the helm at KU. Also you have to include Cals win at Memphis and if you bring up the argument about CUSA you have to do the same with the Big 12. It was KU by a mile before Baylor and TT got good enough to challenge you.
Okst, OU , Texas all went to FF's while Self was at KU. Iowa state had amazing seasons. Kstate went to 2 elite 8's. Mizzou was a 2 seed twice. Baylor was a multiple time 2/3 seed before 2021.

KU took out

Michael Beasley
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Buddy Hield
Trae Young
Marcus Smart

And many many more. The vast majority of the last 18 years the B12 had #1 RPI and SOS...

Your post is invalid
 

ExitFlagger

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It has but it's KU and Baylor are the only ones with the titles. Historically the ACC has been much better with more teams winning titles before expansion. Had KU been in any conference other than the Big 12 they wouldn't of won that many conference titles.

You said if Cal is penalized for playing in CUSA that Self should be for playing in the Big 12. That's either trolling or insane talk.

There's no comparing the difficulty of piling up wins between those two leagues. If Cal lost one conference game at Memphis it was a disappointment.
 
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ExitFlagger

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It has but it's KU and Baylor are the only ones with the titles. Historically the ACC has been much better with more teams winning titles before expansion. Had KU been in any conference other than the Big 12 they wouldn't of won that many conference titles.
What do conference titles have to do with this? That's not even a criteria in the original post.

I think everybody understands that KU wouldn't have won 14 straight in other top leagues, but no other program would have won 14 straight in the Big 12 during that span either. Nobody was as consistent, including Duke.
 

AWilli6995

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Okst, OU , Texas all went to FF's while Self was at KU. Iowa state had amazing seasons. Kstate went to 2 elite 8's. Mizzou was a 2 seed twice. Baylor was a multiple time 2/3 seed before 2021.

KU took out

Michael Beasley
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Buddy Hield
Trae Young
Marcus Smart

And many many more. The vast majority of the last 18 years the B12 had #1 RPI and SOS...

Your post is invalid

Your post is invalid. You do know every team can say the same thing right ?
 

AWilli6995

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What do conference titles have to do with this? That's not even a criteria in the original post.

I think everybody understands that KU wouldn't have won 14 straight in other top leagues, but no other program would have won 14 straight in the Big 12 during that span either. Nobody was as consistent, including Duke.

Fair point and all I’m saying is the Big 12 hasn’t been this juggernaut either. Again I will say with Baylor and TT being good on a consistent basis helps a lot.
 

toonces11

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It has but it's KU and Baylor are the only ones with the titles. Historically the ACC has been much better with more teams winning titles before expansion. Had KU been in any conference other than the Big 12 they wouldn't of won that many conference titles.
No other team would have won that many titles had they been in the big 12 in Kansas' place either.
 

lurkeraspect84

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television-georgecostanza.gif
 
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Montana81

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I'm saying they lost games they were heavily favored in. You made it sound like he always played to seed.

And if a multiple title winner gets a pass for losing seasons, NIT seasons and 8 seeds, then another multiple title winner should probably get a pass for solid seasons that end with an early loss.

Shit happens in a single elimination situation, but there's nothing flukey about losing all season long.

Which of those games was UNC heavily favored in? I imagine after auburn smoked Kansas the line on that UNC game was probably a bit closer.

The only one i can think of right off was George Mason in the 2nd round. They wouldn’t have been heavily favored over Texas A&M because frankly that UNC team was over seeded and everyone knew it. Including the computers.

Post season success is more important than regular season success at the end of the day. That’s what every team in every sport is playing for. Which did you celebrate more? The two national titles or the 577 big12 titles? If you don’t say the natties you’re a liar.
 
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ExitFlagger

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Which of those games was UNC heavily favored in? I imagine after auburn smoked Kansas the line on that UNC game was probably a bit closer.

The only one i can think of right off was George Mason in the 2nd round. They wouldn’t have been heavily favored over Texas A&M because frankly that UNC team was over seeded and everyone knew it. Including the computers.

Post season success is more important than regular season success at the end of the day. That’s what every team in every sport is playing for. Which did you celebrate more? The two national titles or the 577 big12 titles? If you don’t say the natties you’re a liar.

Nobody values the regular season over the tourney, but seasons shouldn't be defined solely by tourney results. It's called March Madness for a reason. How do you view '22 Kentucky? Do you see them as a terrible team because they lost to a 15 seed that no one had heard of? Or do you view them as a talented team that blew it in their final game?

