Do you hold the door open for strangers?

[LetsGoDuke301]

To be honest, a majority of what Mitch McConnell stands for, and represents is outrageous to me. He’s pretty far right in my book.

Of course there are extreme politicians on the right, but that's not what I am talking about.

Some far righties think all abortion should be illegal (even in the case of rape). I think that's as dumb as some of the far lefties that think viable/uncomplicated 3rd trimester abortion should be the mother's choice still.

This is a fair example, but I am more talking about extreme social stances that are unreasonable. Like having the term "master bedroom" replaced by "owner's suite". Stuff like that.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I have to say, I get so weirded out by guys who froth over "feminists". A "feminist" is a person who thinks women are fundamentally equal to men and should be treated as such in areas such as education and employment. I can't imagine any normal male NOT being a feminist. If your mother was worth a damn, you should be a feminist.

Guys can be so painfully insecure and strange at times.

I don't think the average Joe has a problem with women being fundamentally equal to their men counterparts. It's the ones who take it to the extreme by trying too hard to prove they are equal in every sense that I would call a feminist. The fact is, there are some things that men can do that women simply can't. And there is nothing wrong with that. There are things that women do that men can't. Men and women were not created to be equal. We were created to be polar opposites. I think if feminists were to focuse on equality where it is fair and reasonable, they would have the support of anyone who matters.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Good thing the far right is extremely "reasonable"

Never said there weren't issues there. Although, I believe the far left is far more dangerous at this time.

 

[JimboBBN]

Yeah, I don't really consider someone who thinks we should all be equal a feminist. I think that is just a reasonable person. I think, fair or not, the extreme people in this country have changed our labels (or at least the way we perceive them). It is also kind of specific to the person using it I guess.

I also would think a man complaining about a person holding the door as silly as this woman. I'm not sure those people exist. I don't doubt it but have just never heard that. There are silly people around though so probably.

Exactly. Its reasonable and fair to give men and women the same opportunities. Its downright crazy to think men and women can do exactly the same things, though. As well as be offended by the word mankind

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Vive la différence


Men and women are different as we have a different function. We should celebrate the difference instead of trying to negate it. The feminist movement is now divisive as basically both are equals. Identity wars are so stupid. Changing our language to mitigate possible difference is stupid.

 

[viviajm]

Me, I hold the door open for anyone who is in close proximity to me. Doesn't matter if they are male, female, white, black or other. Tranny, gay and/or a unc fan.

So what is wrong with some people where men are assholes for opening the door for women? I always thought you were an asshole for not opening the door, not only for women, but anyone else.

Nathan E Michael knows what's up.

I'm with you. I also say a couple friendly words.

 

[TheDude1]

I don't think the average Joe has a problem with women being fundamentally equal to their men counterparts. It's the ones who take it to the extreme by trying too hard to prove they are equal in every sense that I would call a feminist. The fact is, there are some things that men can do that women simply can't. And there is nothing wrong with that. There are things that women do that men can't. Men and women were not created to be equal. We were created to be polar opposites. I think if feminists were to focuse on equality where it is fair and reasonable, they would have the support of anyone who matters.

Hm. A lot there.

First, yes, I think many people do have some issues with the idea of men and women being fundamentally equal.

Second, yes, obviously there are things men can do that women cannot, and stuff that women can do that men cannot. However, those things are pretty limited. Give birth, nurse... uh... not sure what else is determined by gender, in terms of what people cannot do. Sure, it might be harder for women to do things and harder for men to do some things, but...

We are most assuredly NOT polar opposites. That's lunacy. Men and women share nearly everything. The differences are MUCH fewer than the similarities.

And feminists DO tend to focus on equality where it is fair. The majority of feminists I know focus on issues of wages, job opportunity, political clout, and so on. YOU might not think it is reasonable, but that's your opinion. And that's the real issue here; people who think THEY know what is reasonable for women to want, and who do not listen to or give credit to women who say that no, what they are looking for isn't the same as what you are looking for.


Frankly, I think some conservatives have this radical vision of what a feminist is... some hairy legged, pussy-hat wearing angry lesbian... and have created this bizarre boogeyman that is as much a lefty minority as a neo-nazi is a righty minority.

Every single damn guy on here should be a feminist. Every single one of you.

