Jesse Jackson calling on high profile athletes to Boycott UK
- Thread starter della
- Start date
I agree, but had Duke won the EE game then got beat the next game in the FF they wouldn’t catch nearly as much shit as they have since then. Bc they would have made the all mighty FF, even though it would have still been underachieving based on the talent of the roster.
Same for UK 2015 except opposite. They made the final four but still greatly underachieved based on that roster. But since they got to the final four before they got beat, the season will go down as a successful season, despite the fact that they didn’t win it all with the most talented roster since Woodens days at UCLA.
Kinda the Same but opposite for 2010 when UK had the most talented roster, but lost in the EE to WVU. Does that one loss off a terrible shooting performance make the whole season a failure? What if it would have happened in the FF and not the EE? Would the season have been then considered a massive success? So kinda like I said all FFs aren’t created equally imo so it’s kind of flawed to base the success of a season on whether or not you make the final four.
But I will concede it’s equally flawed, actually even more so, to base it off whether or not your team won the title.
I guess imo it comes down to personal preferences and personal expectations.
Last edited:
That is just untrue. But, that kinda sums up the way UK fans are.
I have been here for years. I have been on the CFB board for years. UT has been up and down in CBB and we have gone through a decade of suck while our arch rival (bama) has been at their zenith. I am no fair weather fan, but UK fans only smugly sit in the CBB board 365 days a year. Uk fans are the epitome of fair weather fans.
I suppose if UT and Auburn take CBB away from y'all, you'll have to pick up gardening or something.🥦🥕🌽🍅
I disagree. I think it was a disappointing season---but not a failure. I mean they went 32-6. ...Won the ACCT....Went to the Elite 8. I just don't see that as a failure. Sure they two transcendent players in , well, I guess Barret, and of course, Zion. Though I am trying to figure out who the "third stud" was: Jones, Reddish, and...........................
Look, as good as that five was, they were not deep. HUGE drop-off when any of those dudes came off the floor----HUGE. I mean bro, Jack White was Willimason back-up. Alex ****in O'Connell backed up Barrett. SO, the two transcendent players on the team, had back-ups that wouldn't have started at ****ing Iona...Look we get caught up in the superstars that START. We forget that those dudes cannot play 40 minutes a game, for 40 games...
That Duke team 1-5 was STACKED. But after that? Bro, that was 10th place ACC talent.
I'm gonna leave the 2010, 2015 UK teams alone...I mean do you see those teams as failures? I sure the fuk don't.
Two very good points...
1. If Duke had beaten a very good 2nd seeded MSU team, and gotten to the FF, why view it different? What b/c they won 4 games, instead of 3? Bruh---I mean its hard to win in the SW16 and beyond. You are playing teams that CAN BEAT YOU. Teams that have just as much talent...Teams that can match you. I don't the crime of losing to a 2-seed, by one, in the Elite 8, with a bunch of damn freshman.
2. 2015 UK----What if ND's 3 goes in? Does that change things, that much? What is the difference in 37-1, losing in the Elite 8---to 38-1, losing in the FF? Or had UK reached the title game, and lost?
Both scenario's IMO are certainly disappointing...But far from failures.
Man to much emphasis put on "reaching the FF....title game, etc, etc...The NCAAT is fukin hard to win. Hard to advance. I mean it only takes one bad night, vs one good night, and your ass could be done.
Take a look at 1991 and 1992 Duke. A "dynasty" so to speak. Back to back titles, in the midst of 5 straight FF trips. But lets look at those two teams, and just how close/easily that dynasty could have never existed...
1991 Duke: Very good team. Pretty much crusied to the FF...BUT----of course Vegas awaited. Great game. But folks, I mean what IF UNLV doesn't panic at the end, i.e.Larry Johnson passing the ball late, forcing a wild "3" by Anderson Hunt---That BTW, dam near went in....
1992 Duke: Even better than the '91 group. But bro's---they were a non-perfect pass, non-perfect Lattener night away, from losing to UK in the Elite 8. A UK team full of YMCA guys, and a dude named Mashburn. Then in the FF, they trailed a really good IU team by 12....That is irrelevant, but just wanted to put that in there.
My point?
Those two Duke teams EASILY could have lost to UNLV and UK...Hell, the dynasty could have easily ended before it even started(UNLV). BUT, since Hunt missed and Lattener did not, those Duke teams are considered lauded. The '92 team even mentioned among the best ever.
Crazy how a made or missed shot can change the entire course of history.
Take a look at 1991 and 1992 Duke. A "dynasty" so to speak. Back to back titles, in the midst of 5 straight FF trips. But lets look at those two teams, and just how close/easily that dynasty could have never existed...
1991 Duke: Very good team. Pretty much crusied to the FF...BUT----of course Vegas awaited. Great game. But folks, I mean what IF UNLV doesn't panic at the end, i.e.Larry Johnson passing the ball late, forcing a wild "3" by Anderson Hunt---That BTW, dam near went in....
