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LeBron James

Dattier said:
You never acknowledge the possibility that race was even a minor, subconscious factor when there is the slightest, slightest wiggle room.

You would have heard "police your own" from me previously, had you been listening.

As a rule, I don't call people racists. There are surely exceptions, but not many, and it's been that way for a while. Periodically I point that out when you go on one of these whiny rants.

I identify actions, attitudes, and arguments that seem racist, but that's an opportunity to be educated and stop being that way if you didn't cry about it instead. I've said we can all be agents of systemic racism, even unwittingly. I've said that your stonewalling and rejection of realities you refuse to even understand helps defend white supremacist culture, and I'm correct. You've rejected that systemic racism exists. I've told you many times over how I'm using terms like "privilege," "white supremacy," and "systemic racism," but you do a very white supremacist thing every time and pretend you and you alone control every use of every term and that they mean what you want them to mean.

I've given up on you, toonces. No more avoiding your triggers in an effort to be diplomatic.
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Why do you feel you can ask and basically require acknowledgment at every turn, yet exempt yourself from the same requirement at somebody else's request. You like to run the show---particularly in racial conversations. You feel like you have all the information you need and the conversation starts and stops when your pre req's are met. Do you think people that aren't racist feel beatdown at the never ending onslaught on being backhandedly called racist on almost any topic if they don't first meet your three demands of acknowledging privilege, acknowledging systemic racism in our countries history and accepting your version of a white supremacist culture? Having someone repeatedly say you reject the three terms above because they disagree to the levels you take it to----while still acknowledging they are a real thing------is your weakness, not mine or anyone in my position. Im reasonable---always have been, always will be. That statement doesn't make me right or wrong in any situation....but it does allow me to have an opinion. You exempt yourself from the same accountability you demand from others. You ask why a large group of us always site examples of faux racism instead of focusing on the accounts of real racism---yet refuse to comment or acknowledge causes of wolf criers. You support CK from top to bottom and excuse the examples where he has effed up----yet you don't allow the same amount of leeway for anyone else---b/c you support his cause and don't believe in anybody else. Anytime one of the guys you mentioned extends an olive branch or gives you an inch....you try to hold them hostage until they give up the mile. Your form of persuasion isn't effective.....and thats got to be obvious. It doesn't mean you don't have an educated background on the subject....it doesn't mean you don't have good intentions....it doesn't mean you are in fact some asshole that cant be objective. It just means you cant see the mode in which you interact isn't conducive or effective at reaching people it sure seems like you want to reach. Convincing people who all ready agree with you is easily done by anyone. Finding a way to connect and get people with a different vantage point to see things how you see them is a skill. You are picking fights with people who in general terms...think racism is disgusting----but those people have different experiences with it that are just as valid as your own. Every once in awhile you should be aware enough to call out instances that hurt your viewpoint b/c its all part of being objective. If you were honest enough about the faux parts it would give you credibility on the other issues you fight for. Everyone here has at one time or another extended some form of olive branch to you and you have consistently shit the bed on how to handle it. Just something to think about.
 
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So on topic... I actually DID watch the first episode! I needed something to watch as I ate some takeout, and I didn’t want to watch Band of Brothers, and there isn’t any new Silicon Valley, and I’m caught up on Ballers (yeah I know, I am embarrassed) so I though why not, it’s only 27 minutes.

Some thoughts.

Sorry, but I really like James. He is thoughtful and honest and quite charming.

The clip that got the whole thread started is interesting, and I noticed a detail I hadn’t noticed when I first watched it... when Lebron describes the attitude he developed in the hood, he actually refers to himself being “institutionalized.” I thought that was an interesting word to describe it, in that it really acknowledges how f’ed up it is.

Stewart does a very nice job in his role as the sort of “mediator.” Very, but also insightful and willing to bring up tough stuff. Some good stuff about how a fear of loss of resources, both conscious and unconscious, is what drives so much conflict among people.