 

[TheDude1]

Eh, I think there's a difference between thinking men and women should have equal opportunities and being a feminist, or at least an extreme feminist. Like trying to have the word "man" taken out of everything because it offends you.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/purdue-avoid-words-with-man-in-them/

See, this makes me think of when my wife and I watched Wonder Woman. She THOROUGHLY enjoyed it, and she generally hates superhero movies. When I asked why, she tried to explain it to me... she basically said that for her ENTIRE LIFE just about every single action movie she sees is about a guy. Like, nearly every single one. And she just could not connect at all with it. She asked me this; how would I react if every single action movie I saw had a cast of nearly entirely women, except for maybe a token guy who was just there to be hot. I had to admit, it would be strange. She pointed out that, as a woman, that has been her entire life.

So it might just be that women who see "policeman" and think 'Well, why? Why isn't it police officer, since women put their lives on the line every day in that job?" and they might see it a bit differently than you and I, two younger white males.

And all of this "extreme feminist" thing feels silly. Feminist. It's a thing. 99 percent of feminists are not some wacko. So I think we need to stop throwing stones at the term "feminist." It makes us guys look douchey.

 

[JimboBBN]

See, this makes me think of when my wife and I watched Wonder Woman. She THOROUGHLY enjoyed it, and she generally hates superhero movies. When I asked why, she tried to explain it to me... she basically said that for her ENTIRE LIFE just about every single action movie she sees is about a guy. Like, nearly every single one. And she just could not connect at all with it. She asked me this; how would I react if every single action movie I saw had a cast of nearly entirely women, except for maybe a token guy who was just there to be hot. I had to admit, it would be strange. She pointed out that, as a woman, that has been her entire life.

So it might just be that women who see "policeman" and think 'Well, why? Why isn't it police officer, since women put their lives on the line every day in that job?" and they might see it a bit differently than you and I, two younger white males.

And all of this "extreme feminist" thing feels silly. Feminist. It's a thing. 99 percent of feminists are not some wacko. So I think we need to stop throwing stones at the term "feminist." It makes us guys look douchey.

There are a ton of whacko feminists out there, not sure I agree with that number. I also think its common sense that women and men should get the same opportunities in work, education, and other things like that. Where I think the line is crossed to that "crazy" side, is when a someone takes the time to question the title we give someone instead of the reason that person is there doing their job. Mankind is a thing, it shouldn't offend anyone. But for some reason, it does. Its the world we live in.

 

[Dattier]

Yeah, I don't really consider someone who thinks we should all be equal a feminist. I think that is just a reasonable person. I think, fair or not, the extreme people in this country have changed our labels (or at least the way we perceive them). It is also kind of specific to the person using it I guess.

No, that's an accurate definition of what a feminist is, though yes, such definitions get warped by extremists. It's women who have had to fight for equality in society, so raising up the "fem-" is how we achieve equity, just like "Black Lives Matters" works on the premise that others are known to matter already.

I also would think a man complaining about a person holding the door as silly as this woman. I'm not sure those people exist. I don't doubt it but have just never heard that. There are silly people around though so probably.

On average, I wonder if people would be equally outraged as they are by this woman.

 

[HRTheCard]

3 pages for a simple question. It's the off-season

 

[Dattier]

Never said there weren't issues there. Although, I believe the far left is far more dangerous at this time.

Is that influenced by your own right-of-center tendencies?
B/c I think the opposite, and I'm fully aware that my left-of-center tendencies may be a factor in that perception.

 

[I am stupid]

One side wants to limit peoples rights and the other side wants to limit peoples rights.


Both are bad if you ask me.

 

[TheDude1]

There are a ton of whacko feminists out there, not sure I agree with that number. I also think its common sense that women and men should get the same opportunities in work, education, and other things like that. Where I think the line is crossed to that "crazy" side, is when a someone takes the time to question the title we give someone instead of the reason that person is there doing their job. Mankind is a thing, it shouldn't offend anyone. But for some reason, it does. Its the world we live in.

Sure, it might be common, but dude, the world isn't that way. Look at our government; almost entirely men. Look at our Fortune 500 companies; run almost entirely by men. Look at our richest people list... almost entirely men.

Now, some people might say "Well, that's because women are inferior."