1992 Duke: Even better than the '91 group. But bro's---they were a non-perfect pass, non-perfect Lattener night away, from losing to UK in the Elite 8. A UK team full of YMCA guys, and a dude named Mashburn. Then in the FF, they trailed a really good IU team by 12....That is irrelevant, but just wanted to put that in there.
My point?
Those two Duke teams EASILY could have lost to UNLV and UK...Hell, the dynasty could have easily ended before it even started(UNLV). BUT, since Hunt missed and Lattener did not, those Duke teams are considered lauded. The '92 team even mentioned among the best ever.
Crazy how a made or missed shot can change the entire course of history.
Of course it changes history. How could it not? Say for example Hunts shot goes in---UNLV wins. Say Lattener's shot misses, and UK wins...It completely changes history, bro.
It goes without saying if you win a close one, your record will be better then if you lose it. I thought you were talking about the perception of teams based on how far they advanced in tourney.
Not exactly. But to an extent, yes. Point is/was, to much is put on winning, versus losing. There isn't much of a difference. But folks seemingly cannot see that.
I don’t think there’s anyway you can classify that 2018 season as anything other than a failure for Duke. That team was ridiculously talented, and I think it was a particularly poor coaching season from Coach K.
That’s that for my masochistic trip down memory lane for the day.
That team 1-5 was sickening... Minus Bolden. After that---??? It was a god damn JV team. That team had zero depth....They were very, very good. No doubt. But they were not the no nonsense juggernaut, ass whooping, take names later, by me a ****in beer, type of team. I mean, bro---MSU was good. Really good. Experienced. Shit, I mean, a missed FT, a made 3 late, was the difference. Its not like Duke was dog-walked by some 7-seed.
I just cannot call a 32-6, Elite 8, ACCT winning year/team, a failure.
no doubt playing UK is as close to playing for a championship as Tenn. will ever get
You guys like to think your king, so when we French revolution y'all and take your heads off, it is fun. Laughing
That's true, but here's the difference, usually you have to play a real in the FF that is extremely hot and/or talented.
We have seen too many teams back into the FF bu beating some directional school in their E8 game simply because their bracket fell apart.
In the FF, any of those four teams can win the whole thing.
Would you consider UK's 2012 team to be great? I do, but they had no depth either. I think Duke's starting 5 was better. You don’t lose like that when you have 2 transcendent players and coach K.
Two transcendent players and three 5 star players + coach K. Dude, it was a failure. I mean, we're talking about Ziot Eilliamson + Barrett + Tre Jones + coach K. Is that not a better combination than UK 2012? It certainly is in my opinion.
Sorry man, "my opinion" is that it was a total disapointment losing in the E8 with that team and that coach.
you admitted winning a championship is not as great as beating UK in a regular season game
so yea, UK is your king
True, BUT......that UK team had a dude named Darius Miller.. Lets be honest---UK doesn't win the title with out Miller....Not to mention, the return of Lamb and Jones. THat UK team, though not deep, had great freshman(Davis, Teague and MKG), combined with two very talented soph's(Lamb/JOnes), and a really good, steady senior in Miller. PLus another 5* frosh in Wiltjer...In other words, it wasn't just the two transcendent players that made UK who they were---it was the two really good returning sophomores, and a very good senior, that made that team .
Total different make-up of the two teams..
Williamson+Barrett+Jones+K, better than AD+MKG+Teague+Cal.....I mean, I don't think so. But for argument sakes, lets say yes....Now lets add the rest...
Reddish+Bolden+ Jack White+ DaLaurier, versus Jones+ Lamb+ Miller+Wiltjer.....
Look man, thats tough, Ya'll focusing on two or three dudes....Yeah, Duke had the 1, 2 and 4 rated recruits----but they were freshman...UK had the 1, 3 and 7th rated recruits....BUT they also had two 5*, Top 20 kids in JOnes(11th) and Lamb(18th) that returned as soph's...Not to mention a Top 35, senior in Darius Miller....Then another 5* in WIltjer...
2012 UK had 7 guys off that team go to the NBA....Two of those dudes were the #1 and #2 pick....THe other was the 18th....Another was the 29th.. All 1st round picks....In other words, 4 of the 5 starters off that team was drafted in the 1st round....OF THE SAME DRAFT. The other starter was selected in the 2nd round...Miller went 46th as well....6 Dudes off the same team, drafted in the same year...C'mon, bro..
2018 Duke had 4....And they were drafted 1, 3 and 10. ..I mean thats tough....Three dudes in the Top 10. But, bro---that shows ya how dependent they were on THREE dudes. Williamson, Barrett and Reddish. UK had Davis, Miller, Teague, Lamb, Jones and MKG.....
