Duke

[ExitFlagger]

Well yes, because we won actually. KU has yet to do that this year. But from the sounds of it, title or bust for the Jayhawks this year. By far and away the best team should have no issues winning it

I'm saying it's pretty lame to discredit a team because it's a so-called down year.

'12 Kentucky defeated a team that some expected to miss the tourney before the year started. One of the least talented teams that Self has had. Yet you think that 12 Kentucky was the best team of the era.

 

[JimboBBN]

I'm saying it's pretty lame to discredit a team because it's a so-called down year.

'12 Kentucky defeated a team that some expected to miss the tourney before the year started. One of the least talented teams that Self has had. Yet you think that 12 Kentucky was the best team of the era.

Kansas wasn’t the best team we beat in that tournament. Maybe even the third? Regardless. They are the best team of the last ten years and you’re comparing them to a team that hasn’t won anything yet.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Kansas wasn’t the best team we beat in that tournament. Maybe even the third?

Regardless. They are the best team of the last ten years and you’re comparing them to a team that hasn’t won anything yet.

The metrics disagree on both accounts.

But I should probably believe the Kentucky fan with an agenda instead...

 

[JimboBBN]

The metrics disagree on both accounts.

But I should probably believe the Kentucky fan with an agenda instead...

But I thought..

Yeah.

Both are garbage systems.

Anything else?

 

[ExitFlagger]

But I thought..



Anything else?

Meaning the ones that people actually cite and view as credible. Hint...not RPI or NET.

 

[bignish]

I've thought the same thing for several years now. I don't really know what to make of it. Maybe his system requires key guys to stay multiple years.

But yeah, I'm amazed at how well coached Duke is at the start of the season, but I have no idea why they fade the way they do.

Yeah Jeff, we "faded" by making it to the Elite 8 the last 2 years and winning the ACC Tournaments in 2017 and 2019.

It's tough to win games in March buddy, lets go with that.

 

[bignish]

But they won every one of them because they're a great free throw shooting team and they're also a very good defensive team. It's not a coincidence.

They're a great defensive team, wait what? This is one of the worst defensive units in the Calipari era.

I agree about the foul shooting but I also think they've been getting lucky in some close games with their opponents making mental mistakes.

Wake would've beaten UK last night if Richards got into foul trouble like Carey did and they shot otherworldly.

UK just hasn't faced any elite teams in a while or mediocre teams that have played way over their heads recently.

 

[ExitFlagger]

They're a great defensive team, wait what? This is one of the worst defensive units in the Calipari era.

I agree about the foul shooting but I also think they've been getting lucky in some close games with their opponents making mental mistakes.

Wake would've beaten UK last night if Richards got into foul trouble like Carey did and they shot otherworldly.

UK just hasn't faced any elite teams in a while or mediocre teams that have played way over their heads recently.

Have they faced any elite teams?

 

[Noahtogo24]

Have they faced any elite teams?

Ville? Kentucky beat them at home, while Duke didn't..

 

[JimboBBN]

Ville? Kentucky beat them at home, while Duke didn't..

He said elite, not overrated

 

[ExitFlagger]

Ville? Kentucky beat them at home, while Duke didn't..

I'd say they're way too inconsistent to be called elite.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah Jeff, we "faded" by making it to the Elite 8 the last 2 years and winning the ACC Tournaments in 2017 and 2019.

It's tough to win games in March buddy, lets go with that.

Sure thing man. But, it ain't just me saying it.

 

[kyjeff1]

They're a great defensive team, wait what? This is one of the worst defensive units in the Calipari era.

I agree about the foul shooting but I also think they've been getting lucky in some close games with their opponents making mental mistakes.

Wake would've beaten UK last night if Richards got into foul trouble like Carey did and they shot otherworldly.

UK just hasn't faced any elite teams in a while or mediocre teams that have played way over their heads recently.

First of all, don't even go there with "Wake would have beaten UK last night if Richards was out with foul trouble". Richards was in serious foul trouble last night against a much better team on the road, a team that had just reeled off three very impressive wins, but it didn't matter. Wake Forest had 4 conference wins in a very down ACC.

Thing is, you can't just shut one guy down on UK and think that they're beat, because that has been tested in every game this year, whereas if you take Jones OR Carey out, Duke is in trouble.