Others look at that and say "Well, yeah. Women generally have not gotten the same chances that men have had over the decades that helped create those different institutions."

So you might say it is "common sense" but in reality our world doesn't operate that way; for centuries the "common sense" has resulted in women not getting the same shots as men in nearly every single avenue of our society.

As for "mankind" being a thing... well, it kind of isn't. It is just an invented term for all of humanity, but yes, one that includes the word "man" and that was created by men in a time when men ran... well, everything. The idea of some women feeling that it is a bit exclusive and wanting to change it to "humankind" makes total sense to me.

I think you and I have lived our life and seen things from our own point of view. There are a number of people who have lived THEIR lives and see things from a different point of view, and I think it is worth considering when they say "Hey, this feels wrong" even if you (and yes, sometimes I) disagree.

 

[TheDude1]

And Jimbo, I look at that article you linked, about Purdue, and I just dont get why its a big deal. Changing "mankind" to "humanity" or "people" or "human beings" makes sense to me. So does replacing "man-made" with "synthetic" or "manufactured." First, they are more accurate statements. Second, if some people feel like these terms are excluding of people, why NOT use other terms? It doesn't hurt me to use different terms. It doesn't hurt you. So why not?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Frankly, I think some conservatives have this radical vision of what a feminist is... some hairy legged, pussy-hat wearing angry lesbian... and have created this bizarre boogeyman that is as much a lefty minority as a neo-nazi is a righty minority.

Yeah, where could we have gotten that idea?

 

[anon_0astpxev9h4gk]

Never said there weren't issues there. Although, I believe the far left is far more dangerous at this time.

You sure about that?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

You sure about that?

Is he sure that he believes that? I'm sure that he is sure that he believes it.

 

[TheDude1]

Yeah, I don't really consider someone who thinks we should all be equal a feminist. I think that is just a reasonable person. I think, fair or not, the extreme people in this country have changed our labels (or at least the way we perceive them). It is also kind of specific to the person using it I guess.

I also would think a man complaining about a person holding the door as silly as this woman. I'm not sure those people exist. I don't doubt it but have just never heard that. There are silly people around though so probably.

Yes, the extreme people have changed our labels. Extreme lefties have made extreme righties all upset about a pretty innocuous term... although if you really look at it, the REAL first issue was extreme righties getting upset at REGULAR WOMEN thinking they should be able to own property and vote. I am going to assume you all know your American history.

I looked up feminist; it is someone who believes in feminism. So I looked up feminism; here you go.

feminism: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

I would LOVE to see people here say "Well shit, sure, I suppose I am a feminist, because I do believe the sexes should be politically, economically, and socially equal. I do get weirded out by some of the pushed-by-my-media stories I see about people who push that to the absolute uncomfortable max, but sure, I'm a feminist."

Instead people seem to revel in attacking feminists and women and all of this.

Whatever.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Milo is a provocateur through and through but his response to a feminist here talking about the slight-of-hand feminists do is great.

 

[TheDude1]

You sure about that?

Hah! That's so awesome The far left is SO damn dangerous, with their whole "tranny men in the women's bathrooms!" and "gays adopting babies!" and "call us HUMANS, not MANKIND!"

But the heavily armed militias out in the woods... those guys aren't dangerous at all.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Yes, the extreme people have changed our labels. Extreme lefties have made extreme righties all upset about a pretty innocuous term... although if you really look at it, the REAL first issue was extreme righties getting upset at REGULAR WOMEN thinking they should be able to own property and vote. I am going to assume you all know your American history.

I looked up feminist; it is someone who believes in feminism. So I looked up feminism; here you go.

feminism: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

I would LOVE to see people here say "Well shit, sure, I suppose I am a feminist, because I do believe the sexes should be politically, economically, and socially equal. I do get weirded out by some of the pushed-by-my-media stories I see about people who push that to the absolute uncomfortable max, but sure, I'm a feminist."

Instead people seem to revel in attacking feminists and women and all of this.

Whatever.

Sadly, feminism has transformed into something different. Modern feminists destroyed the term. Don't blame conservatives for that.

 

[JimboBBN]

Sure, it might be common, but dude, the world isn't that way. Look at our government; almost entirely men. Look at our Fortune 500 companies; run almost entirely by men. Look at our richest people list... almost entirely men.