Yeah, postseason is most important. Which is why someone shouldn't get a pass for missing the postseason entirely or entering the tourney as a low seed. "I lost in the 2nd round because I was an 8 seed" isn't a good excuse when you coach at one of these schools. Should have coached better during the regular season. These schools nearly always have the talent to be better than an 8 seed, and if they don't, they should.

Any team/coach that is consistently a high seed is going to have more chokes than someone who isn't. It's just the way of the tourney.

But I'm fine with putting Roy at the top. He has the most titles in that span and I think the most overall tourney wins.
 
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Montana81

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Nobody values the regular season over the tourney, but seasons shouldn't be defined solely by tourney results. It's called March Madness for a reason. How do you view '22 Kentucky? Do you see them as a terrible team because they lost to a 15 seed that no one had heard of? Or do you view them as a talented team that blew it in their final game?

Yeah, postseason is most important. Which is why someone shouldn't get a pass for missing the postseason entirely or entering the tourney as a low seed. "I lost in the 2nd round because I was an 8 seed" isn't a good excuse when you coach at one of these schools. Should have coached better during the regular season. These schools nearly always have the talent to be better than an 8 seed, and if they don't, they should.

Any team/coach that is consistently a high seed is going to have more chokes than someone who isn't. It's just the way of the tourney.

But I'm fine with putting Roy at the top. He has the most titles in that span and I think the most overall tourney wins.

I do value regular season success as well and gave Self credit for his regular season consistency. That’s why i have him as a firm 2nd over the other two.
 
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thebasketballreasons

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Cal has only one title during the last 18 years, it’s hard to rate him above the other great coaches, I’d even put Billy Donovan and Jay Wright above Cal. I get that winning 6 straight is hard in single elimination tournament, but let’s not pretend that his rosters ain’t good enough to win at least 2 titles.

Cal does have very high floor though, last season was the only time in his career to lose to a double digit seeded underdog. In the GOAT conversation however, the ceiling is much more important than the floor. Winning titles >>> consistently taking teams past sweet 16.
 

Turinturumbar

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KU has more bad losses as a high seed than UNC. Roy went to 4 title games and won 3, all as a 1 seed. Yes he had a NIT season, a sub 500 season but when UNC was a favorite or close to it they delivered. To me a bad loss as a 1/2 seed is losing in the first weekend of the tournament, after that it's a crap shoot.
Roy got over his early exit bug two years before he left KU.

On the flip side, most of Self’s bad losses were in his first 8 years. The last several years Self has not had any real bad upsets. Sometimes coaches take a while to figure out how to win in these high pressure tourney situations.
 

Bert Higginbotha

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in 2003 the stars aligned

Bill Self got a blue blood position at Kansas
Roy Williams got his alma mater in UNC
Coach Cal , after getting Dejuan wagner started his foray into the WWW recruiting style at memphis
Coach was already at his peak as the goat up until that time but finally had blue blood competition year in and out (dean smith leaving, roy not at peak at ku and coaching changes at uk)

So since the coaching carousel of 2003 who , of these 4 , are actually the goat through the One and Done era , the fbi era, and now the portal era

Coach Cal

546 wins (181 wins at memphis from 03-04 to 08-09) ( 365 wins w/uk from 09-10 to now)
1 NCAA Title
5 final fours
5 Elite 8 finishes
2 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exit
2 NIT finishes
1 Losing season

Roy Williams

485 Wins
3 NCAA Titles
5 Final 4's
3 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
1 First Round Exits
1 NIT
1 losing Season

Coach K

539 wins
2 NCAA TItles
4 Final Fours
3 Elite 8 Finishes
5 S16 Finishes
2 Round of 32 Finishes
3 First Round Exits
1 NIT eligibility (declined invite)

Bill Self

556 Wins
2 NCAA Titles
4 Final 4's
5 Elite 8 Finishes
2 S16 Finishes
5 Round of 32 Finishes
2 FIrst Round Exits
0 NIT's or missed post seasons
Losing Seasons


So gang, in your humble opinions. From the shot heard around the world Cal to memphis, Self to KU, Roy to UNC and K being K still, 03-04 to 21-22 seasons who has been the GOAT in this time period?
18 years.

Time framing again. Geeze get a life.
 

ThePhog08

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18 years.

Time framing again. Geeze get a life.
Bill Self Joining KU the same year as Roy with UNC, thus changing Duke and coach k's career. And Cal going from the NBA and finding his groove at memphis in 03...

Hell yea, it's a landmark game changing , history changing year.
 

