All-ACC Awards

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by jhmossy, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Carey was deserving IMO. It isn't like I'm saying a Duke player wasn't deserving. If you say Tre is you are basically saying Duke had two players who were more deserving of ACC POTY than any other player in the conference. Like I said, I'm surprised Duke fans would agree with that.
     
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  2. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    When Trent Forrest and Tre Jones went heads up, Forrest went for 18 points (on 6-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 8 steals, 4 assists, and 1 block, all while forcing Tre into 5 turnovers.

    Tre had 13 points (on 5-14 shooting), 3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1 steal...oh and those 5 turnovers.

    So umm...yeah, I'm gonna say Tre Jones probably isn't the best POY, or even DPOY.
     
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  3. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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    Who said Carey wasn’t deserving? I said it was between Jones and Carey and towards the end of the year, Jones edged him out. Also, with Jones’ play on both sides of the ball, most knowledgeable basketball fans would agree that one player had more of an impact than the other.
     
  4. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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    Whew, glad Tre played in 19 more ACC games besides that one or else you’d have a great argument!
     
  5. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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  6. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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  7. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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  8. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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  9. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Oh you want 20 games? Over all 20 we've got:

    Steal % -- Trent 4.1% (led the entire league); Tre 2.4% (19th in the league)
    Block % -- Trent 2.1%; Tre 0.8%
    Def rebound rate -- Trent 13.7%; Tre 11.4%

    What exactly is DPOY measuring?
     
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  10. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Crickets on this one, @Quavarius ? Or is being a better shot blocker, defensive rebounder, and ball thief over the entire conference slate not enough data?
     
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  11. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    So one game determines the POY
     
  12. supergreennole

    supergreennole Well-Known Member
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    Did you read the follow up post?
     
  13. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Tre was outplayed a number of games. He outplayed guys a number of games as well. He was good. He just wasn't POTY good.

    I think Carey would be the one with more of an impact. Why do you suppose defenses didn't key on Jones as much? Why did he get such open looks at times? All defenses geared themselves to stop Carey and he was still dominant. So I think your version of knowledgeable is a bit shallow. Sometimes one player and their ability actually directly impacts what another player can do out there.

    Again, by your logic Duke has the best two players in the conference. I just disagree with that. I guess that explains why K didn't get any COTY votes though.

    I think a lot depends on who you play for. That's just the way it is. I think maybe Hamilton and FSU should tell the media all year how good their guy is as a defender since those who vote seem to lazy to actually pay attention.
     
  14. supergreennole

    supergreennole Well-Known Member
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    @Afamu
     
  15. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    So you are judging a PG on rebounds and blocked shots? Really?
     
  16. supergreennole

    supergreennole Well-Known Member
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    For DPOY? Absolutely.
     
  17. supergreennole

    supergreennole Well-Known Member
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    Any reason you think those aren’t relevant? What about the steal percentage?
     
  18. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    Seems the voters disagree. And you have a biased view. So we have that as well
     
  19. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    I was discussing POY
     
  20. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Nah, 20 should. Trent was better across all 20 AND in the heads up game that was played between the two, where the two guarded each other.
     
  21. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    Your opinion. Is Forest always the PG.
     
  22. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Umm...it's called DEFENSIVE player of the year. Why would we not look at blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds?
     
  23. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Well you quoted a post discussing defensive player of the year.

    Look, Tre Jones is great. Personally, I think Vernon Carey should have been POY, but both are very good. Regarding DPOY, there is really not an argument for Jones over Forrest. It's entirely a product of Jones playing for a team in North Carolina, where most of the voters are.

    It's really not going to hurt you to admit that sometimes other players are more deserving of an honor than a Duke player. I promise, it will be okay.
     
  24. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what that has to do with his 20 game defensive stats, but yes he is the primary PG for FSU. Serious question, do you watch ACC games besides ones where Duke or UNC is playing?
     
  25. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    I would if I could. I don’t recall Forest in the Duke game and I don’t watch FSU.
     
  26. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    Sure do. Just don’t pay attention to names and positions as closely with other teams. Especially FSU. Your teams are normally interchangeable. I know Walker on FSU for some reason. Forest never stood out to me.
     
  27. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    You don’t recall the guy who set a Cameron Indoor Stadium record with 8 steals? Lol. Gee you really watch closely!

    Your watching habits aside, the stats over 20 games prove that Forrest was unequivocally the better defender. You’d like to think the voters pay at least a little attention to games.
     
  28. Bert Higginbotha

    Bert Higginbotha Well-Known Member
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    That shows just how prejudiced the ACC is.
     
  29. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    Nope. Don’t recall.
    All I need to know about FSU is how Leonard looks like that at 70.
     
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  30. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    It's like discussing something with a child.
     
  31. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    It’s hard to believe that someone who watches ACC basketball on any level would literally have no recollection of a 4 year player who’s played the team who roots for probably 7 times? Played in an Elite 8 and Sweet 16.

    It’s like someone who roots for a Pac 12 team not knowing who Peyton Pritchard is, or a fan of a Big Ten team not knowing Cassius Winston.
     
  32. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    I actually know who Pritchard is, but not Forest. Sorry. When Duke plays a team once a year I don’t really know the players.

    I know Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville, State and UNc players a lot more. Even Gonzaga.

    FSU is just not a concern of mine.
     
  33. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    Well, then step up and stop acting like one.

    You are still a passive aggressive pussy with a condescending attitude.
    Teacher, right?
     
  34. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    You sure you aren't the Notre Dame/UNC fan guy?
     
  35. WojoRising

    WojoRising Well-Known Member
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    I’m not defending that reasoning, I’m just saying that in something that is clearly driven by aesthetics and statistics, that seems like an obvious reason for the unjust truth.

    Clearly you’ve thought about this much more than I have over the last ten years, so I’ll leave it at that.
     
  36. Afamu

    Afamu Well-Known Member
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    This.
     
  37. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Duke isn’t a concern of mine. Hell, BC isn’t a concern of mine. But I know who Nic Popivic is. Illinois isn’t a concern of mine but I know who Kofi Cockburn is. It’s just about knowing college basketball.

    I guess it makes sense though. In terms of giving context to all your other posts.

    FWIW, we will probably play for the 7th time in the last 4 years coming up next week. How many times have y’all played Gonzaga in the last 4 years?
     
  38. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Ehh. It’s not like we spend all year thinking about it. It’s just sort of a something fans of schools outside the Carolina/Virginia area sort of accept and acknowledge.

    FSU has had 4 first team All-ACC players since entering the league 28 years ago. Duke had two this year (both deserving). So...like I said it’s just sort of par for the course.

    But if it is driven by statistics like you said, why not Forrest over Jones for DPOY? Forrest averages more steals, blocks, and rebounds.
     
  39. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    This what? The poster you are quoting knows who players are outside of Duke and UNC. He also said it’s about stats...and you still haven’t attempted a response to the defense stats I posted comparing the two players.
     
  40. supergreennole

    supergreennole Well-Known Member
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    I wouldn’t mess with him on it GE, he clearly is trying to drive home the point that he considers FSU irrelevant
     

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