Now, some people might say "Well, that's because women are inferior."

Others look at that and say "Well, yeah. Women generally have not gotten the same chances that men have had over the decades that helped create those different institutions."

So you might say it is "common sense" but in reality our world doesn't operate that way; for centuries the "common sense" has resulted in women not getting the same shots as men in nearly every single avenue of our society.

As for "mankind" being a thing... well, it kind of isn't. It is just an invented term for all of humanity, but yes, one that includes the word "man" and that was created by men in a time when men ran... well, everything. The idea of some women feeling that it is a bit exclusive and wanting to change it to "humankind" makes total sense to me.

I think you and I have lived our life and seen things from our own point of view. There are a number of people who have lived THEIR lives and see things from a different point of view, and I think it is worth considering when they say "Hey, this feels wrong" even if you (and yes, sometimes I) disagree.

But I never said men should have more jobs in government or anything. I said its common sense we all should have the same opportunities, I didn't say it was actually that way. But it SHOULD be that way is how I see it, and I think most people would agree with that.

I think if the word man or mankind bothers you enough to try and build your grammar around it you are most definitely part of a bigger problem and much less part of any sort of solution.

 

[JimboBBN]

And Jimbo, I look at that article you linked, about Purdue, and I just dont get why its a big deal. Changing "mankind" to "humanity" or "people" or "human beings" makes sense to me. So does replacing "man-made" with "synthetic" or "manufactured." First, they are more accurate statements. Second, if some people feel like these terms are excluding of people, why NOT use other terms? It doesn't hurt me to use different terms. It doesn't hurt you. So why not?

It doesn't hurt me, it hurts me that we have to go so far out of the way to try and not hurt people's fragile feelings. Those words weren't meant to offend anyone, but much like many other words or things today, one or two people find them offensive, and the rest of the progressives take off with it because that's what progressives do.

 

[coryfly]

I don't care at all about the 'mankind' think but also have no issues with people thinking it is silly to change it. My wife thinks it is silly to have an issue with mankind and she is a successful professional liberal woman who I'm pretty sure cares about equal rights.



Dat, as for outrage, I don't feel like people would be any less outraged by your scenario (could be wrong though). I think it is just something people think is silly because someone posted it here. I think most of us would find it even more ridiculous if it was a man tbh. I also think the number of people who feel the way this woman does is quite small, which kind of makes this whole discussion just message board nonsense. But, that is what we do best, lol.

 

[Dattier]

...it hurts me that we have to go so far out of the way to try and not hurt people's fragile feelings. Those words weren't meant to offend anyone, but much like many other words or things today, one or two people find them offensive, and the rest of the progressives take off with it because that's what progressives do.

Lots of shading here. Is it really so far out of your way? Is intention the only factor in whether offense is valid? Is it really just one or two people?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Hah! That's so awesome The far left is SO damn dangerous, with their whole "tranny men in the women's bathrooms!" and "gays adopting babies!" and "call us HUMANS, not MANKIND!"

But the heavily armed militias out in the woods... those guys aren't dangerous at all.

Yes, I couldn't the leftist support of (especially late term) abortions to be more dangerous than militia in the woods. How many lives do militia in the woods take each year?

 

[Dattier]

Dat, as for outrage, I don't feel like people would be any less outraged by your scenario (could be wrong though). I think it is just something people think is silly because someone posted it here. I think most of us would find it even more ridiculous if it was a man tbh. I also think the number of people who feel the way this woman does is quite small, which kind of makes this whole discussion just message board nonsense. But, that is what we do best, lol.

I suspect a lot of guys here would relate and accept it.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Lots of shading here. Is it really so far out of your way? Is intention the only factor in whether offense is valid? Is it really just one or two people?

The word Dattier offends me. Please create a new username.

 

[JimboBBN]

Lots of shading here. Is it really so far out of your way? Is intention the only factor in whether offense is valid? Is it really just one or two people?

Yup, I'm not going to stop saying man because it hurts your feelings. Like, think about that for a second. Man. That hurts you? I'm so glad I won't be alive in 80 years, I roll my eyes at how soft we will become by then.

 

[TheDude1]

I think if the word man or mankind bothers you enough to try and build your grammar around it you are most definitely part of a bigger problem and much less part of any sort of solution.

