All-ACC Awards

[coryfly]

It was between Tre and Vernon since the after the first UNC game and many voters agreed Tre was more deserving. His stats back it up. With foul trouble hurting Vernon to be on the court later in the season, Tre surpassed him.

Carey was deserving IMO. It isn't like I'm saying a Duke player wasn't deserving. If you say Tre is you are basically saying Duke had two players who were more deserving of ACC POTY than any other player in the conference. Like I said, I'm surprised Duke fans would agree with that.

 

[GE Nole]

Carey was deserving IMO. It isn't like I'm saying a Duke player wasn't deserving. If you say Tre is you are basically saying Duke had two players who were more deserving of ACC POTY than any other player in the conference. Like I said, I'm surprised Duke fans would agree with that.

When Trent Forrest and Tre Jones went heads up, Forrest went for 18 points (on 6-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 8 steals, 4 assists, and 1 block, all while forcing Tre into 5 turnovers.

Tre had 13 points (on 5-14 shooting), 3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1 steal...oh and those 5 turnovers.

So umm...yeah, I'm gonna say Tre Jones probably isn't the best POY, or even DPOY.

 

[Quavarius]

Carey was deserving IMO. It isn't like I'm saying a Duke player wasn't deserving. If you say Tre is you are basically saying Duke had two players who were more deserving of ACC POTY than any other player in the conference. Like I said, I'm surprised Duke fans would agree with that.

Who said Carey wasn’t deserving? I said it was between Jones and Carey and towards the end of the year, Jones edged him out. Also, with Jones’ play on both sides of the ball, most knowledgeable basketball fans would agree that one player had more of an impact than the other.

 

[Quavarius]

When Trent Forrest and Tre Jones went heads up, Forrest went for 18 points (on 6-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 8 steals, 4 assists, and 1 block, all while forcing Tre into 5 turnovers.

Tre had 13 points (on 5-14 shooting), 3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1 steal...oh and those 5 turnovers.

So umm...yeah, I'm gonna say Tre Jones probably isn't the best POY, or even DPOY.

Whew, glad Tre played in 19 more ACC games besides that one or else you’d have a great argument!

 

[Quavarius]

 

[Quavarius]

 

[Quavarius]

 

[Quavarius]

 

[GE Nole]

Whew, glad Tre played in 19 more ACC games besides that one or else you’d have a great argument!

Oh you want 20 games? Over all 20 we've got:

Steal % -- Trent 4.1% (led the entire league); Tre 2.4% (19th in the league)
Block % -- Trent 2.1%; Tre 0.8%
Def rebound rate -- Trent 13.7%; Tre 11.4%

What exactly is DPOY measuring?

 

[GE Nole]

Oh you want 20 games? Over all 20 we've got:

Steal % -- Trent 4.1% (led the entire league); Tre 2.4% (19th in the league)
Block % -- Trent 2.1%; Tre 0.8%
Def rebound rate -- Trent 13.7%; Tre 11.4%

What exactly is DPOY measuring?

Crickets on this one, @Quavarius ? Or is being a better shot blocker, defensive rebounder, and ball thief over the entire conference slate not enough data?

 

[Afamu]

When Trent Forrest and Tre Jones went heads up, Forrest went for 18 points (on 6-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 8 steals, 4 assists, and 1 block, all while forcing Tre into 5 turnovers.

Tre had 13 points (on 5-14 shooting), 3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1 steal...oh and those 5 turnovers.

So umm...yeah, I'm gonna say Tre Jones probably isn't the best POY, or even DPOY.

So one game determines the POY

 

[supergreennole]

So one game determines the POY

Did you read the follow up post?

 

[coryfly]

When Trent Forrest and Tre Jones went heads up, Forrest went for 18 points (on 6-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 8 steals, 4 assists, and 1 block, all while forcing Tre into 5 turnovers.

Tre had 13 points (on 5-14 shooting), 3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1 steal...oh and those 5 turnovers.

So umm...yeah, I'm gonna say Tre Jones probably isn't the best POY, or even DPOY.

Tre was outplayed a number of games. He outplayed guys a number of games as well. He was good. He just wasn't POTY good.

Who said Carey wasn’t deserving? I said it was between Jones and Carey and towards the end of the year, Jones edged him out. Also, with Jones’ play on both sides of the ball, most knowledgeable basketball fans would agree that one player had more of an impact than the other.

I think Carey would be the one with more of an impact. Why do you suppose defenses didn't key on Jones as much? Why did he get such open looks at times? All defenses geared themselves to stop Carey and he was still dominant. So I think your version of knowledgeable is a bit shallow. Sometimes one player and their ability actually directly impacts what another player can do out there.

