Is Duke or Kentucky the biggest underachiever?

[VaultHunter]

Both get Elite recruiting classes almost every program out there would pay for if they could.

Neither dominate the tournament.

Both have championships but both come up short more often than not.

 

[Montana81]

How excited are you about borderlands 3? I really hope the raids turn out well so I can leave that steaming pile destiny behind for good.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

All teams come up short more often than not.

Can we get a time frame for your experiment here?

 

[oldsports_]

LOL

 

[Global Havok]

Once your coach wins a title with predominantly freshmen, we can talk about underachieving.

 

[Random UK Fan]

63 teams underachieve every season.

 

[ExitFlagger]

63 teams underachieve every season.

Oh, boy....

 

[lurkeraspect84]

This thread is actually flattering for UK and Duke fans.

No team is dominating the tournament, yet here we are talking about UK and Duke.

 

[Cat_Incognito]

Correct answer is Kansas considering they are buying players and have to hang Helms banners.

 

[RR30]

I'm not going to speak for Duke for this troll thread, but I don't think UK has underachieved. I absolutely think Cal should have more than one title here, but winning a title is extremely hard and requires a lot of luck most years (see Virginia this year). Cal has been to 4 final fours and 7 elite 8's in a decade and hasn't gone out in the first round like a lot of other big programs.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I'm not going to speak for Duke for this troll thread, but I don't think UK has underachieved. I absolutely think Cal should have more than one title here, but winning a title is extremely hard and requires a lot of luck most years (see Virginia this year). Cal has been to 4 final fours and 7 elite 8's in a decade and hasn't gone out in the first round like a lot of other big programs.

Not to be that guy. But Cal did lose to Robert Morris in the first round. First round of the NIT, but first round nonetheless.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Not to be that guy. But Cal did lose to Robert Morris in the first round. First round of the NIT, but first round nonetheless.

I still blame our HS basketball tournament.

We are never prepared for hosting a NIT game. I hope the sarcasm comes through here. The boys HS S16 tournament is played in Rupp, and Memorial was being "remodeled". So as a 1 seed we played an away game. Doesn't excuse the loss by no means, and tbh (i might get my UK card taken away for saying this), it was kind of fun watching RM gym go nuts.

With all that said, yes, we lost in the first round.....of the NIT. I had a dog pass away around the same time and we can talk about that too.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Correct answer is Kansas considering they are buying players and have to hang Helms banners.

This is why I laugh every time a Kentucky fan tries to disown Rupp Rafters. The same idiocy is pervasive among those of you here.

 

[Mac9192]

63 teams do not underachieve. There’s only a handful of programs that the national title is a realistic goal almost every season. Duke and Kentucky chose this route, which is fine, but knowingly taking at least 3-4 one and done kids every year, then using the inexperiene line as a reason for falling short is nothing but an excuse.
A team has yet to win it relying on just freshmen. Duke and Kentucky have 1 apiece in this era, but both had solid contributions from veterans.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Remind me again on who is underachieving. Duke and UK seem to be doing just fine, and these stats are with teams with a huge turnover each year. No wonder Calipari and K are in the HOF.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

63 teams do not underachieve. There’s only a handful of programs that the national title is a realistic goal almost every season. Duke and Kentucky chose this route, which is fine, but knowingly taking at least 3-4 one and done kids every year, then using the inexperiene line as a reason for falling short is nothing but an excuse.
A team has yet to win it relying on just freshmen. Duke and Kentucky have 1 apiece in this era, but both had solid contributions from veterans.

How many times has a team been comprised only of freshman contributors? Asking for a friend.

 

[ExitFlagger]

63 teams do not underachieve. There’s only a handful of programs that the national title is a realistic goal almost every season. Duke and Kentucky chose this route, which is fine, but knowingly taking at least 3-4 one and done kids every year, then using the inexperiene line as a reason for falling short is nothing but an excuse.
A team has yet to win it relying on just freshmen. Duke and Kentucky have 1 apiece in this era, but both had solid contributions from veterans.

No, fool...Northeastern underachieved.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

How many times has a team been comprised only of freshman contributors? Asking for a friend.

I'm coming up with nothing.

Anyway, I like our stats. Every fan everywhere wants more, but I can live with our results, as shown above, they're better than most. Some say veteran teams win more, but that's not really the case is it? Numbers don't lie.

 

[Mac9192]

How many times has a team been comprised only of freshman contributors? Asking for a friend.

Tell your friend they read a little too deep into what I said. Please pass along to them how sorry I am for confusing them.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Tell your friend they read a little too deep into what I said. Please pass along to them how sorry I am for confusing them.

In other words, a team has yet to win relying on just freshman because those teams don't exist. Brilliant observation.

 

[AWilli6995]

I'm coming up with nothing.

Anyway, I like our stats. Every fan everywhere wants more, but I can live with our results, as shown above, they're better than most. Some say veteran teams win more, but that's not really the case is it? Numbers don't lie.

