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GOT

Hmmm... a lot of thoughts, now that I finally caught up, a day late.

It was a difficult episode to watch.

Firstly, because of the actual filming. It was dark, a lot of the bodies looked the same, the dragons REALLY looked the same, there was a lot of swirling snow, and there was a lot of "Character A magically appears next to Character B, even though they were nowhere near each other."

Secondly, for me, because it was just terribly brutal. Sure, maybe not for our named characters, but christ, the sheer scale of death was a lot to take. Every single dothraki, it looks like almost all of the unsullied, we didn't see a ton of the wildlings but I think we have to assume them, too, and then a lot of the crypt... the North is basically wiped out, and all of Dany's armies that she built up over the last seven seasons, gone too. And horribly, too... what a terrible death for so many people. Listening to the slaughter in the crypt made me a bit sick.

Not a fan of the tactics. I guess it makes sense that the Dothraki would just charge... that's clearly their way, and they clearly will be most effective doing that, rather than fighting on foot behind walls... but still, just felt like suicide. And the unsullied... throughout the show, they never really fought in the shield wall/phalanx formation that spears and shields would imply. I expected them to make a big ass wall of shields and have the dead smash into them for a good long while... instead, the dead just flowed right over them like water. Maybe the idea is that the humans didn't REALLY get how deadly the dead were?

I was shocked that more named people didn't die, but in the end I am glad. I was not ready to say goodbye to a lot of these characters. But yeah, it was WAY too convenient... they were all surrounded by dead bodies and wights, but all managed to survive, without any regular people around them surviving? WAY too much plot armor.

Interesting that Arya turned out to be the one the prophecy was talking about. Didn't expect that. But so then why did Jon come back to life? What was his mission? Was it basically the gathering of the people to defend the North?

The cleanup would be INSANE. Like... it would take months and months. I guess you'd just have the dragons burn the bodies? What a horrible job. BTW, can't believe that it seems that both dragons (and Ghost?!) survived the battle! Sooo... now how does that impact what happens in Kings Landing? The image of Drogon hopping away covered with the dead was pretty brutal.

Will winter now end? Like... will the weather turn good now? I'd be down for that, I think.

I am actually thrilled that the Night King storyline appears to be done. The dead and the Night King were never the shows strong point; the strong point has always been the characters and the interactions. The "next week on" made me very happy... all faces we know, all well-lit, and looking like the GoT we know so well. I have high hopes for the last three episodes, especially since we sort of knew what was coming to this point (big battle, good guys win.)

I am also starting to have some hope, that in the end some of the characters we love will survive.

I’m fine with the lighting. It made it seem more realistic and chaotic. Didn’t really like Jorah seemingly appearing out of nowhere to save Dany, but it is what it is.

I’ve already had my say on how atrocious the tactics where. Just bad decisions made. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes like Jaime did.

Agreed on more “main” characters dying, but I don’t think we have an official roster of who is left. Still expecting a lot of people to die in the Battle for the Throne.

I watched a video that said just because Arya killed the NK doesn’t necessarily mean she was the PTWP. We still have some questions involving this and the circle symbol that hopefully get answered.

Agreed that the strong part of the show was never really the white walkers. It has always been the politics and scheming.

You’re last sentence has me worried that they are setting this up where fan favorites might actually survive so I fully expect them to be killed off.
 
I rewatched it last night. Jorah was fighting in the courtyard and looked up when he heard Drogon's scream right outside the gate and took off. I didn't think it was that farfetched given where Dany was.

Yeah, he did hear it and rush off... but in the huge tidal wave of the dead, I'm stunned that he made it to her, you know?

There was a lot of "We need this character here, so we'll just make them appear" going on.
 
I clearly missed that.
There were a few things I missed that I caught on rewatch. There was so much damn action that it was hard to keep up which is why I rewatched parts of it.

One other thing I missed. Right before they showed Arya jumping on the Night King, they showed an up close of a wight walker and a rush of air went by him sufficient to blow his hair and he turned his head a bit. That was Arya getting past them.
 
I’m fine with the lighting. It made it seem more realistic and chaotic. Didn’t really like Jorah seemingly appearing out of nowhere to save Dany, but it is what it is.
I've adjusted my tv/sound settings using the THX optimizer (with the blue glasses), and I didn't think it was too dark. Obviously it was night, but I didn't have a problem seeing.