Again, by your logic Duke has the best two players in the conference. I just disagree with that. I guess that explains why K didn't get any COTY votes though.

Crickets on this one, @Quavarius ? Or is being a better shot blocker, defensive rebounder, and ball thief over the entire conference slate not enough data?

I think a lot depends on who you play for. That's just the way it is. I think maybe Hamilton and FSU should tell the media all year how good their guy is as a defender since those who vote seem to lazy to actually pay attention.

 

[supergreennole]

Oh you want 20 games? Over all 20 we've got:

Steal % -- Trent 4.1% (led the entire league); Tre 2.4% (19th in the league)
Block % -- Trent 2.1%; Tre 0.8%
Def rebound rate -- Trent 13.7%; Tre 11.4%

What exactly is DPOY measuring?

@Afamu

 

[Afamu]

@Afamu

So you are judging a PG on rebounds and blocked shots? Really?

 

[supergreennole]

So you are judging a PG on rebounds and blocked shots? Really?

For DPOY? Absolutely.

 

[supergreennole]

Any reason you think those aren’t relevant? What about the steal percentage?

 

[Afamu]

Tre was outplayed a number of games. He outplayed guys a number of games as well. He was good. He just wasn't POTY good.



I think Carey would be the one with more of an impact. Why do you suppose defenses didn't key on Jones as much? Why did he get such open looks at times? All defenses geared themselves to stop Carey and he was still dominant. So I think your version of knowledgeable is a bit shallow. Sometimes one player and their ability actually directly impacts what another player can do out there.

Again, by your logic Duke has the best two players in the conference. I just disagree with that. I guess that explains why K didn't get any COTY votes though.



I think a lot depends on who you play for. That's just the way it is. I think maybe Hamilton and FSU should tell the media all year how good their guy is as a defender since those who vote seem to lazy to actually pay attention.

Seems the voters disagree. And you have a biased view. So we have that as well

 

[Afamu]

For DPOY? Absolutely.

I was discussing POY

 

[GE Nole]

So one game determines the POY

Nah, 20 should. Trent was better across all 20 AND in the heads up game that was played between the two, where the two guarded each other.

 

[Afamu]

Nah, 20 should. Trent was better across all 20 AND in the heads up game that was played between the two, where the two guarded each other.

Your opinion. Is Forest always the PG.

 

[GE Nole]

So you are judging a PG on rebounds and blocked shots? Really?

Umm...it's called DEFENSIVE player of the year. Why would we not look at blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds?

 

[GE Nole]

I was discussing POY

Well you quoted a post discussing defensive player of the year.

Look, Tre Jones is great. Personally, I think Vernon Carey should have been POY, but both are very good. Regarding DPOY, there is really not an argument for Jones over Forrest. It's entirely a product of Jones playing for a team in North Carolina, where most of the voters are.

It's really not going to hurt you to admit that sometimes other players are more deserving of an honor than a Duke player. I promise, it will be okay.

 

[GE Nole]

Your opinion. Is Forest always the PG.

I'm not sure what that has to do with his 20 game defensive stats, but yes he is the primary PG for FSU. Serious question, do you watch ACC games besides ones where Duke or UNC is playing?

 

[Afamu]

Well you quoted a post discussing defensive player of the year.

Look, Tre Jones is great. Personally, I think Vernon Carey should have been POY, but both are very good. Regarding DPOY, there is really not an argument for Jones over Forrest. It's entirely a product of Jones playing for a team in North Carolina, where most of the voters are.

It's really not going to hurt you to admit that sometimes other players are more deserving of an honor than a Duke player. I promise, it will be okay.

I would if I could. I don’t recall Forest in the Duke game and I don’t watch FSU.

 

[Afamu]

I'm not sure what that has to do with his 20 game defensive stats, but yes he is the primary PG for FSU. Serious question, do you watch ACC games besides ones where Duke or UNC is playing?

Sure do. Just don’t pay attention to names and positions as closely with other teams. Especially FSU. Your teams are normally interchangeable. I know Walker on FSU for some reason. Forest never stood out to me.

 

[GE Nole]

I would if I could. I don’t recall Forest in the Duke game and I don’t watch FSU.

You don’t recall the guy who set a Cameron Indoor Stadium record with 8 steals? Lol. Gee you really watch closely!

Your watching habits aside, the stats over 20 games prove that Forrest was unequivocally the better defender. You’d like to think the voters pay at least a little attention to games.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

View embedded media

That shows just how prejudiced the ACC is.

 

[Afamu]

You don’t recall the guy who set a Cameron Indoor Stadium record with 8 steals? Lol. Gee you really watch closely!

Your watching habits aside, the stats over 20 games prove that Forrest was unequivocally the better defender. You’d like to think the voters pay at least a little attention to games.

