Will Bron END UP the GOAT?

[brooky03]

I said his 15th season. Sorry, we can revisit in 4 years when Bron is the best PF in the league averaging 24-12-6.

Is it Bron's fault that he skipped college, receiving zero tutelage at that time, when the entire world already pegged him as the second coming? MJ was a skinny freshman, and Bron was on the cover of SI. Which career path was easier?

The career path with the red carpet laid out for you, marketing teams spending millions upon millions of dollars to make sure everybody knows you're great, and NBA coaching at 18 instead of college coaching is clearly the easier path. How is this even a question?

 

[uncfan in ky]

Damn, the disrespect for Kobe is real.

 

[brooky03]

There's another thing that LeBron beats Jordan at. Being a consummate professional on & off the court.

For a cry baby who likes to involve himself in off-court drama with players and management, yeah LeBron is pretty professional.

 

[829305]

The career path with the red carpet laid out for you, marketing teams spending millions upon millions of dollars to make sure everybody knows you're great, and NBA coaching at 18 instead of college coaching is clearly the easier path. How is this even a question?

Yeah. No pressure there. Eyeroll

MJ called Dean his surrogate father. Yeah, that did nothing for him. GTFO

 

[brooky03]

Wish LeBron had all that rest. We'd think Brady retired early, whenever that day comes. Winking

Brady is like the 20th best QB ever, soooo

 

[JL-23]

There's another thing that LeBron beats Jordan at. Being a consummate professional on & off the court.

Oh you mean where a company pitched him a barbershop talk idea and then he took that idea from them then tried to sue Alabama for using a a similar concept? The fired coaches? The mass trades? The decision?

 

[brooky03]

Yeah. No pressure there. Eyeroll

Pressure doesn't make players play worse. Unless they're pussies. Are you saying LeBron is a pussy?

 

[829305]

Pressure doesn't make players play worse. Unless they're pussies. Are you saying LeBron is a pussy?

He has his moments.

 

[Quavarius]

I think he will. It's just like the K and Wooden debate. Or UCLA/Kentucky debate. One may have won more championships, but the length of winning by the other is too much to ignore.

Plus it's harder to win now than it was back then. Just my opinion.

 

[829305]

The toughest part about asking people to admit LeBron is the GOAT (people around my age who experienced MJ), is that you're asking them to turn their back on their childhood, so to speak. They have to admit they didn't grow up during the greatest player ever, almost like music in a sense.

 

[JimboBBN]

Bill Simmons made a funny point on his podcast not too long ago, about how the NBA has buried all evidence of MJ losing in the '94(?) playoffs because God forbid we show Jordan in a state of weakness. He was kidding, but it's true. We only remember MJ's greatness these days, and he was, and still probably is the GOAT, for now.

I saw a stat for how many All Star teammates LBJ and MJ each played with during their Finals appearances. MJ played with 5 I believe, while LeBron is at 10 +. He's had a lot of help over the years, more than MJ ever did. I will say, what LBJ did in 07 with zero help was absolutely amazing. Even though he did get swept in the Finals

 

[Quavarius]

The toughest part about asking people to admit LeBron is the GOAT (people around my age who experienced MJ), is that you're asking them to turn their back on their childhood, so to speak. They have to admit they didn't grow up during the greatest player ever, almost like music in a sense.

I grew up during MJ and Kobe (who always gets left out of this debate as well). Real recognize real.

 

[B-Westy]

Oh you mean where a company pitched him a barbershop talk idea and then he took that idea from them then tried to sue Alabama for using a a similar concept? The fired coaches? The mass trades? The decision?

No run-ins with the law. Ever. Sending 1,000 kids to college. Great role model for kids. He's done way more for his community than Jordan ever did.

 

[JimboBBN]

Damn, the disrespect for Kobe is real.

Top 10 but not top 5. And he's my favorite player of all time.

 

[brooky03]

The toughest part about asking people to admit LeBron is the GOAT (people around my age who experienced MJ), is that you're asking them to turn their back on their childhood, so to speak. They have to admit they didn't grow up during the greatest player ever, almost like music in a sense.

I just want to hear what makes him greater. It's not stats and it's not championships. So what is it? The eye test?

 

[829305]

I saw a stat for how many All Star teammates LBJ and MJ each played with during their Finals appearances. MJ played with 5 I believe, while LeBron is at 10 +. He's had a lot of help over the years, more than MJ ever did. I will say, what LBJ did in 07 with zero help was absolutely amazing. Even though he did get swept in the Finals

MJ never won without Scottie. Do you count Scottie 6x? Fwiw, I think he is severely underrated, and as they've said, he was the only guy that could guard MJ.