I really enjoyed getting to see a bright bunch of athletes talk. I worked in sports, and what this reminded me of is the two teams I ran. And it was interesting... one was a hockey team, so all white, and one was an arena football team that was nearly all black... I think we had the stereotypical white guys... the QB, the kicker, the one receiver, and the insane center:) ). I really like getting to see young athletes talk about stuff outside of sports, because so often athletes are reduced to only a single thing... basically, how we know them through the lens of their sport... and as someone who has spent years with athletes, it was nice to see them in another way, and the way that I realize I am more comfortable with, if that makes sense.

It’s funny as hell to hear LeBron drop the f bomb and the n word all the time, because he can. He sounds more at ease, if that makes sense? But they also have a discussion of the n word among black people, and if it should be used as much.

I do love Snoop.

Interesting to hear LeBron really regrets giving his son his name. Told a cute story about being a dad at a game, and how he got into an argument with a Mom at one of these events, and how embarrassing it was that he was so into a kids basketball game. He talks a lot about his kids, and being a dad, and a lot of it is just dad stuff. Also interesting to hear him reflect on how much the short lifespan of an athletes ability is always on your mind.

Funny that they are all sipping out of these BIG glasses of wine.

Funny to hear Draymond talk about LeBron, and how he views his career as very different in the last four years, and why.

Odell with an interesting take on the zoo-like experience of being famous.

Listening to Jon Stewart and Snoop talk about the show “Cats” and try to explain it to young athletes was funny as hell.

Some interesting stuff from some of the black athletes about how they often wanted their heroes like Jordan to speak up on social issues, but they usually did not, and that’s why they are doing it more, because they feel like they should, that they have a responsibility to young folks. Some good stuff about Ali and that issue.

Anyway... a very easy watch, good one for many people, although more conservative people who don’t think they would like it are probably correct.
 
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TheDude1 said:
So on topic.
Click to expand...
200.gif
 
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TheDude1 said:
So on topic... I actually DID watch the first episode! I needed something to watch as I ate some takeout, and I didn’t want to watch Band of Brothers, and there isn’t any new Silicon Valley, and I’m caught up on Ballers (yeah I know, I am embarrassed) so I though why not, it’s only 27 minutes.

Some thoughts.

Sorry, but I really like James. He is thoughtful and honest and quite charming.

The clip that got the whole thread started is interesting, and I noticed a detail I hadn’t noticed when I first watched it... when Lebron describes the attitude he developed in the hood, he actually refers to himself being “institutionalized.” I thought that was an interesting word to describe it, in that it really acknowledges how f’ed up it is.

Stewart does a very nice job in his role as the sort of “mediator.” Very, but also insightful and willing to bring up tough stuff. Some good stuff about how a fear of loss of resources, both conscious and unconscious, is what drives so much conflict among people.

I really enjoyed getting to see a bright bunch of athletes talk. I worked in sports, and what this reminded me of is the two teams I ran. And it was interesting... one was a hockey team, so all white, and one was an arena football team that was nearly all black... I think we had the stereotypical white guys... the QB, the kicker, the one receiver, and the insane center:) ). I really like getting to see young athletes talk about stuff outside of sports, because so often athletes are reduced to only a single thing... basically, how we know them through the lens of their sport... and as someone who has spent years with athletes, it was nice to see them in another way, and the way that I realize I am more comfortable with, if that makes sense.

It’s funny as hell to hear LeBron drop the f bomb and the n word all the time, because he can. He sounds more at ease, if that makes sense? But they also have a discussion of the n word among black people, and if it should be used as much.

I do love Snoop.

Interesting to hear LeBron really regrets giving his son his name. Told a cute story about being a dad at a game, and how he got into an argument with a Mom at one of these events, and how embarrassing it was that he was so into a kids basketball game. He talks a lot about his kids, and being a dad, and a lot of it is just dad stuff. Also interesting to hear him reflect on how much the short lifespan of an athletes ability is always on your mind.

