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MrBaracus said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but excluding KU and Kentucky, the B12 has 236 tourney wins and the SEC 214.

Funny that it's suddenly acceptable to use the modern era timeframe. You guys completely dismiss that when it's used to compare individual programs to Kentucky.

The SEC is still one good program and a bunch of bad or average teams. Florida had some good years under Donovan. Now they're back to average. Auburn catching lightning in a bottle doesn't mean they've suddenly "arrived." They're more likely to go the way of South Carolina than to develop into a perennial contender.

Two football conferences. One elite program in each. And one league has been dominated head to head. Sorry, the facts are the facts. Spin it all you want, but it's kinda pathetic.
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We can use whatever era you want to use. I said modern era because I knew you would have something to say if I brought up UK's ancient titles.

You can rag on the SEC all you want, but 7 SEC teams have made recent final fours compared to 3 for the big 12.

As far as tournament wins. That's easily explained. For many years, the SEC got shit on by the committee. There were years when only 2 or 3 SEC teams made the field. But the big12 got undeserved respect and consistently gets 5+ teams in, if not damn close to the entire conference.

Plus, those big 12 teams have been getting higher seeds than the few "sucky SEC" teams that get in.

So with fewer teams and worse seeds, the SEC has more teams that have accomplished more.

So Auburn caught lighting in a bottle huh? Do I get to use that same stance for Texas Tech?

Personally, I think both programs will be perennial threats.
 
MrBaracus said:
But the format has also kept out Missouri and some other terrible programs, so it's worked in your favor as well.

And LSU and Auburn participating the last few years would hardly make up the 10 game deficit.
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Hilarious, it doesn't work that way man, you go year by year, you don't total up wins and losses for all years. That's crazy.

LSU won the SEC regular season this year, Auburn won the tournament and made the FF, so yeah, those teams not playing made a huge difference.

Auburn won the SEC regular season in 2018, didn't play in the challenge.

So Missouri was down last year, doesn't mean they couldn't win their game.

Bottom line is, the SEC is fighting with one hand behind its back.
 
della said:
Barnes is bringing in much higher rated recruits than what he had to support his accomplishments, so far.

It is sensible to believe that he will continue to have UT performing at a high level over all.
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There’s a trade off with those higher rated recruits. If you’re to be successful relying on stud freshman you need a lot of them, and they need to be really good really soon. And you’ll find that a lot of them that aren’t quite good enough to lead a college team to anything meaningful are somehow still good enough to get drafted in the lottery. That’s just where we are in college basketball right now. It’s happening everywhere.
 
kyjeff1 said:
Hilarious, it doesn't work that way man, you go year by year, you don't total up wins and losses for all years. That's crazy.

LSU won the SEC regular season this year, Auburn won the tournament and made the FF, so yeah, those teams not playing made a huge difference.

Auburn won the SEC regular season in 2018, didn't play in the challenge.

So Missouri was down last year, doesn't mean they couldn't win their game.

Bottom line is, the SEC is fighting with one hand behind its back.
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It's crazy? It's just a fact. What's crazy is you guys spouting off your 22-9 crap in every other post, as if a pile of wins over Ted Owens is relevant to today's matchups.

Even if those teams participated last year and the SEC won, it would still be only two wins in 6 years. Including two seasons in which they dropped 7 of 10 games. If the SEC has been the superior league, that probably doesn't happen. A good league doesn't go 1-30 vs ranked teams in non-con games, either. That's as pitiful as it gets.

You fail to acknowledge that the really shitty SEC teams have generally been left out of the challenge, too. Or the fact that Kentucky has had the advantage of more home games vs KU, etc.

Weak spin is weak spin.
 
Montana81 said:
There’s a trade off with those higher rated recruits. If you’re to be successful relying on stud freshman you need a lot of them, and they need to be really good really soon. And you’ll find that a lot of them that aren’t quite good enough to lead a college team to anything meaningful are somehow still good enough to get drafted in the lottery. That’s just where we are in college basketball right now. It’s happening everywhere.
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Less than a handful of coaches can make it work on an elite level.
 
kyjeff1 said:
We can use whatever era you want to use. I said modern era because I knew you would have something to say if I brought up UK's ancient titles.