C'mon, man...It aint even close,bro.
So do you view 2010 UK as a failure? Had two transcendent players in Wall and Cousins...Drafted #1 and #5...three other 5 stars in Bledsoe, Patterson and Orton. ....Had 3 lottery picks...4 all together taken in 1st round. Was a 35-3 team, who reached the Elite 8, that had a bad shooting day against a team that shot out their minds, a failure?
Or does it just go to show that no matter how damn good you are....no matter how stacked you are, that all it takes is one BAD day to end your season?
Basketball is weird, bro...The NCAAT is a ****ing hard thing to win. Seldom does the best team win it---Hell seldom do the best 4 teams, get to the Final Four. Once you get to the SW 16, man its tough...You are playing some great teams...Then you have years where you get that damn 5 or 6 seed...or what not, that's just on fire...Or you get to an Elite 8---you are better....But shit, the team you are playing ain't exactly chopped fukin liver, i.e, 2018 Michigan State. Look at 2015 UK. I mean bro, that team was a missed 3 pointer at the buzzer away from going home, in the Elite 8. But b/c the shot missed, you don't see THAT ****ing team as a failure b/c they got to the FF----but see 2018 Duke as a failure b/c they lost to Big 10 champ, 2-seeded MSU, by ONE point? In the Elite 8. C'mon, man....
Was 1991 UNLV not a failure? 34-0. Defending champs. Beat the shit out of everyone. Then lose to the same team they beat by 30 the previous season.... Shit look at the 1990 Vegas team that won it----They smashed mudder****ers to pieces in the NCAAT...Beat Duke by ****ing 300 for the title...Guess who damn near beat them......Yeah Lethal Weapon 3 made a run at them in the Semi Finals...Not surprising, that was a very, very good GaTech team. But the game they damn near lost---and probably should have?
****ing Ball State....UNLV did everything they could to give the game away. Fortunately for them, Ball State wasn't in a "taking mood". Held on for a 69-67 win.
Point is---No matter how god damn good you are, if you are NOT that good .that night, your ass can lose. Something we all know all to well.
I've heard the "UK doesn’t win without Miller" thing before and it is pretty much bullshit. Miller was a backup. He got hot in a few games during the season, but lets be honest, AD, Jones and MKG are why that team won. Miller was good, but he wasn't freaking Damion Lillard.
Do you know who AD's backup was? Yeah, Eloy freaking Vargas.
That team worked their asses off all season. In the gym by 6am before classes, then back at it several times throughout the day.
That 2018 duke team had a different makeup, but they were every bit as talented, if not more talented, but they didn’t put in the work. They were better in November than they were in March. They never really improved throughout the season.
If Trevon Duval, or Boldon, or Delaurier stepped up, like Miller did, you would be able to sit here and say "if they didn't have Delaurier, they don’t win the title in 2018". Delaurier, Duval & Boldon were secondary players, just like Miller was. The difference is, Miller obviously put in the work and played his role very well, those three duke guys didn’t.
Plus, remember, "Cal is only a good recruiter, he can't coach, he just rolls the balls out", but "coack K is the greatest coach of all time".
So, I'll say it again, duke 2018 not making it to the FF is a huge failure. Again, Zion + RJ + Jones + K is, at the very least = to UK 2012 and one could argue that talent wise, duke 2018 > UK 2012 and that’s not even figuring in the fact that, from what I've heard, K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cal.
You’re right, it ain't close, Duke 2018 had more top end talent and again, they had the greatest coach that ever walked the face if this earth.
Last edited:
Dude, you won't find a UK fan that doesn’t view 2010 as a failure. Are you kidding? That was a gigantic failure.
2015 losing to Wisconsin the way they did, is also a huge failure. 2 straight shot clock violations? Cal going to stall ball mode about 5 minutes too soon. Booker and Ulis sitting on the bench while the twins muck it up and no touches for Townes down the stretch.
UK fans like to blame refs (Wiscy did get an extra possession after the refs missed a shot clock violation), but you won't find any UK fans that feel 2010 and 2015 weren't failures.
I addressed thid in another post. UK 2015 was a failure. Tha record (38-1) as awesome, but the way that team lost as on Cal. I listed the reasons in my previous post.
No, UNLV was not a failure, they list to the eventual title winner and duke was simply the better team.
I'll say it again, duke had the best roster and they have coach K. It was a failure. Yes, the tournament as hard, but they should have been ousted in each of the 2 games prior to the Michigan state game. The team didn’t put in the work. Yeah, the tournament as hard, but you need to put in the work, they didn’t.
I think we are making the same point. All FFs aren’t the same, like u mentioned when brackets fall apart and teams back into the final four as you put it. Like the bracket after umbc beat uva and someone knocked off Zona early and the EE ended up being a 8 seed and a 11 seed I think (Kstate and Loyola)
It’s just why I personally don’t put as much emphasis on making the final four as being some grand achievement like most.