Note: don't use youtube's version of THX optimizer, and adjust it in the dark.
 
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I've adjusted my tv/sound settings using the THX optimizer (with the blue glasses), and I didn't think it was too dark. Obviously it was night, but I didn't have a problem seeing.
Lots of people running their TV's on default settings.

There were some scenes that were dark, but it was never so dark that I couldn't tell what was going on. I will say that Helm's Deep from LOTR was shot in the dark MUCH better than the Battle for Winterfell.
 
There were a few things I missed that I caught on rewatch. There was so much damn action that it was hard to keep up which is why I rewatched parts of it.

One other thing I missed. Right before they showed Arya jumping on the Night King, they showed an up close of a wight walker and a rush of air went by him sufficient to blow his hair and he turned his head a bit. That was Arya getting past them.

Yeah, I missed that when I saw it.

I forget the prophecy you referenced, @TheDude1 .

I'm not crazy about how it takes one no-look jab to kill extras but Brienne can be pinned to the ground by 20 zombies for 15 seconds and emerge unscathed.

Yeah, the main characters survived absolutely EVERYTHING. Regular people just die INSTANTLY, but the regulars go from the front lines to the walls to the courtyard, slaughtering everything and being pulled down time and time again, yet they always manage to fight off the dead and not die, even when countless other dead just run right past.
 
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They have just lost what made them different from most shows, which was the unpredictability (especially regarding main characters). You never were comfortable anything would turn out any certain way. Now you kind of are.
 
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They have just lost what made them different from most shows, which was the unpredictability (especially regarding main characters). You never were comfortable anything would turn out any certain way. Now you kind of are.

There are still three episodes to go;)

Plus, at a certain point, I think we can say that the reason "things go certain ways" a lot is because we, as humans, have found those ways to be the most satisfying... and I expect the show to be satisfying:)
 
There are still three episodes to go;)

Plus, at a certain point, I think we can say that the reason "things go certain ways" a lot is because we, as humans, have found those ways to be the most satisfying... and I expect the show to be satisfying:)
Didn't the writer of GoT say people will be disappointed with the ending or something like that?
 
Didn't the writer of GoT say people will be disappointed with the ending or something like that?

I don't know if he said that, but he has said that he basically doesn't know what actually happens in this last season.

Hard to take his word for anything either, though. His lazy ass hasn't finished the last 2 books over the course of the last 7+ years. He wrote the first in 1996, the 2nd in 1998, the 3rd in 2000... then it took him 11 years to release the next 2 books (A Feast for Crows in 2005 and Dance With Dragons in 2011) - which were actually supposed to be one book, but he decided to split them up.

So now we still don't have the 6th book (The Winds of Winter) after 8+ years now, and the last book (A Dream of Spring) is probably not even close. Who knows, maybe he has a plan. But based on some articles, he just seems fat and lazy. This article even mentions how the last 2 books were kind of a let down compared to the first 3, so its not like HBO is the only one half-assing it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...show-getting-ahead-of-the-books/#7b929653575d

"Worse still, Feast and Dance were initially supposed to be one book, and instead of splitting it up chronologically, for some godforsaken reason Martin and his publisher decided to split it up by character POV chapters. So we got half the characters in Feast and the other half in Dance, which was strange to say the least. Much of the tension was sapped from the two books, which fell fall short of the quality in the previous three."
 
I don't know if he said that, but he has said that he basically doesn't know what actually happens in this last season.

Hard to take his word for anything either, though. His lazy ass hasn't finished the last 2 books over the course of the last 7+ years. He wrote the first in 1996, the 2nd in 1998, the 3rd in 2000... then it took him 11 years to release the next 2 books (A Feast for Crows in 2005 and Dance With Dragons in 2011) - which were actually supposed to be one book, but he decided to split them up.

So now we still don't have the 6th book (The Winds of Winter) after 8+ years now, and the last book (A Dream of Spring) is probably not even close. Who knows, maybe he has a plan. But based on some articles, he just seems fat and lazy. This article even mentions how the last 2 books were kind of a let down compared to the first 3, so its not like HBO is the only one half-assing it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...show-getting-ahead-of-the-books/#7b929653575d

"Worse still, Feast and Dance were initially supposed to be one book, and instead of splitting it up chronologically, for some godforsaken reason Martin and his publisher decided to split it up by character POV chapters. So we got half the characters in Feast and the other half in Dance, which was strange to say the least. Much of the tension was sapped from the two books, which fell fall short of the quality in the previous three."
that's a bit of a bummer. After these last 3 episodes I'm going to read the books and then re-watch the series.
 