I don't know... that strikes me as a BIG statement. I think it's pretty easy to say "Hey, as a woman it feels strange to call myself 'mankind'... why not just call ourselves 'human beings' or whatever?" and I certainly don't see that as being part of a bigger problem and less a sort of solution. Words matter, and how we phrase things and say things DOES have a subtle impact on our world.

 

[TheDude1]

Yup, I'm not going to stop saying man because it hurts your feelings. Like, think about that for a second. Man. That hurts you? I'm so glad I won't be alive in 80 years, I roll my eyes at how soft we will become by then.

Really?! So you take a stand on a word that YOU say is meaningless and has no value even if it has value to someone else? That's strange to me. I take the opposite stance; if it doesn't matter one way or another to me, I'll change it if it matters to YOU.

 

[Dattier]

Yes, I couldn't the leftist support of (especially late term) abortions to be more dangerous than militia in the woods. How many lives do militia in the woods take each year?

Very misleading. Late-term abortions are almost always women who had wanted a child, but learned it was unviable.

And the entire premise of whether abortions should be legal or not hinges on whether a fetus is a child. Legally, scientifically, it is not. You're entitled to another opinion, but you are not entitled to enter your opinion into the discussion as fact.

 

[JimboBBN]

Really?! So you take a stand on a word that YOU say is meaningless and has no value even if it has value to someone else? That's strange to me. I take the opposite stance; if it doesn't matter one way or another to me, I'll change it if it matters to YOU.

If that word is man, then yes. I will not succumb to your strange and meaningless requests to not use that word. There are other words that I feel different about, obviously. The N word or F word describing a gay person. I totally get why those would be offensive. Man? Mankind? You've got to be kidding me.

 

[JimboBBN]

I don't know... that strikes me as a BIG statement. I think it's pretty easy to say "Hey, as a woman it feels strange to call myself 'mankind'... why not just call ourselves 'human beings' or whatever?" and I certainly don't see that as being part of a bigger problem and less a sort of solution. Words matter, and how we phrase things and say things DOES have a subtle impact on our world.

You can't even say human, though. Man is in that word, and that's offensive!! Have to change it to something else.

 

[ThePhog08]

Me, I hold the door open for anyone who is in close proximity to me. Doesn't matter if they are male, female, white, black or other. Tranny, gay and/or a unc fan.

So what is wrong with some people where men are assholes for opening the door for women? I always thought you were an asshole for not opening the door, not only for women, but anyone else.

Nathan E Michael knows what's up.

I open doors for everyone

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Very misleading. Late-term abortions are almost always women who had wanted a child, but learned it was unviable.

And the entire premise of whether abortions should be legal or not hinges on whether a fetus is a child. Legally, scientifically, it is not. You're entitled to another opinion, but you are not entitled to enter your opinion into the discussion as fact.

My opinion is that it is a life and that taking those lives is more dangerous than militia in the woods. Fair?

 

[Dattier]

Yup, I'm not going to stop saying man because it hurts your feelings. Like, think about that for a second. Man. That hurts you? I'm so glad I won't be alive in 80 years, I roll my eyes at how soft we will become by then.

Well, it doesn't hurt me, but is it really that difficult to say "human" instead? Is it really unreasonable for women -- who have been historically oppressed and still don't have full equity in many important ways -- to prefer a more inclusive term? If you called me by the wrong name, I'd correct you. It's a bit hypocritical to act like they're making such a big deal out of something so trivial, yet dig your own heels in so adamantly.

It's not "PC." It's accuracy and decency.

 

[JimboBBN]

Well, it doesn't hurt me, but is it really that difficult to say "human" instead? Is it really unreasonable for women -- who have been historically oppressed and still don't have full equity in many important ways -- to prefer a more inclusive term? If you called me by the wrong name, I'd correct you. It's a bit hypocritical to act like they're making such a big deal out of something so trivial, yet dig your own heels in so adamantly.

It's not "PC." It's accuracy and decency.

Mankind was accurate for years and years until someone got in their feelings about it. And now its not okay. Its very PC. Like the definition of PC.

 

[Dattier]

My opinion is that it is a life and that taking those lives is more dangerous than militia in the woods. Fair?

Sure, it's fair, but it's pointless to inject it into this discussion.