I don’t think Duke had more talent anywhere, not top end not end of the bench either.
If you line up the rosters and compared the players, UK was a much better team.
Ad>Zion. I know zion is newer and shinier but he wasn’t as dominant as Davis. More in particular, he couldn’t win games by himself at the defensive end Like AD did.
Barrett>mkg (maybe this is close imo)
reddish > lamb (another maybe close one)
Tre Jones>Teague
Then UK> at every other spot on the roster
Duke had no one else close to Terrance Jones or wither or Miller
You put Miller in the same breath as delaurier or white or O’Connol when Miller was drafted and played a while in the NBA (might still be there I’m not real sure)
You mention eloy vargas was ADs backup, he’ll Boldens worthless ass was Dukes starting Center till they figured out he wasn’t gonna cut it.
And lmao at you pretending to know whether or not Dukes players worked hard at practice or that 2012 UK won the title bc of how hard they worked at practice, never mind the 7 players that were on an nba roster a few months after the season. I mean I’m not saying they didn’t work hard, but for you to sit behind ur keyboard and say the reason Uk won it all in 2012 and duke didn’t in 2018 was duke didn’t work hard in practice is comedy gold.
This is very true. Not all FF's are created equal. I've seen some really tough roads and some broken brackets, like the one you mentioned in 2018. That hurt, because UK could have come out if that bracket, but they laid a big fat egg at the free throw line against KSU.
But, those runs UK went on in 2011 and 2014 were pretty incredible. Then, both teams ran into UConn. Ughhh.
You’re laughing at my opinions, but all you have dond was post your opinions.
You gave AD the nod over Zion, but it isn’t that simple. AD was not a big-time scorer, Zion was. Zion was a better offensive player, but AD was the better defensive player. To me, at best, they cancel each other out in this comparison.
But Duke had the better PG and to me, that is the biggest feather in Duke's cap. This game starts and ends with pg play and Duke had the better pg.
Also, are we just not going to talk about the coaches? We can't change the stance that everyone has taken since Calipari became UK's coach. The narrative has ALWAYS been that K is the greatest and Calipari just rolls the balls out and can't coach a lick. Are we just going to ignore that?
As far as duke's guys not putting in the work in practice, well, I never said that I knew anything, but look at the product on the floor. UK improved greatly throughout the season in 2012, but duke, to me at least, appeared to stay the same throughout the season. In fact, did they play any better in any game than they did against UK in November?
I’ll give you 11 but 14 was a joke.
We got jobbed and we can argue about it on here till Christmas and never change each others minds lol.
And yea thank god for UConn. Crazy to think if not for bad games/choke jobs/bad breaks in 2010 and 2015 and UConn beating UK in 2011 and 2014. Cal could have legitimately won 5/6 titles in his first 6 years at UK. Then riding that insane hypothetical momentum, no telling what might have happened since then.
Geeze y’all would be unbearable lmao
and yea as a rival that bracket was so sickening. It literally broke perfectly for UK. Thank you Bruce Weber. I gave them no chance to beat shai and Knox and company.
Im not K nut hugger. I appreciate good coaches and realize not everyone can be a great coach. But at the end of the day the Players win the game. The players make the shots, get the rebounds. It doesn’t matter how good of a coach you are if u don’t have good players. But yes I will concede that duke had the advantage at HC, although that doesn’t really factor into the talent comparison
AD was unstoppable on offense as well, he just didn’t have to assert himelf, especially isolating, bc of the talent he was surrounded by. Plus ADs best offensive weapon might have been the fact that any time a UK player got to the lane or close to the goal they could flip it up anywhere close to the rim and AD would swoop in and hammer it home.
I will agree Duke looked better the first game of the year than any other, but I think that had a lot to do with UK not responding after getting punched in the mouth early and then things snowballed. I highly doubt duke would have won by even 20 had they played again the very next day. Also it’s easier to look like your getting better as the season goes on when you play in the SEC as opposed to the ACC.
As far as UK looking better, I mean they looked pretty damn good all year long. One regular season loss @ iu on a buzzer beater, then lost the secC game to Vandy. So losing the last game before the ncaaT doesn’t strike me as UK hitting their stride. That team didn’t need to get hot or hit their stride to win it all. They just had to avoid laying an egg and not allow someone to go crazy off against them. They were by far the best team in the nation and proved it (imo the best of thebdecade although 2015 uk def has an argument)
And ftr the only opinion I was laughing at was that the reason uk won it all in 2012 and duke didn’t in 2018 was bc UK worked harder and Duke didn’t want it bad enough.
In my opinion that’s laughable, but U are welcome to believe whatever you’d like.
In my opinion that’s laughable, but U are welcome to believe whatever you’d like.
Similar threads