I don't know if he said that, but he has said that he basically doesn't know what actually happens in this last season.

Hard to take his word for anything either, though. His lazy ass hasn't finished the last 2 books over the course of the last 7+ years. He wrote the first in 1996, the 2nd in 1998, the 3rd in 2000... then it took him 11 years to release the next 2 books (A Feast for Crows in 2005 and Dance With Dragons in 2011) - which were actually supposed to be one book, but he decided to split them up.

So now we still don't have the 6th book (The Winds of Winter) after 8+ years now, and the last book (A Dream of Spring) is probably not even close. Who knows, maybe he has a plan. But based on some articles, he just seems fat and lazy. This article even mentions how the last 2 books were kind of a let down compared to the first 3, so its not like HBO is the only one half-assing it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...show-getting-ahead-of-the-books/#7b929653575d

"Worse still, Feast and Dance were initially supposed to be one book, and instead of splitting it up chronologically, for some godforsaken reason Martin and his publisher decided to split it up by character POV chapters. So we got half the characters in Feast and the other half in Dance, which was strange to say the least. Much of the tension was sapped from the two books, which fell fall short of the quality in the previous three."

Apparently he killed a character in the books that he realizes now he needs to keep the main plot going and he is having trouble coming up with a viable solution.
 
that's a bit of a bummer. After these last 3 episodes I'm going to read the books and then re-watch the series.

I haven't read a single line of any of the books, so I'm no expert. I just keep seeing people bash HBO for how they've handled the transition (for the story after the last of the books)... but what else are they gonna do? They've been working with George RR Marting for damn near a decade now, and ever since the very first meeting where they pitched him the idea for the show... he's known he needs to get his shit together. Instead, it keeps taking longer and longer. The dude is not healthy looking and already 70+ years old. Will he even live long enough to finish the books?

Apparently he killed a character in the books that he realizes now he needs to keep the main plot going and he is having trouble coming up with a viable solution.

I hadn't heard that, or even know which character it is. That said, he could browse f-ing reddit and come up with some great ideas if he's stumped himself.
 
I haven't read a single line of any of the books, so I'm no expert. I just keep seeing people bash HBO for how they've handled the transition (for the story after the last of the books)... but what else are they gonna do? They've been working with George RR Marting for damn near a decade now, and ever since the very first meeting where they pitched him the idea for the show... he's known he needs to get his shit together. Instead, it keeps taking longer and longer. The dude is not healthy looking and already 70+ years old. Will he even live long enough to finish the books?



I hadn't heard that, or even know which character it is. That said, he could browse f-ing reddit and come up with some great ideas if he's stumped himself.

https://winteriscoming.net/2018/06/...d-with-george-r-r-martin-about-writing-shell/


And as @Global Havok said no he probably won’t finish the books. Somebody will need to step in and finish them, like Sanderson did with The Wheel of Time.
 
So GRRM is 70 and doesn’t exactly look like he’s healthy. If I had to guess I would say that if the next book isn’t out by Christmas next year he isn’t finishing the series. And it sounds like its a longshot at that.
 
I'm heading to Santa Fe tomorrow for a 5 day camping trip. I'll swing by GRRM's place and make some thinly veiled threats to help motivate him.
fanboys-stormtroopers-fast-food-driveway.gif
 
Went through so many emotions from the moment Arya was airborne, to the moment the dagger pierced the night king. I thought she was dead when he caught her by the throat. Happy as hell because she's been my favorite character from the beginning, but still wanted more story with the night king.

Lol at y'all wanting them to flank the dead army through the blizzard riding in with them. I'm sure they would've done a lot of damage fighting with no sight.
 
Went through so many emotions from the moment Arya was airborne, to the moment the dagger pierced the night king. I thought she was dead when he caught her by the throat. Happy as hell because she's been my favorite character from the beginning, but still wanted more story with the night king.

Lol at y'all wanting them to flank the dead army through the blizzard riding in with them. I'm sure they would've done a lot of damage fighting with no sight.

So you’re fine with just charging straight in? Good call Robert E Lee. Maybe 3rd time’s a charm.
 