ExitFlagger

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Missouri, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma choose the SEC. So the SEC is not the pussy conference. The Little 12/10/8 or what ever is the real deal. :D

Explain why they would leave the great conference for the SEC? Come on hatch a big lie.

We all know why, and it has zilch to do with basketball success. But I understand why you’d avoid the topic. Last year was said to be the best SEC in decades and still they all faceplanted in March. 😆

But hey, it wasn’t the standard “Kentucky + a team ranked 25th.” That’s progress.
 

Bert Higginbotha

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We all know why, and it has zilch to do with basketball success. But I understand why you’d avoid the topic. Last year was said to be the best SEC in decades and still they all faceplanted in March. 😆

But hey, it wasn’t the standard “Kentucky + a team ranked 25th.” That’s progress.
Bull shit. Kansas lucked up and won a title. LUCKED UP.

The Big 12, 10, 08 or maybe 06 is a pussy conference. You will not answer why four of your best teams left the conference. You totally avoid that because you don't have the facts to back up you premise.

But sometimes a member of a pussy conference will win. Big shit. Hell even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

Kansas after years of failure finally found a nut.

Kentucky was an overrated 2 seed that lost in the first round to an underrated 15 seed. UK sucked big time, I totally agree. Yet that worthless overrated Kentucky team beat the shit out of your Championship Kansas team at Kansas' 1950 rag of a gym.

How in hell can you find grace in that?

That worthless Kentucky team that lost to a 15 seed, beat the crap out of your championship team at home. GEEZE. You are too dumb to see the facts as they are.
 

ExitFlagger

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Bull shit. Kansas lucked up and won a title. LUCKED UP.

The Big 12, 10, 08 or maybe 06 is a pussy conference. You will not answer why four of your best teams left the conference. You totally avoid that because you don't have the facts to back up you premise.

But sometimes a member of a pussy conference will win. Big shit. Hell even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

Kansas after years of failure finally found a nut.

Kentucky was an overrated 2 seed that lost in the first round to an underrated 15 seed. UK sucked big time, I totally agree. Yet that worthless overrated Kentucky team beat the shit out of your Championship Kansas team at Kansas' 1950 rag of a gym.

How in hell can you find grace in that?

That worthless Kentucky team that lost to a 15 seed, beat the crap out of your championship team at home. GEEZE. You are too dumb to see the facts as they are.
So much stupid packed into one post. Impressive. 🤣

Yep. The Big 12 lucked into two consecutive titles and the favorite in the Covid year. Plus an OT loss away from another title the year before.

How can I find grace in winning the national title? You have to be the biggest losers on the planet to keep bringing up the game in AFH. Holy shit. Congrats on peaking in January, you schmuck. 🤣
 
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Bert Higginbotha

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So much stupid packed into one post. Impressive. 🤣

Yep. The Big 12 lucked into two consecutive titles and the favorite in the Covid year. Plus an OT loss away from another title the year before.

How can I find grace in winning the national title? You have to be the biggest losers on the planet to keep bringing up the game in AFH. Holy shit. Congrats on peaking in January, you schmuck. 🤣
Still no reason for Missouri, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma leaving your "Big 12-10-08".

Why did they leave Exit? Is it rats leaving a sinking ship or wise folks getting out of a pussy conference? You will never answer will you?

Stupid I am but what does that make you? Answer the questions instead of the strawman argument, oh brilliant one.

Stupid folks like me need your knowledge. Why did Missouri, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma leave your conference?
 

ExitFlagger

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Still no reason for Missouri, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma leaving your "Big 12-10-08".

Why did they leave Exit? Is it rats leaving a sinking ship or wise folks getting out of a pussy conference? You will never answer will you?

Stupid I am but what does that make you? Answer the questions instead of the strawman argument, oh brilliant one.

Stupid folks like me need your knowledge. Why did Missouri, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma leave your conference?

Are you actually asking this? I assumed you knew the answer to that question. I apparently gave you far too much credit. 😂

Let's talk about that "four of your best teams" comment. When was the last time any of those four did a damn thing in basketball? Oklahoma's final four in 2016? Since then their average finish in the Big 12 has been 7th. There are 10 teams in case you forgot. Texas has been a middle of the pack Big 12 team with one tourney win in 8 years.

KU, Baylor and Texas Tech have been miles better than any of those four. As has the Houston program that is joining soon. WV's been better too. Hell, Iowa St's probably been as good as any of them over the last decade. Missouri and A&M have been shit for years.

Do you actually follow this sport?