UVA was a veteran team that won the title, Villanova's 2 titles were veteran dominated teams, UNC, a veteran team. Now some teams had freshman stars with the help of some veterans like UK and Duke in recent memory. Personally I'll take experienced talent over inexperienced talent all day everyday.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

UVA was a veteran team that won the title, Villanova's 2 titles were veteran dominated teams, UNC, a veteran team. Now some teams had freshman stars with the help of some veterans like UK and Duke in recent memory. Personally I'll take experienced talent over inexperienced talent all day everyday.

I understand that, and have no problems with it. However by bring multiple teams to take on only two, isn't really fair. UK and Duke won 3 titles, mutile final fours, etc, and the rest split them amongst themselves.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

UVA was a veteran team that won the title, Villanova's 2 titles were veteran dominated teams, UNC, a veteran team. Now some teams had freshman stars with the help of some veterans like UK and Duke in recent memory. Personally I'll take experienced talent over inexperienced talent all day everyday.

I'm sure anyone would, but most coaches can't convince that talent to stick around like Roy.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I'm sure anyone would, but most coaches can't convince that talent to stick around like Roy.

aka developing talent slower for the NBA. It shows when they get to the NBA.

Don't get me started on KU. Look at recruiting class rankings and then the graph above.

 

[AWilli6995]

I'm sure anyone would, but most coaches can't convince that talent to stick around like Roy.

Who has Roy convinced to stay? In counting titles Cal should seriously think about doing that but I forgot, he's not into winning titles.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Who has Roy convinced to stay? In counting titles Cal should seriously think about doing that but I forgot, he's not into winning titles.

Yeah, he's players first. Horrible trait to have. We should be more selfish.

"yeah, I know your family has been poor forever, but can you stay another year to help us win a title. It's not guaranteed like the money, but please."

 

[AWilli6995]

aka developing talent slower for the NBA. It shows when they get to the NBA.

Don't get me started on KU. Look at recruiting class rankings and then the graph above.

He did good job in developing Davis and Wall. If they had went to Mercer they would of been # 1 picks

 

[AWilli6995]

Yeah, he's players first. Horrible trait to have. We should be more selfish.

So it's not cool to stay in school even though you're not ready?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

He did good job in developing Davis and Wall. If they had went to Mercer they would of been # 1 picks

Hmm...didn't work out for other prospects. They went to other schools and weren't #1.

 

[AWilli6995]

Hmm...didn't work out for other prospects. They went to other schools and weren't #1.

So you would rather have a UK player drafted #1 over winning a title? Now that helps with recruiting but it doesn't translate on to the court.

 

[HRTheCard]

I'm sure anyone would, but most coaches can't convince that talent to stick around like Roy.

Not when you intentionally inherit the OAD system. Roy hasn't done that. Cal and K have

 

[HRTheCard]

Yeah, he's players first. Horrible trait to have. We should be more selfish.

"yeah, I know you're family has been poor forever, but can you stay another year to help us win a title. It's not guaranteed like the money, but please."

Is he supposed to win games at Kentucky or put players in the NBA? The ultimate goal is to win titles at Uk.

Is that what Roy has said to players? If so, wow. But I'd bet against that.

I think it'd be different if he had talent like Uk and Duke gets staying multiple years, but I don't recall any legit 1st round top talent staying multiple years.

 

[wesr]

Correct answer is Kansas considering they are buying players and have to hang Helms banners.

Kansas Actually played in a FF in the last 5 years.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Who has Roy convinced to stay? In counting titles Cal should seriously think about doing that but I forgot, he's not into winning titles.

Convinced or otherwise, high ranking players that stayed 3-4 years. There are a bunch. He's lucky. Any coach would kill for that.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Not when you intentionally inherit the OAD system. Roy hasn't done that. Cal and K have

Really? Because they had 3 top 20 guys on one team that stayed 3-4 years (Hicks, Jackson, Pinson).

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Kansas Actually played in a FF in the last 5 years.

As have Duke and Kentucky.

 

[AWilli6995]

Really? Because they had 3 top 20 guys on one team that stayed 3-4 years (Hicks, Jackson, Pinson).

And they won a title. Had Pinson and Hicks left early they would be overseas. Johnson was a lottery pick and Pinson is on the Nets roster.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

And they won a title. Had Pinson and Hicks left early they would be overseas. Johnson was a lottery pick and Pinson is on the Nets roster.

I understand that. Doesn't change the fact that they were all top 20 players coming out of high school and stayed in college 3-4 years.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

So you would rather have a UK player drafted #1 over winning a title? Now that helps with recruiting but it doesn't translate on to the court.

Again, I'm happy with our success. We've won on and off the court at the highest levels.

 

[AWilli6995]

Convinced or otherwise, high ranking players that stayed 3-4 years. There are a bunch. He's lucky. Any coach would kill for that.

Cal chooses to recruit that way so roster turnover is the norm. All high ranking players aren’t OAD so by your logic when they aren’t ready you assume the coach convinced them to stay. Ok