You can rag on the SEC all you want, but 7 SEC teams have made recent final fours compared to 3 for the big 12.

As far as tournament wins. That's easily explained. For many years, the SEC got shit on by the committee. There were years when only 2 or 3 SEC teams made the field. But the big12 got undeserved respect and consistently gets 5+ teams in, if not damn close to the entire conference.

Plus, those big 12 teams have been getting higher seeds than the few "sucky SEC" teams that get in.

So with fewer teams and worse seeds, the SEC has more teams that have accomplished more.

So Auburn caught lighting in a bottle huh? Do I get to use that same stance for Texas Tech?

Personally, I think both programs will be perennial threats.
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Kentucky's ancient titles have nothing to do with it because we're talking about the rest of the league.

Ah, I'm so glad it's been established that the SEC would have a plethora of tourney wins if only all their powerhouses hadn't been left out of the field due to NCAA committee conspiracy each year. Can't make this stuff up...

Nevermind the fact that you're talking about a few recent seasons, and I'm talking about the entire tourney history. Just laughable.

Beard is clearly a great coach. Pearl has been around forever and is a known commodity. Good coach, but no one's scared of him. I can guarantee if you had to wager on the better program going forward, your money would be on Texas Tech.
 
MrBaracus said:
It's crazy? It's just a fact. What's crazy is you guys spouting off your 22-9 crap in every other post, as if a pile of wins over Ted Owens is relevant to today's matchups.

Even if those teams participated last year and the SEC won, it would still be only two wins in 6 years. Including two seasons in which they dropped 7 of 10 games. If the SEC has been the superior league, that probably doesn't happen. A good league doesn't go 1-30 vs ranked teams in non-con games, either. That's as pitiful as it gets.

You fail to acknowledge that the really shitty SEC teams have generally been left out of the challenge, too. Or the fact that Kentucky has had the advantage of more home games vs KU, etc.

Weak spin is weak spin.
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23-9
 
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RipThru said:
It appears that UK and it’s fans have very different goals than UT and their fans.
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We've moved on from beating UT. They're blips on our radar now.

I genuinely understand their point of view. They have little chance of reaching a FF, so they take what they can get.

*i mixed in a little more arrogance because I know how much they love it.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
We've moved on from beating UT. They're blips on our radar now.

I genuinely understand their point of view. They have little chance of reaching a FF, so they take what they can get.

*i mixed in a little more arrogance because I know how much they love it.
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Lol. Last few pages of this thread really show how Uk has moved past beating UT.

“Well yeah you have been beating us the last few season, but as we have repeatedly told you the last Few off seasons, that will not occur again next season.”
 
MrBaracus said:
It's crazy? It's just a fact. What's crazy is you guys spouting off your 22-9 crap in every other post, as if a pile of wins over Ted Owens is relevant to today's matchups.

Even if those teams participated last year and the SEC won, it would still be only two wins in 6 years. Including two seasons in which they dropped 7 of 10 games. If the SEC has been the superior league, that probably doesn't happen. A good league doesn't go 1-30 vs ranked teams in non-con games, either. That's as pitiful as it gets.

You fail to acknowledge that the really shitty SEC teams have generally been left out of the challenge, too. Or the fact that Kentucky has had the advantage of more home games vs KU, etc.

Weak spin is weak spin.
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I don't recall bringing up 22-9, but you just did for some reason. Has nothing at all to do with what we are talking about, but you do you.

So, losses in January on the road mean more than neutral court success in the NCAAT to you? Interesting.

Great, the BIG12 has outperformed the SEC in the January challenge, but you can't argue that the SEC, historically and recently, has far more tournament success than the BIG12. You can't deny that. Take a poll, I bet you the only people that say regular season success is more important than tournament success is KU fans.

I expect nothing less from KU fans though, y'all only have 3 titles as a blue blood program, so all you guys hype is regular season wins and BIG12 titles.