 

[Quavarius]

I still laugh at the people who HATE Bron because of "The Decision."

His "decision" had so much impact on their life that they can never forgive him tho I have other theories on that. Laughing

 

[JimboBBN]

MJ never won without Scottie. Do you count Scottie 6x? Fwiw, I think he is severely underrated, and as they've said, he was the only guy that could guard MJ.

Scottie is one guy, though. You could say LBJ never won without Wade, never won without Bosh, never won without Kyrie, or Love. I think Scottie is a great player, too. But there's a difference in needing one future HOF to help and 2 or 3.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I still laugh at the people who HATE Bron because of "The Decision."

His "decision" had so much impact on their life that they can never forgive him. Laughing

Agree. There are many more reasons to hate him than just the "decision". Hell some hate hair plugs.

 

[ExitFlagger]

The toughest part about asking people to admit LeBron is the GOAT (people around my age who experienced MJ), is that you're asking them to turn their back on their childhood, so to speak. They have to admit they didn't grow up during the greatest player ever, almost like music in a sense.

It can get ugly if you try to tell a Gen Xer that Pearl Jam isn't the greatest band in rock history and the Seattle grunge scene wasn't the pinnacle of popular music.

 

[829305]

I just want to hear what makes him greater. It's not stats and it's not championships. So what is it? The eye test?

I've been too busy throwing counter punches.

Bron will own like every stat in the book when he's done, but do we want to go over all of those? But, one of my favorites is Bron leading his team in scoring, assists, and rebounds 62 times in the playoffs. Second best are Duncan and Bird at 21. The dude does it ALL. I would point to some things I already said, like the spotlight was unreal on the kid. He had nary the tutelage of MJ. No father figure, like ever. He's done a thousand times more for his community and is willing to speak, not just smile for the cameras and sell shoes like MJ. He's been to 7 straight Finals. He is currently carrying a team on his back in his 15th season. I think right now it's tough to say LBJ over MJ, but by the time he hangs em up, we'll know he's the GOAT. And, 20 years after his career, when it has time to marinate and many of his supporters are too old to use the Internets or dead god forbid, it won't even be a debate. I've left a laundry list out, but don't want to carry on too long.

 

[JL-23]

No run-ins with the law. Ever. Sending 1,000 kids to college. Great role model for kids. He's done way more for his community than Jordan ever did.

Michael gave us Air Jordan's, so like...whatever dude..

 

[829305]

Scottie is one guy, though. You could say LBJ never won without Wade, never won without Bosh, never won without Kyrie, or Love. I think Scottie is a great player, too. But there's a difference in needing one future HOF to help and 2 or 3.

Totally disagree due to the chemistry and continuity of Scottie and Phil.

 

[Quavarius]

I wonder has anyone made a list of all of the things Jordan can do that Bron can't and all of the things Bron can do that Jordan can't. Would be interesting.

 

[829305]

It can get ugly if you try to tell a Gen Xer that Pearl Jam isn't the greatest band in rock history and the Seattle grunge scene wasn't the pinnacle of popular music.

Lol. That's me. They're my favorite band. Can't wait for Wrigley this year, shows #24 and #25 for me.

 

[829305]

I still laugh at the people who HATE Bron because of "The Decision."

His "decision" had so much impact on their life that they can never forgive him tho I have other theories on that. Laughing

I soured on him bigtime after that. But when he went back, I forgave him. And I'm sure he is REALLY happy to know that. EyerollLaughing

 

[BANGBRO]

Had Bron been tutored by Dean and Phil and had a father, there wouldn't be an argument.There are a lot of ways to play the IF game. Winking

 

[schoonerwest]

Top 10 but not top 5. And he's my favorite player of all time.

Who would you have him ahead of?

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Olajuwon
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Kareem

That’s probably the most common top 10 in some order, right?

 

[829305]

 

[JimboBBN]

Who would you have him ahead of?

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Olajuwon
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Kareem

That’s probably the most common top 10 in some order, right?

My top 5 would probably be...

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell

After that, I'd have some order of Kobe, Bird, Wilt, Duncan, and Shaq

 

[829305]

Who would you have him ahead of?

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Olajuwon
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Kareem

That’s probably the most common top 10 in some order, right?

Pretty solid list. I feel like Magic should be higher, but now that the average PG is 6'4 and not 6'0, maybe he's not as impressive at 6'9 playing the point.

 

[schoonerwest]

Pretty solid list. I feel like Magic should be higher, but now that the average PG is 6'4 and not 6'0, maybe he's not as impressive at 6'9 playing the point.