Nope. Don’t recall.
All I need to know about FSU is how Leonard looks like that at 70.

 

[coryfly]

It's like discussing something with a child.

 

[GE Nole]

It's like discussing something with a child.

It’s hard to believe that someone who watches ACC basketball on any level would literally have no recollection of a 4 year player who’s played the team who roots for probably 7 times? Played in an Elite 8 and Sweet 16.

It’s like someone who roots for a Pac 12 team not knowing who Peyton Pritchard is, or a fan of a Big Ten team not knowing Cassius Winston.

 

[Afamu]

It’s hard to believe that someone who watches ACC basketball on any level would literally have no recollection of a 4 year player who’s played the team who roots for probably 7 times? Played in an Elite 8 and Sweet 16.

It’s like someone who roots for a Pac 12 team not knowing who Peyton Pritchard is, or a fan of a Big Ten team not knowing Cassius Winston.

I actually know who Pritchard is, but not Forest. Sorry. When Duke plays a team once a year I don’t really know the players.

I know Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville, State and UNc players a lot more. Even Gonzaga.

FSU is just not a concern of mine.

 

[Afamu]

It's like discussing something with a child.

Well, then step up and stop acting like one.

You are still a passive aggressive pussy with a condescending attitude.
Teacher, right?

 

[coryfly]

You sure you aren't the Notre Dame/UNC fan guy?

 

[WojoRising]

That plays a factor, sure. But come on. Not a single guy was worthy of 1st team in more than a decade? Not Michael Snaer? Chris Singleton (who won defensive player of the year, by the way)? Not Dwayne Bacon? Terance Mann? Devin Vassell?

But let's say there wasn't a guy worthy. Shouldn't Ham be winning Coach of the Year awards like Titanic raking in Oscar Awards? I mean, if the guy can accomplish all that with a system that is so unique and successful that not a single player is worthy of 1st team, then he must be the best coach most years, right?

Well, until today Hamilton hadn't won CoY since 2012. That includes 2017 where FSU was picked to finish 8th in the preseason ACC poll and ended up 2nd and ranked in the top 15 in the country. Oh and he did all that with only 1 guy on any of the 1st-3rd All ACC teams that season. Apparently Josh Pastner did a better job that season, guiding GT to the NIT and rising from 14th in the ACC preseason all the way up to 11th.

So which is it? Is Ham's system just so incredible that none of the players should be given accolades, but Ham should win coach of the year 75% of the time? Or is it that FSU's players, largely due to a voting contingent that is based in the Carolinas and Virginias, are repeatedly overlooked?

I’m not defending that reasoning, I’m just saying that in something that is clearly driven by aesthetics and statistics, that seems like an obvious reason for the unjust truth.

Clearly you’ve thought about this much more than I have over the last ten years, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Afamu]

I’m not defending that reasoning, I’m just saying that in something that is clearly driven by aesthetics and statistics, that seems like an obvious reason for the unjust truth.

Clearly you’ve thought about this much more than I have over the last ten years, so I’ll leave it at that.

This.

 

[GE Nole]

I actually know who Pritchard is, but not Forest. Sorry. When Duke plays a team once a year I don’t really know the players.

I know Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville, State and UNc players a lot more. Even Gonzaga.

FSU is just not a concern of mine.

Duke isn’t a concern of mine. Hell, BC isn’t a concern of mine. But I know who Nic Popivic is. Illinois isn’t a concern of mine but I know who Kofi Cockburn is. It’s just about knowing college basketball.

I guess it makes sense though. In terms of giving context to all your other posts.

FWIW, we will probably play for the 7th time in the last 4 years coming up next week. How many times have y’all played Gonzaga in the last 4 years?

 

[GE Nole]

I’m not defending that reasoning, I’m just saying that in something that is clearly driven by aesthetics and statistics, that seems like an obvious reason for the unjust truth.

Clearly you’ve thought about this much more than I have over the last ten years, so I’ll leave it at that.

Ehh. It’s not like we spend all year thinking about it. It’s just sort of a something fans of schools outside the Carolina/Virginia area sort of accept and acknowledge.

FSU has had 4 first team All-ACC players since entering the league 28 years ago. Duke had two this year (both deserving). So...like I said it’s just sort of par for the course.

But if it is driven by statistics like you said, why not Forrest over Jones for DPOY? Forrest averages more steals, blocks, and rebounds.

 

[GE Nole]

This.

This what? The poster you are quoting knows who players are outside of Duke and UNC. He also said it’s about stats...and you still haven’t attempted a response to the defense stats I posted comparing the two players.

 

[supergreennole]

I wouldn’t mess with him on it GE, he clearly is trying to drive home the point that he considers FSU irrelevant