Lastly, the SEC was down for a while. The league was really good in the 90's with UK, Arkansas and LSU, but then took a dive for a while. The BIG12 will eventually go through a phase like that too. Take a look at the league, up until last season, the league was dominated by one program, the rest of them were good programs that just kind of stayed in a pack. None of them were really bad, they were all just good teams that were good enough to make the field of 64.

So it all comes down to what you value in a league. I like the trajectory of both leagues. The SEC has really upgraded its coaching (added Buzz this year) and has noticeably improved the last 5 years. Auburn, South Carolina, Florida, UT and LSU are all surging.

The BIG12 has some programs starting to rise. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, KSU and… .I'm forgetting someone.

I value tournament success, you value regular season success, that's weird, but you're a KU fan, so I understand.
 
MrBaracus said:
Kentucky's ancient titles have nothing to do with it because we're talking about the rest of the league.

Ah, I'm so glad it's been established that the SEC would have a plethora of tourney wins if only all their powerhouses hadn't been left out of the field due to NCAA committee conspiracy each year. Can't make this stuff up...

Nevermind the fact that you're talking about a few recent seasons, and I'm talking about the entire tourney history. Just laughable.

Beard is clearly a great coach. Pearl has been around forever and is a known commodity. Good coach, but no one's scared of him. I can guarantee if you had to wager on the better program going forward, your money would be on Texas Tech.
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Mmmm, I would wager on Auburn being the better program going forward tbh. But I would not be surprised if TT took over as king of the BIG12 and ended up being a much better program than Auburn. I just need to see more from Beard to put my chips down on him.

We have seen this before. We've seen coaches look brilliant in one season, then fall flat on their face.

Bruce Pearl turned Tennessee around in short order and got them to an E8 (before the bbq). Now he's taken Auburn to a final four and tbh, Auburn really won that FF game. He did it with undersized players that just wanted it more.

But like I said, I need to see more from Beard before I truly believe in his abilities. Players need to perform and he had a great team last season.
 
kyjeff1 said:
Mmmm, I would wager on Auburn being the better program going forward tbh. But I would not be surprised if TT took over as king of the BIG12 and ended up being a much better program than Auburn. I just need to see more from Beard to put my chips down on him.

We have seen this before. We've seen coaches look brilliant in one season, then fall flat on their face.

Bruce Pearl turned Tennessee around in short order and got them to an E8 (before the bbq). Now he's taken Auburn to a final four and tbh, Auburn really won that FF game. He did it with undersized players that just wanted it more.

But like I said, I need to see more from Beard before I truly believe in his abilities. Players need to perform and he had a great team last season.
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Everything you post has such a blatant bias, it’s hilarious.

You’d have to be the only person on the planet who would pick Auburn to be better than Texas Tech going forward.

Great team last season? He had a bunch of nobodies around one star (who was a former 2 star recruit himself). Now he’s getting legitimate talent.

Pearl has had a solid career. Nothing remarkable. He did nothing more at Tennessee than the coach you look down upon is doing right now. HE is the coach who had a great roster last year (and underachieved all throughout the regular season btw) and has a lot to prove going forward.

What Beard has done in such a short time is remarkable. His Little Rock team became immediately competitive in his lone year there then returned to a doormat when he left. Perennial doormat Texas Tech became a top 10 team in year 2 and nearly won the national title in year 3.

Care to place a bet on which coach wins more in the tourney or overall in the next 5 years?
 
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kyjeff1 said:
I don't recall bringing up 22-9, but you just did for some reason. Has nothing at all to do with what we are talking about, but you do you.

So, losses in January on the road mean more than neutral court success in the NCAAT to you? Interesting.

Great, the BIG12 has outperformed the SEC in the January challenge, but you can't argue that the SEC, historically and recently, has far more tournament success than the BIG12. You can't deny that. Take a poll, I bet you the only people that say regular season success is more important than tournament success is KU fans.

I expect nothing less from KU fans though, y'all only have 3 titles as a blue blood program, so all you guys hype is regular season wins and BIG12 titles.

