It appeared to be more than Kentucky. Auburn, Tennessee, Bama and LSU.
Maybe it's the SEC's time to shine.
Who are the teams shaping up to be contenders for the title at this point?
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Maybe it's the SEC's time to shine.
The SEC always has some talent. Coaching, not so much.
Notice that a cast-off like Rick Barnes is a standout.
Evan Turner, Trey Burke, Frank Kaminsky all won Naismith player of the year between 2010-2019. Garza probably will this year (regardless of how the panned out in the NBA).
Are you asking who could’ve won each particular season or who could’ve won 14 straight?
How many times has a Big 12 team outside of Kansas made a final four this century?
Kansas is great.
Kansas is great.
Not sure what you’re baiting me into but there have been some really good Big Ten teams over the past 15 years even without a national titles.
We get it....the Big 10 has a few more final fours in that span. Has 90% of your league been to the elite 8?
How is answering your question baiting you?
If you're wanting to match the best of the Big 10 each season vs the best of the Big 12, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying which single program could have matched KU's streak and the answer is zero.
Kinda silly to bash an accomplishment that literally no other team could have come close to matching.
Okay, Duke may have been close, but there were at least two seasons in which they definitely wouldn't have won it.
All of the others had NIT years, unranked teams, double digit tourney seeds, teams w/ losing records, etc. KU finished the year ranked in the top 10 in almost every season during the streak and often top 5. That's why it happened. Not because they play in a "shit league."
When did I bash what KU has done?
My entire stance is that the rest of the Big 12 severely rides the coattails of Kansas. Also, VulvHa does have a point that winning the Big 12 for Kansas on average would be easier than winning the Big 10. That’s not a knock on Kansas.
A few? How many is a few when you take out Kansas? And aside from Kansas what’s the Elite 8 count between conferences in that span?
Kansas is the best program in either conference but after that the Big Ten has the clear advantage. Agree?
I don't have the exact numbers. Feel free to look them up. I'm pretty sure if you take out MSU and KU, the total number of final fours is within three or so in that span.
Kinda silly to act like a final four berth is automatically better than an elite 8 appearance, btw. Does Michigan beating a 9-seed in the elite 8 a few years ago mean that they were better than the Baylor team that lost to 2012 Kentucky? Or the KU team that lost to Nova in the E8?
They have a clear advantage in terms of depth, partly due to having several more teams. But no, there's not a clear advantage at the top. The Big 12 routinely has 1 or more top 10 teams aside from KU, plus several other ranked teams.
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Which Big 10 team scares anyone on an annual basis other than Mich St? Even they aren't consistently elite.
What does that have to do with my point? I’m not arguing the Big Ten is full of elite teams. I’m saying we have better good teams.
Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio State have all played for national titles in that span. Michigan played for a national title twice in that span and didn’t even win the conference either of those years.
Kansas is great. After that the Big Ten has the next several spots in terms performance in that span you gave. We should be able to agree on that.
Would you rather use Kenpom final standings to gauge teams? Michigan finished 7th that year. Baylor 13th in their year.
But usually tournament results are useful data points.
Ah, the selective Kenpom use method. Tried and true.
What about the KU team? You forgot to mention them. Overall #1; lost to eventual champ Nova by a bucket in the Elite 8.
I could probably find 10 Big 12 teams that were objectively better than that Michigan team that didn't go as far. That had to be the easiest path to the title game in history.
I just used it for the two years you brought up Michigan and Baylor because you didn’t like using tournament results.
I’m asking what you would prefer to judge the rest of the conference if we drop out the top team (Kansas and MSU). Kenpom? Tournament results? What do you prefer before I waste time looking at teams.
Some of you are arguing stupidity because there are years Kansas wouldn't have won the B1G and then there are years other teams in the Big 12 would have won the B1G.
Both are wrong in a way and both are correct just matters the year.
But for the most part Kansas would have won 10+ B1G championships since 2000
Both are wrong in a way and both are correct just matters the year.
But for the most part Kansas would have won 10+ B1G championships since 2000
I admitted that it's a deeper league. Naturally...there are several more teams. So I'll give you that there are usually more good teams, but not that they're necessarily better. No one in the B10 is better than Baylor this year. No one was last year. No one was better than Tech two years ago. No one was better than the Buddy Hield OU team. In '17, no team from either league went past the Sweet 16 other than KU. Etc, etc.
Fact that you have to play each team twice
B1G championships are determined by the schedule and not play on the court.