Funny that they are all sipping out of these BIG glasses of wine.

Funny to hear Draymond talk about LeBron, and how he views his career as very different in the last four years, and why.

Odell with an interesting take on the zoo-like experience of being famous.

Listening to Jon Stewart and Snoop talk about the show “Cats” and try to explain it to young athletes was funny as hell.

Some interesting stuff from some of the black athletes about how they often wanted their heroes like Jordan to speak up on social issues, but they usually did not, and that’s why they are doing it more, because they feel like they should, that they have a responsibility to young folks. Some good stuff about Ali and that issue.

Anyway... a very easy watch, good one for many people, although more conservative people who don’t think they would like it are probably correct.
Click to expand...
Why do you find it funny that he drops the n word and f bomb so many times. Just a question...not starting a fight. Doesn’t matter who it is saying it.....I find it makes the person sound uneducated. Off the cuff cursing...sure. But for a group of guys that highlife racial inequality and racism issues...I’d think the vocab would be a little more intellectual.
 
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toonces11 said:
Why do you find it funny that he drops the n word and f bomb so many times. Just a question...not starting a fight. Doesn’t matter who it is saying it.....I find it makes the person sound uneducated. Off the cuff cursing...sure. But for a group of guys that highlife racial inequality and racism issues...I’d think the vocab would be a little more intellectual.
Click to expand...

Because 99.9 percent of the time we hear James speak, he is doing so in an interview or in a postgame show or some other venue where he has to be very careful with the words he uses and how he speaks. It’s just funny to hear him talk like a regular dude, and honestly quite refreshing... you feel like you are getting real, genuine talk, instead of prepackaged soundbites and the like.

And I disagree that it makes someone sound uneducated... it’s one of the most common words in African American speech, certainly among young men, regardless of education levels.
 
TheDude1 said:
Because 99.9 percent of the time we hear James speak, he is doing so in an interview or in a postgame show or some other venue where he has to be very careful with the words he uses and how he speaks. It’s just funny to hear him talk like a regular dude, and honestly quite refreshing... you feel like you are getting real, genuine talk, instead of prepackaged soundbites and the like.

And I disagree that it makes someone sound uneducated... it’s one of the most common words in African American speech, certainly among young men, regardless of education levels.
Click to expand...
I agree with having a laid back setting and having casual talk. But I don’t find anyone that uses a racial term in everyday convos as funny or a good thing. You mentioned before about people’s experiences bring different growing up. Try being a minority on an aau circuit and being constantly and ironically being called a n::::::: by idiots playing ball. That has shaped my opinion on the word and has almost always showed a lack of education.....not to mention tact.
 
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toonces11 said:
I agree with having a laid back setting and having casual talk. But I don’t find anyone that uses a racial term in everyday convos as funny or a good thing. You mentioned before about people’s experiences bring different growing up. Try being a minority on an aau circuit and being constantly and ironically being called a n::::::: by idiots playing ball. That has shaped my opinion on the word and has almost always showed a lack of education.....not to mention tact.
Click to expand...

I assume that, when I say “funny”, you understand that I don’t mean “hah ha” funny, but “strange” funny, right? I’m not putting a value judgement on it.

And context matters a lot when you are talking directly to someone. Yes, if the main way you heard it was when people were mocking you, sure. But I didn’t see any evidence of anything negative in the situation. In fact, they may have called Stewart that at one point. And they DID discuss the word itself, and black people using it... one guy actually said he never uses that word.
 
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TheDude1 said:
I assume that, when I say “funny”, you understand that I don’t mean “hah ha” funny, but “strange” funny, right? I’m not putting a value judgement on it.