Secondly, I never said UK was a "great" defensive team. I said "very good". And you know what, they are very good, you only have to watch them to know. The metrics consider the full season, but the last 2 months, UK has been an exceptional defensive team. They're 15-2 in their last 17 games. That includes wins over Louiville, @ Texas Tech, Florida, @LSU, @ Arkansas (full strength) and @ Tennessee. You aren't going 15-2 if you have a weak defense AND turn the ball over 15+ times a game.

Sorry, but duke has not looked very good at all lately. Should have lost at UNC, lost badly at NCSU, lost at Clemson and lost at Wake. The amount of points duke is giving up to NIT teams (and worse) is alarming, but the way the metrics are set up, it doesn't effect them. Congrats.

 

[kyjeff1]

I'd say they're way too inconsistent to be called elite.

Other than KU and Baylor, who else actually has faced and beaten elite teams? Probably some BIG10 teams, but mist of those will be home games.

Looking at the top teams in the Big East, there are some good wins, but they're all followed up with home losses.

Not too many teams are going into LSU and TT and coming out with a W. They may not be elite teams, but they are pretty damn good at home.

Since the loss to Ohio State in late December, UK has been on a tear, they have won the games they were supposed to win and a few they weren't favored to win.

When you look at the teams rated ahead of UK, there aren't too many that can say they are playing better than UK since 1/1/20. Everyone has ugly bruises.

 

[bignish]

Have they faced any elite teams?

I'd say they're way too inconsistent to be called elite.

No they haven't, there are 8 elite teams in my opinion that is a serious resume booster if you have a win against them: KU, Zags, Baylor, Creighton, Nova, Maryland, FSU and Seton Hall

Duke is terrible on the road so I'll add them if you beat them at home in Cameron.

These teams have clearly separated themselves over the past month or so based on their excellent metrics and wins over other great teams.

Kentucky hasn't beaten any of these teams. They've beaten teams their fanbase thinks is good just because they play in the SEC so they must have the "biggest and baddest athletes"!!!!

It's implicit bias working in full steam.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

No they haven't, there are 8 elite teams in my opinion that is a serious resume booster if you have a win against them: KU, Zags, Baylor, Creighton, Nova, Maryland, FSU and Seton Hall

Duke is terrible on the road so I'll add them if you beat them at home in Cameron.

These teams have clearly separated themselves over the past month or so based on their excellent metrics and wins over other great teams.

Kentucky hasn't beaten any of these teams. They've beaten teams their fanbase thinks is good just because they play in the SEC so they must have the "biggest and baddest athletes"!!!!

It's implicit bias working in full steam.

Just curious. Where's UL ranked in the ACC? Any noteworthy teams from the ACC lose to them this year? UK is 2-0 vs the ACC. Just asking and throwing it out there.

Also note* 1-1 vs Big 10, 1-0 vs Big 12. But yeah, it's just b/c we beat up on the SEC.

Silly ****got, dicks are for chicks

 

[bignish]

First of all, don't even go there with "Wake would have beaten UK last night if Richards was out with foul trouble". Richards was in serious foul trouble last night against a much better team on the road, a team that had just reeled off three very impressive wins, but it didn't matter. Wake Forest had 4 conference wins in a very down ACC.

Thing is, you can't just shut one guy down on UK and think that they're beat, because that has been tested in every game this year, whereas if you take Jones OR Carey out, Duke is in trouble.

Secondly, I never said UK was a "great" defensive team. I said "very good". And you know what, they are very good, you only have to watch them to know. The metrics consider the full season, but the last 2 months, UK has been an exceptional defensive team. They're 15-2 in their last 17 games. That includes wins over Louisville, @ Texas Tech, Florida, @LSU, @ Arkansas (full strength) and @ Tennessee. You aren't going 15-2 if you have a weak defense AND turn the ball over 15+ times a game.

Sorry, but duke has not looked very good at all lately. Should have lost at UNC, lost badly at NCSU, lost at Clemson and lost at Wake. The amount of points duke is giving up to NIT teams (and worse) is alarming, but the way the metrics are set up, it doesn't effect them. Congrats.

Dude, Texas A&M is not better than WFU. I think both are pretty mediocre but Wake is #93 on KenPom and A&M is #138.

Your SEC bias is showing yet again. Congratulations on beating a team by 9 that's about as good as Eastern Washington, Georgia Southern and Winthrop

 

[bignish]

Just curious. Where's UL ranked in the ACC? Any noteworthy teams from the ACC lose to them this year? UK is 2-0 vs the ACC. Just asking and throwing it out there.