Lastly, the SEC was down for a while. The league was really good in the 90's with UK, Arkansas and LSU, but then took a dive for a while. The BIG12 will eventually go through a phase like that too. Take a look at the league, up until last season, the league was dominated by one program, the rest of them were good programs that just kind of stayed in a pack. None of them were really bad, they were all just good teams that were good enough to make the field of 64.

So it all comes down to what you value in a league. I like the trajectory of both leagues. The SEC has really upgraded its coaching (added Buzz this year) and has noticeably improved the last 5 years. Auburn, South Carolina, Florida, UT and LSU are all surging.

The BIG12 has some programs starting to rise. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, KSU and… .I'm forgetting someone.

I value tournament success, you value regular season success, that's weird, but you're a KU fan, so I understand.
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Shouldn’t even address this stupidity, but what the hell. As usual, you try to “win” an argument by putting absurd words in the other party’s mouth. That and blatantly making things up.

I’ve never said anything along the lines of regular season success being more important, but nice try.

That said, regular season performance can tell us more about a coach’s ability, for the simple reason that 30+ games are a bit larger sample than a tourney set. We all know that Tony Bennett and Jay Wright are great coaches, despite the fact that both have flamed out in the tourney more often than not.

As for not being able to dispute that the SEC has had far more tourney success historically? I just pointed out that the Big 12 has more tourney wins all-time. So yeah, that opinion can definitely be disputed.

Again, I’m not factoring in Kentucky’s or KU’s tourney wins, because they don’t play themselves. The idea is to gauge the strength of their competition over the years.
 
MrBaracus said:
Everything you post has such a blatant bias, it’s hikarious.

You’d have to be the only person on the planet who would pick Auburn to be better than Texas Tech going forward.

Great team last season? He had a bunch of nobodies around one star (who was a former 2 star recruit himself). Now he’s getting legitimate talent.

Pearl has had a solid career. Nothing remarkable. He did nothing more at Tennessee than the coach you look down upon is doing right now. HE is the coach who had a great roster last year (and underachieved all throughout the regular season btw) and has a lot to prove going forward.

What Beard has done in such a short time is remarkable. His Little Rock team became immediately competitive in his lone year there then returned to a doormat when he left. Perennial doormat Texas Tech became a top 10 team in year 2 and nearly won the national title in year 3.

Care to place a bet on which coach wins more in the tourney or overall in the next 5 years?
Click to expand...

I would place a hefty bet on who he would’ve chosen before the Uk/Auburn tourney game (since they smacked them twice) or had they beaten them in the tourney. Definitely not the team that starts with an A
 
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Not to change the subject back to the actual subject of the thread but

Hmmmmmmmm
 
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MrBaracus said:
Everything you post has such a blatant bias, it’s hilarious.

You’d have to be the only person on the planet who would pick Auburn to be better than Texas Tech going forward.

Great team last season? He had a bunch of nobodies around one star (who was a former 2 star recruit himself). Now he’s getting legitimate talent.

Pearl has had a solid career. Nothing remarkable. He did nothing more at Tennessee than the coach you look down upon is doing right now. HE is the coach who had a great roster last year (and underachieved all throughout the regular season btw) and has a lot to prove going forward.

What Beard has done in such a short time is remarkable. His Little Rock team became immediately competitive in his lone year there then returned to a doormat when he left. Perennial doormat Texas Tech became a top 10 team in year 2 and nearly won the national title in year 3.

Care to place a bet on which coach wins more in the tourney or overall in the next 5 years?
Click to expand...
Wow, pot meet kettle.
 
MrBaracus said:
Shouldn’t even address this stupidity, but what the hell. As usual, you try to “win” an argument by putting absurd words in the other party’s mouth. That and blatantly making things up.

I’ve never said anything along the lines of regular season success being more important, but nice try.

That said, regular season performance can tell us more about a coach’s ability, for the simple reason that 30+ games are a bit larger sample than a tourney set. We all know that Tony Bennett and Jay Wright are great coaches, despite the fact that both have flamed out in the tourney more often than not.

As for not being able to dispute that the SEC has had far more tourney success historically? I just pointed out that the Big 12 has more tourney wins all-time. So yeah, that opinion can definitely be disputed.