And context matters a lot when you are talking directly to someone. Yes, if the main way you heard it was when people were mocking you, sure. But I didn’t see any evidence of anything negative in the situation. In fact, they may have called Stewart that at one point. And they DID discuss the word itself, and black people using it... one guy actually said he never uses that word.
Click to expand...
I agree with the one guy then. I think it’s an ugly word and shouldn’t be acceptable in any circumstance. When I’ve been called it repetitively......it sure didn’t come off as playing around. I have no problem calling idiots out that use it against me. It’s one of the dumbest words a person can use in the English language and it never....ever...makes a person sound intelligent.
 
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toonces11 said:
Why do you feel you can ask and basically require acknowledgment at every turn, yet exempt yourself from the same requirement at somebody else's request.
Click to expand...
You -- specifically you -- have previously asked. I've previously answered.

Manipulating people like you to help reinforce white supremacist culture means getting anyone who seeks to change white supremacist culture to concede, as often as possible, those points that have already been made at every freakin' turn. I'm bringing up the counterpoint. Entitled, insecure punk that you are, you think you get to say your "piece..." twice.
 
Dattier said:
You -- specifically you -- have previously asked. I've previously answered.

Manipulating people like you to help reinforce white supremacy means getting anyone who seeks to change white supremacy to concede, as often as possible, those points that have already been made at every freakin' turn. I'm bringing up the counterpoint. Entitled, insecure punk that you are, you think you get to say your "piece..." twice.
Click to expand...
...and the award for the "most rustled front hole" goes to.....
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
That's the spirit! You're funny when you want to be.
Click to expand...
The strategic use of humor to get the drop on all the liketards who will love anything said against the people who embarrass and intimidate them doesn't really qualify as pure humor.
 
toonces11 said:
Why do you feel you can ask and basically require acknowledgment at every turn, yet exempt yourself from the same requirement at somebody else's request. You like to run the show---particularly in racial conversations. You feel like you have all the information you need and the conversation starts and stops when your pre req's are met. Do you think people that aren't racist feel beatdown at the never ending onslaught on being backhandedly called racist on almost any topic if they don't first meet your three demands of acknowledging privilege, acknowledging systemic racism in our countries history and accepting your version of a white supremacist culture? Having someone repeatedly say you reject the three terms above because they disagree to the levels you take it to----while still acknowledging they are a real thing------is your weakness, not mine or anyone in my position. Im reasonable---always have been, always will be. That statement doesn't make me right or wrong in any situation....but it does allow me to have an opinion. You exempt yourself from the same accountability you demand from others. You ask why a large group of us always site examples of faux racism instead of focusing on the accounts of real racism---yet refuse to comment or acknowledge causes of wolf criers. You support CK from top to bottom and excuse the examples where he has effed up----yet you don't allow the same amount of leeway for anyone else---b/c you support his cause and don't believe in anybody else. Anytime one of the guys you mentioned extends an olive branch or gives you an inch....you try to hold them hostage until they give up the mile. Your form of persuasion isn't effective.....and thats got to be obvious. It doesn't mean you don't have an educated background on the subject....it doesn't mean you don't have good intentions....it doesn't mean you are in fact some asshole that cant be objective. It just means you cant see the mode in which you interact isn't conducive or effective at reaching people it sure seems like you want to reach. Convincing people who all ready agree with you is easily done by anyone. Finding a way to connect and get people with a different vantage point to see things how you see them is a skill. You are picking fights with people who in general terms...think racism is disgusting----but those people have different experiences with it that are just as valid as your own. Every once in awhile you should be aware enough to call out instances that hurt your viewpoint b/c its all part of being objective. If you were honest enough about the faux parts it would give you credibility on the other issues you fight for. Everyone here has at one time or another extended some form of olive branch to you and you have consistently shit the bed on how to handle it. Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Spot on! @Dattier is a smart guy, I think we can all acknowledge that. But he has trouble understanding the other person's point of view. If we don't make concessions and readily admit that there are pervasive problems, then we obviously don't listen - and there's no hope for us... And we're reinforcing white supremacist culture. Perhaps, perhaps, maybe it's possible that we simply don't agree with the assertions made? At least not on the same scale. And maybe, just maybe, a good chunk of the statements made are grounded in subjectivity more so than in absolutes. Stating your opinions as facts is cute and all, but it's hardly a persuasive form of discourse.
 