It wasn’t necessarily my list. Just wanted to see who he’d rank Kobe over out of those 10 players.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

Some Jordan reading material for your enjoyment...






My personal opinion is that Lebron is one of the best ever. Could possibly be the best ever. The NBA today is more athletic and skilled than it has ever been, so it is hard to compare different eras.

Also, anyone who doesn't have Magic as one of their Top-5 all time is crazy. Dude came in as a rookie, was an All-Star starter who averaged 18ppg, 7.7rpb, and 7.3apg for the season. Game 6 of the NBA Finals, Kareem was hurt so they put PG Magic in at CENTER, and he scored 42pts, 15 boards, and 7 assists - and then became the only rookie to ever win the Finals MVP award. 5x Champion - 12x All-Star - 4x assist leader - 3x Finals MVP - 3x Reg Season MVP - 2x All-Star MVP.

 

[i love yancy]

Can the morons that think Kobe is a top 5 player much less better than Lebron please excuse themselves from this conversation?

 

[KisteK]

You don’t have to. Jordan earned the GOAT status back when defenses could mug you from the minute you stepped on the court.

Imagine if LBJ could mug people like the NBA allowed back then.

 

[829305]

Imagine if LBJ could mug people like the NBA allowed back then.

Flip the script. Well played.

 

[KisteK]

I grew up on Jordan. While other girls were out girling, I was inside watching MLB, NBA and NFL games.
I loved Jordan, I have enough basketball cards of his to prove such. I remember being in disbelief when he retired the first two times. I knew, when watching him, that he was the greatest I'd ever seen.
But..
He didn't get labeled in high school The Next Greatest..
Nobody held him to the flames when his teams fell short.
He had a mastermind head coach.. and an organization that went to extraordinary lengths to keep him happy.
He had a top 50 all time wingman in every title series.

^LeBron James has had none of these.^

I loved the NBA in the late 80s-late 90s, watched whatever game I could find.
Last ~10 years or so, I only watch ~25 regular season games and most playoffs games, and without a doubt LBJ is the greatest basketball player I have ever watched. It's not a statistical thing with me, it's how he plays, how he leads, how he interacts with his team.

And that doesn't even touch what LeBron has done (lol in comparison) to Michael Jordan off the court. Which, in my view, rockets James into the stratosphere well above Jordan as a role model.

Jordan stepped away from the sport he loved twice before finishing his career elsewhere.
I hope James leaves the city he loves twice before finishing his career elsewhere.
Fuch Dan Gilbert.

 

[829305]

I grew up on Jordan. While other girls were out girling, I was inside watching MLB, NBA and NFL games.
I loved Jordan, I have enough basketball cards of his to prove such. I remember being in disbelief when he retired the first two times. I knew, when watching him, that he was the greatest I'd ever seen.
But..
He didn't get labeled in high school The Next Greatest..
Nobody held him to the flames when his teams fell short.
He had a mastermind head coach.. and an organization that went to extraordinary lengths to keep him happy.
He had a top 50 all time wingman in every title series.

^LeBron James has had none of these.^

I loved the NBA in the late 80s-late 90s, watched whatever game I could find.
Last ~10 years or so, I only watch ~25 regular season games and most playoffs games, and without a doubt LBJ is the greatest basketball player I have ever watched. It's not a statistical thing with me, it's how he plays, how he leads, how he interacts with his team.

And that doesn't even touch what LeBron has done (lol in comparison) to Michael Jordan off the court. Which, in my view, rockets James into the stratosphere well above Jordan as a role model.

Jordan stepped away from the sport he loved twice before finishing his career elsewhere.
I hope James leaves the city he loves twice before finishing his career elsewhere.
Fuch Dan Gilbert.

Nailed it.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

While we don't have a crystal ball, the man is still in his prime, and his career is far from over. MJ's career is over right now, if measured by seasons not age. MJ played 15 and didn't make the playoffs, so anything Bron does now is overtime, so to speak. I just don't see how he doesn't end up the GOAT. MJ will be the greatest winner, or champion, or whatever. But, the best to ever touch a basketball? Gotta go Bron.

So in other words you think the GOAT is defined by longevity above all else?

GTFO with that nonsense. Only thing Lebron is GOAT at is being the healthiest all time great in the sport's history, maybe in any sport history for that matter.

MJ was better and will always be better.

 

[829305]

So in other words you think the GOAT is defined by longevity above all else?

GTFO with that nonsense. Only thing Lebron is GOAT at is being the healthiest all time great in the sport's history, maybe in any sport history for that matter.

MJ was better and will always be better.

Man, I've posted more in this thread than I post most days, and that's all you took from it? I'll happily GTFO of a conversation with you.