Again, I’m not factoring in Kentucky’s or KU’s tourney wins, because they don’t play themselves. The idea is to gauge the strength of their competition over the years.
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The two bolded sentences… .hilarious.
 
HRTheCard said:
I would place a hefty bet on who he would’ve chosen before the Uk/Auburn tourney game (since they smacked them twice) or had they beaten them in the tourney. Definitely not the team that starts with an A
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There's only one game over year that I would bet on, because it's a sure win every time for UK.

I heard Vegas was going to stop offering betting lines on the UK vs UL basketball games, because it's become too predictable.
 
kyjeff1 said:
There's only one game over year that I would bet on, because it's a sure win every time for UK.

I heard Vegas was going to stop offering betting lines on the UK vs UL basketball games, because it's become too predictable.
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Stop, you’re a better poster than this. Don’t turn into kl.
 
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kyjeff1 said:
Wow, pot meet kettle.
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Except that national analysts and computers agree with me. And coaches. K said that the B12 was the best league in the nation two years ago. I actually think less of the league than many analysts.

But, I know...they’re all biased. Including the computers. And the selection committee hates the SEC and willfully keeps good teams out.

Only reason they don’t have a ton of tourney wins, right Mr Rational?RollLaugh
 
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kyjeff1 said:
The two bolded sentences… .hilarious.
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Are you equating the second part to me saying that regular season games are more important? You would.

Tony Bennett was widely considered one of the top coaches in the country before this season. Was that based on his sterling tourney record? Jay Wright had a solid reputation before winning his second or even the first title. Was it because he managed to make it to the 2nd round every year as a 1 or 2 seed? Must have been.
 
Its funny to see Tennessee basketball fans online. Only time I've met any has been at the SECT. Usually the 2nd worst fan base next to Arkansas.
 
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Rupp'sRunt said:
Its funny to see Tennessee basketball fans online. Only time I've met any has been at the SECT. Usually the 2nd worst fan base next to Arkansas.
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It's funny to see you online, you have only posted 162 times in eleven years. Work a little harder and you'll get your average up to 2 post per month. Good luck.
 
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MrBaracus said:
It's crazy? It's just a fact. What's crazy is you guys spouting off your 22-9 crap in every other post, as if a pile of wins over Ted Owens is relevant to today's matchups.

Even if those teams participated last year and the SEC won, it would still be only two wins in 6 years. Including two seasons in which they dropped 7 of 10 games. If the SEC has been the superior league, that probably doesn't happen. A good league doesn't go 1-30 vs ranked teams in non-con games, either. That's as pitiful as it gets.

You fail to acknowledge that the really shitty SEC teams have generally been left out of the challenge, too. Or the fact that Kentucky has had the advantage of more home games vs KU, etc.

Weak spin is weak spin.
Click to expand...

...It's actually 23-9. I especially enjoyed the one over Bill Self.... for the 2012 Title. The 72-40 game is a close second.
 
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JC for 3 said:
...It's actually 23-9. I especially enjoyed the one over Bill Self.... for the 2012 Title. The 72-40 game is a close second.
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I’ve enjoyed seeing Bill Self win 6 of 10, including two of three in Rupp. Good thing for you guys that your two best rosters of all time had three games vs two of Bill’s least talented teams.

I'm not old enough to remember Roy dropping 150 on you, but I’ll bet you do. Laughing
 
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MrBaracus said:
I’ve enjoyed seeing Bill Self win 6 of 10, including two of three in Rupp. Good thing for you guys that your two best rosters of all time had three games vs two of Bill’s least talented teams.

I'm not old enough to remember Roy dropping 150 on you, but I’ll bet you do. Laughing
Click to expand...

...and yet.....you're 9-23.
 
MrBaracus said:
I’ve enjoyed seeing Bill Self win 6 of 10, including two of three in Rupp. Good thing for you guys that your two best rosters of all time had three games vs two of Bill’s least talented teams.

I'm not old enough to remember Roy dropping 150 on you, but I’ll bet you do. Laughing
Click to expand...
Final_Four_Kentucky_Kansas_AP120402138016.jpg
 
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