Also note* 1-1 vs Big 10, 1-0 vs Big 12. But yeah, it's just b/c we beat up on the SEC.

Silly ****got, dicks are for chicks

You haven't beaten anyone elite, keep bragging about your wins vs Georgia Tech, Louisville @ Rupp and MSU early in the year when Cassius Winston was grieving over his dead brother.

 

[RondoBaller21]

No they haven't, there are 8 elite teams in my opinion that is a serious resume booster if you have a win against them: KU, Zags, Baylor, Creighton, Nova, Maryland, FSU and Seton Hall

Duke is terrible on the road so I'll add them if you beat them at home in Cameron.

These teams have clearly separated themselves over the past month or so based on their excellent metrics and wins over other great teams.

Kentucky hasn't beaten any of these teams. They've beaten teams their fanbase thinks is good just because they play in the SEC so they must have the "biggest and baddest athletes"!!!!

It's implicit bias working in full steam.

Dude you can’t really believe the garbage you spew. Kentucky is better than duke and probably better than Kansas. It all comes down to matchups and luck, but Kentucky has more talent than any team in college hoops and when they click, can’t be beat.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

You haven't beaten anyone elite, keep bragging about your wins vs Georgia Tech, Louisville @ Rupp and MSU early in the year when Cassius Winston was grieving over his dead brother.

Did you guys beat UL at home? IIRC they rode into town and left with a win. Just saying. I could be wrong. Did UL beat Duke @ Duke?

Also, nice touch on using Wiston's dead brother.

 

[uncfan in ky]

 

[bignish]

Dude you can’t really believe the garbage you spew. Kentucky is better than duke and probably better than Kansas. It all comes down to matchups and luck, but Kentucky has more talent than any team in college hoops and when they click, can’t be beat.

KU would beat UK like a ragged doll. Dotson and Garrett would abuse Hagans and Quickley on the defensive end while Dok would foul out Richards and EJ.

This is just a terrible matchup for UK compounded by the fact that KU is a much better team than Kentucky.

KU would be a 6-8 point favorite over UK on a neutral floor and all the sharp betters will hammer KU.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

KU would beat UK like a ragged doll. Dotson and Garrett would abuse Hagans and Quickley on the defensive end while Dok would foul out Richards and EJ.

This is just a terrible matchup for UK compounded by the fact that KU is a much, much better than Kentucky.

KU would be a 6-8 point favorite over UK on a neutral floor and all the sharp betters will hammer KU.

Opinions are fun.

Also for fun, how would Duke match with KU in a rematch? KU clearly isn't the same team.

Just IYO of course. Same as your UK/KU hypothetical.

 

[schoonerwest]

Opinions are fun.

The last 2 lines of his opinion are closer to fact. They would absolutely be a 5+ point favorite to win and the early money would go heavy on KU.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

The last 2 lines of his opinion are closer to fact. They would absolutely be a 5+ point favorite to win and the early money would go heavy on KU.

Yeah, they're "closer to being fact" than the rest of his imagination.

 

[pyrrhicgorilla]

They're a great defensive team, wait what? This is one of the worst defensive units in the Calipari era.

I agree about the foul shooting but I also think they've been getting lucky in some close games with their opponents making mental mistakes.

Wake would've beaten UK last night if Richards got into foul trouble like Carey did and they shot otherworldly.

UK just hasn't faced any elite teams in a while or mediocre teams that have played way over their heads recently.

^^^ Dude that's literally a meme on this board for being a completely FOS homer is over here writing mini-novels about how mediocre UK is this season. But please, keep acting surprised that almost no one is taking your opinions seriously.

 

[schoonerwest]

Yeah, they're "closer to being fact" than the rest of his imagination.

I mean, it’s the best back court in the nation along with either the best or 2nd best big going head to head. It was discussed earlier but everything points to Kansas being the overwhelming favorite here.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

IMO KU is the best team.

Facts. Duke is getting beat on the road right now to NC State and Wake Forest, while UK is winning @Arkansas, Texas Tech, LSU, UT, A&M.

I was just calling him out on him saying his opinions as facts. He's full of shit.

*I was perfectly fine lurking the thead, until his UK rhetoric.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I mean, it’s the best back court in the nation along with either the best or 2nd best big going head to head. It was discussed earlier but everything points to Kansas being the overwhelming favorite here.