Not every team has the same schedule.
Unlike the Big 12 where you have to play each team in a home and home
B1G championships are determined by the schedule and not play on the court.
Not every team has the same schedule.
Unlike the Big 12 where you have to play each team in a home and home
I'm betting that Kenpom results would favor the Big 12 and tourney results will favor the Big 10. But not drastically. Use whichever.
INFOGRAPHICS: How the major conferences stack up in NBA Draft history
We look at the Big East, ACC, Big 12, Pac-12, Big Ten and SEC -- before and after realignment
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This is why I question the B1G...
Just the lack of talent in the conference
Crazy thing about the B1G. The most draft picks they ever had is 8 in a single year since 2000
I think this does help the B1G in a way because you have more 4-5 year players like what we see in Wisconsin
Overall the conference lacks talent and you see it on the court
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Yep. You can't dodge anyone on the road. And if there is another elite team, you're probably going to play them three times.
You’d bet that if we take out Kansas and MSU?
How deep do we go then? The next best 5 teams from each conference each year?
I've said multiple times that KU wouldn't have had a streak like that in another top league. But the point is that no one else would have done what they did in the Big 12 (incl Duke), so it's pretty foolish to trash the accomplishment.
You aren't getting it ..
Kansas plays those teams twice...
So even if the Big 12 has less Top 20 teams a lot of times KU is playing more because of the schedules.
How many B1G teams have 8 games against Top 15 teams in conference this year?
Kansas plays those teams twice...
So even if the Big 12 has less Top 20 teams a lot of times KU is playing more because of the schedules.
How many B1G teams have 8 games against Top 15 teams in conference this year?
I was just saying that no team other than KU went past the S16 that year. How else would you expect me to word that? The point is that you can't objectively argue that the Big 10 had a better team than the top Big 12 team in any of those years. Yet you're saying that the Big 10's "good" teams are consistently better than the Big 12's.
And I don't study Kenpom, so I wouldn't bet on anything. Just my guess.
The scheduling differences makes up for that
You have to play each team twice in the Big 12
Most of these teams you play once in the B1G
You have 14 teams. Only can play 5 teams twice if they play 18 conference games. 6 if they play 20.
You have to play each team twice in the Big 12
Most of these teams you play once in the B1G
You have 14 teams. Only can play 5 teams twice if they play 18 conference games. 6 if they play 20.
I didn’t say better single team up top. I’m saying take away Kansas and MSU and I’d bet collectively that say Michigan / Wisconsin / Ohio State / Purdue have been better than Baylor / WVU / Oklahoma / Texas or whoever you consider the next top teams after Kansas.
I mean....if we're talking about that entire period (last 20 years), the edge probably goes to the Big 10. But it's not like it isn't close.
And it's kind of irrelevant in the argument of which league is harder to win (for KU or Mich St). I'd rather face a bunch of teams that my team is clearly superior to than one team that is at the same level. Take this year, for example. If you take Baylor out of the equation, I'd feel good about KU's chances to win the league. As is, I don't feel good about it at all. I'd rather be in the B1G this year. Or last year.
But that’s not really how it is. In 2012/13 Michigan was playing Indiana on the final day of the season for a share of the conference title. We lost, ended up taking 5th place, and making the national championship game.
That’s how tight it gets up top.
In fact, Michigan played for a national title twice this decade and those years we finished 5th and 4th in the Big Ten.
Take out MSU and the Big Ten has still played for four national titles during Kansas’ conference championship run.
Ohio State
Michigan
Wisconsin
Michigan
Has the Big 12 has anyone else but Kansas make the title game during that run? Or even the final four? At work can’t check every team.
Ohio State
Michigan
Wisconsin
Michigan
Has the Big 12 has anyone else but Kansas make the title game during that run? Or even the final four? At work can’t check every team.
But it's not tight in the Big 12? Look at the last several years. Look at the four co-champs and all the times the league was won by a game or two. It's tight almost every year.
I didn’t say it wasn’t. You were the one implying that teams 2-5 or so are definitely inferior. Like I said, the Michigan team that beat Kansas en route to a national runner up finished FITH in the Big Ten.
Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio State.
Who are the next three teams in the Big 12 after Kansas during the stretch you’re talking about. You’re getting blocked if you’d take them over the three I said because that is Gil level stupid.
3/4s of the Big 10 have played for the NC in the last 20 years. That is insane
KU would just be another good team in the Big 10
KU would just be another good team in the Big 10