So you’re fine with just charging straight in? Good call Robert E Lee. Maybe 3rd time’s a charm.

Didn't say that. But trying to flank in a blizzard that you couldn't even see through sounds just as idiotic. Jon and Danaerys almost killed each other and lost both dragons in it. I guarantee the Dothraki got more kills charging straight ahead than they would've trying to trek through a snowstorm with no vision. Maybe the Dothraki should've taken Jorahs advice from season1 and got some Westerosi armor. Probably would've survived longer.
 
So you’re fine with just charging straight in? Good call Robert E Lee. Maybe 3rd time’s a charm.
They were fvcked regardless. But they did fail at so many traditional military tactics.

They should have dug the trench further away from the castle walls and had the unsullied between the trench and the walls and then the catapults between the unsullied and the walls. Then they could have launched well defended catapults as they charged and lit the trench when the dead started breaching it. The unsullied would have been safe instead of being cut off. Once they lit the trench, they could have had the Dothraki flank the dead.

They also could have had archers between the unsullied and the trench lighting up the dead and then when the breach began, they could have retreated to the top of the castle walls.

Even in the formation they chose, they should have launched the catapults once the dothraki were gone and the dead were charging. And after they lit the trench and the dead were just standing there, the archers should have been lighting them up.
 
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Didn't say that. But trying to flank in a blizzard that you couldn't even see through sounds just as idiotic. Jon and Danaerys almost killed each other and lost both dragons in it. I guarantee the Dothraki got more kills charging straight ahead than they would've trying to trek through a snowstorm with no vision. Maybe the Dothraki should've taken Jorahs advice from season1 and got some Westerosi armor. Probably would've survived longer.

You can’t blame the blizzard though because the charge happened before the blizzard came into play. That was the first part of the plan. It was a trash plan, you seem to be the only one who doesn’t think so.
 
They were fvcked regardless. But they did fail at so many traditional military tactics.

They should have dug the trench further away from the castle walls and had the unsullied between the trench and the walls and then the catapults between the unsullied and the walls. Then they could have launched well defended catapults as they charged and lit the trench when the dead started breaching it. The unsullied would have been safe instead of being cut off. Once they lit the trench, they could have had the Dothraki flank the dead.

They also could have had archers between the unsullied and the trench lighting up the dead and then when the breach began, they could have retreated to the top of the castle walls.

Even in the formation they chose, they should have launched the catapults once the dothraki were gone and the dead were charging. And after they lit the trench and the dead were just standing there, the archers should have been lighting them up.

I agree with most of this. Devil's advocate, but would they even have gotten the trench lit if it were not so close to the castle walls? They barely got it lit as is, and needed magic to do so.

They should have had multiple trenches and used fire to burn them from both sides. And more arrows - why NOT just hammer these stagnant wights. Unless they only had limited amount of arrows?
 
You can’t blame the blizzard though because the charge happened before the blizzard came into play. That was the first part of the plan. It was a trash plan, you seem to be the only one who doesn’t think so.

Nowhere did I say it wasn't a shit plan. I simply said flanking in a blizzard is just as shit of a plan.

You're reading comprehension is suspect.

ME- "That alternative wouldn't have worked."
YOU- "You're okay with rushing straight in."
ME- "I didn't say that. That alternative wouldn't have worked either."
YOU- "So you don't think the plan was trash."

Put more words in my mouth, please.

Literally as soon as the Dothraki held forward and died, Jon and Danaerys went straight to them. The blizzard was literally right behind them. Yes, it would've played a massive role in trying to get behind them. As would the Night King, who was in the sky watching and orchestrating his army.
 
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Nowhere did I say it wasn't a shit plan. I simply said flanking in a blizzard is just as shit of a plan.

You're reading comprehension is suspect.

ME- "That alternative wouldn't have worked."
YOU- "You're okay with rushing straight in."
ME- "I didn't say that. That alternative wouldn't have worked either."
YOU- "So you don't think the plan was trash."

Put more words in my mouth, please.

Literally as soon as the Dothraki held forward and died, Jon and Danaerys went straight to them. The blizzard was literally right behind them. Yes, it would've played a massive role in trying to get behind them. As would the Night King, who was in the sky watching and orchestrating his army.

Your cognitive skills are suspect, but you do you. Pickett’s Charge will work one of these days.
 
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