Agree, it would be tremendously embarrassing for you all to not beat UK if we played. You're the clear favorite to win the championship. IMO.

 

[AWilli6995]

Dude you can’t really believe the garbage you spew. Kentucky is better than duke and probably better than Kansas. It all comes down to matchups and luck, but Kentucky has more talent than any team in college hoops and when they click, can’t be beat.

You can say that about 10-15 teams. Also more talent doesn't mean anything when March Madness rolls around.

 

[schoonerwest]

Agree, it would be tremendously embarrassing for you all to not beat UK if we played. You're the clear favorite to win the championship. IMO.

I’d like their chances to beat Kentucky. When Self and Calipari go head to head and have pretty even teams, usually Kansas wins. 3 of Calipari’s wins were when he had his 2 best teams he will ever have. I think Self would roll Cal in this one and it wouldn’t even be close.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I’d like their chances to beat Kentucky. When Self and Calipari go head to head and have pretty even teams, usually Kansas wins. 3 of Calipari’s wins were when he had his 2 best teams he will ever have. I think Self would roll Cal in this one and it wouldn’t even be close.

I think the opposite of that, and it evens it out.

 

[bignish]

Opinions are fun.

Also for fun, how would Duke match with KU in a rematch? KU clearly isn't the same team.

Depends which version of Duke shows up, we're incredibly inconsistent. If we're on, we can keep it close but if we're off, we"ll get blown out.

This isn't an opinion, its just fact. Just because the rest of the field is mediocre, that doesn't mean KU and Baylor are. They're taking care of business by beating weak teams by 15-30 points night in and night out.

 

[bignish]

^^^ Dude that's literally a meme on this board for being a completely FOS homer is over here writing mini-novels about how mediocre UK is this season. But please, keep acting surprised that almost no one is taking your opinions seriously.

I spew facts and logic, don't you have a ref to send death threats to or a bracketologist to stalk?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Depends which version of Duke shows up, we're incredibly inconsistent. If we're on, we can keep it close but if we're off, we"ll get blown out.

This isn't an opinion, its just fact. Just because the rest of the field is mediocre, that doesn't mean KU and Baylor are. They're taking care of business by beating weak teams by 15-30 points night in and night out.

Sorry guy, it's just a sports pet peeve of mine. When someone predicts something as if they know it will be that way, somehow sets me off in a sense.

It's all in fun. Guess away.

 

[pyrrhicgorilla]

I spew facts and logic, don't you have a ref to send death threats to or a bracketologist to stalk?

Nah, I'm not a try-hard like you.

 

[bignish]

Nah, I'm not a try-hard like you.

Not a try-hard yet you wandered over to this thread and felt like calling me out...cool.

 

[Big_Blue79]

KU would be a 6-8 point favorite over UK on a neutral floor and all the sharp betters will hammer KU.

They'd be a bigger favorite, so if the line was -6 I would expect sharps to hammer it, yeah. Kansas is better than UK this year, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad matchup. They're just better overall. It happens (although query whether it's easier or harder to stand out metrics in a year of great parity, like this year, or a top loaded year like 2015 or 2008).

Anecdotally, I think that UK's better than their KenPom rating because of how they've let teams like LSU (and Florida, IIRC) close the gap at the end of games when the result was all but in the bag (part of the gripes about your coach thread is how Cal slows the game down way too early). For example, they led LSU by 11 with less than 2 minutes left and won by 3. Those types of situations - pressing, 3 point shots, intentional fouling - are high variance by design. A few of those going the other way (i.e. UK wins that game by 19, not 3, the same 8 point swing) can make a big difference in rank even if the rating doesn't change much: supposedly elite Seton Hall is only 2 points better in KenPom's adjusted efficiency margin, there's only a 2.5 point spread between #15 and #28 (i.e. less than home court advantage), and even #8 Maryland is only 4 points in adjusted EM away. But this UK team does not pull away from anyone, really, so they're vulnerable to an upset in a tournament setting.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I spew facts and logic, don't you have a ref to send death threats to or a bracketologist to stalk?

 

[pyrrhicgorilla]

Not a try-hard yet you wandered over to this thread and felt like calling me out...cool.

2,000+ mini-novels on a college basketball message board and you're NOT a try-hard? Ok Mr. big "Tier" nish...