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dukedevilz said:
Spot on! @Dattier is a smart guy, I think we can all acknowledge that. But he has trouble understanding the other person's point of view.
Click to expand...
Look, you do not have my trust or my ear. You're not going to have any success peddling amateurish counseling. There's no need to tag me.

dukedevilz said:
Stating your opinions as facts is cute and all, but it's hardly a persuasive form of discourse.
Click to expand...
I choose my words carefully. I rarely have to eat them because I don't overextend myself.
 
Dattier said:
Look, you do not have my trust or my ear. You're not going to have any success peddling amateurish counseling. There's no need to tag me.


I choose my words carefully. I rarely have to eat them because I don't overextend myself.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think you're fairly well-composed, because you do receive a fair amount of flak from those with countering viewpoints. But I wouldn't say you're consistently cautious. I mean, just in the previous page I quoted quite a few aggressive/hostile statements that you made (most coming from page 7 in this thread, I believe)... Amateurish counseling? Fair enough. Unsolicited advice is often seen as criticism. I'm just a little puzzled by your persistence and the demands you make when people don't acknowledge the same frustrations that you do.
 
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Dattier said:
You -- specifically you -- have previously asked. I've previously answered.

Manipulating people like you to help reinforce white supremacist culture means getting anyone who seeks to change white supremacist culture to concede, as often as possible, those points that have already been made at every freakin' turn. I'm bringing up the counterpoint. Entitled, insecure punk that you are, you think you get to say your "piece..." twice.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you have enough self awareness that you admit trying to manipulate conversations with your buzz words. Its pretty transparent in nearly every post and gets rejected at the same clip.

"Entitled, insecure punk that you are, you think you get to say your "piece..." twice." Once again, you try to assign traits to other posters that most accurately describe yourself and posting style. Entitled and insecure scream from your loaded posts.....and its obvious thats not a wild claim of mine.

Your method of arguing this subject never moves past incessantly talking about the problem. You are a problem guy, not a solutions guy.
 
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Dattier is probably the most articulate and well-read poster here. Unfortunately, he's also proof that it doesn't necessarily make a person less susceptible to media brainwashing or getting suckered into the left/right paradigm.
 
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MrBaracus said:
Dattier is probably the most articulate and well-read poster here. Unfortunately, he's also proof that it doesn't necessarily make a person less susceptible to media brainwashing or getting suckered into the left/right paradigm.
Click to expand...

Hey now!

:)
 
dukedevilz said:
I'm just a little puzzled by your persistence and the demands you make when people don't acknowledge the same frustrations that you do.
Click to expand...
That's not what I'm doing, so I would agree that you are puzzled about something.
 
toonces11 said:
I'm glad you have enough self awareness that you admit trying to manipulate
Click to expand...
Read again.

toonces11 said:
Once again, you try to assign traits to other posters that most accurately describe yourself and posting style. Entitled and insecure scream from your loaded posts.....and its obvious thats not a wild claim of mine.
Click to expand...
What's not so obvious is any kind of support for that. Claiming it's obvious is just a cop-out. I've fully supported the unfortunate conclusions I've reached about you.

toonces11 said:
Your method of arguing this subject never moves past incessantly talking about the problem. You are a problem guy, not a solutions guy.
Click to expand...
Here? Y'all won't even acknowledge the problem accurately. That's a prerequisite to so-called "solutions" on a message board.
 
SNU0821 said:
I would bet that he'll claims Rivals is riddled in the white supremacy culture and is racists which is the direct cause of the error.
Click to expand...
I do wish Rivals had a "night mode" for the display. The white screen is too bright and I'd much rather it be darker.
 
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Discussing race and politics on Rivals is infinitely more productive than a six hour PD on PARCC testing. INFINTELY.
 
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