ACC Thread

[TKBray]

Jim Larranaga is getting ripped to shreds (by some) on our home board. Yes, this season was an absolute disaster and I'm not saying he shouldn't be receiving some heat but some fans are talking that he should be fired. After one bad season 🤦🏿‍♂️

It's like they've forgotten everything he has done at Miami, particularly the last two years. He has a final four, elite 8, two sweet 16s, a regular season ACC championship, a ACC tournament championship, and had a couple more teams that would've been dangerous in the tournament if not for injuries.

His real failure was before this season even started. Not bringing in a legit center doomed this team. Omier plays his ass off but he's legitimately about 6'5" with a 6'11" wingspan. Not being able to capitalize on the portal coming off a final four run was disappointing.

 

[kyjeff1]

Jim Larranaga is getting ripped to shreds (by some) on our home board. Yes, this season was an absolute disaster and I'm not saying he shouldn't be receiving some heat but some fans are talking that he should be fired. After one bad season 🤦🏿‍♂️

It's like they've forgotten everything he has done at Miami, particularly the last two years. He has a final four, elite 8, two sweet 16s, a regular season ACC championship, a ACC tournament championship, and had a couple more teams that would've been dangerous in the tournament if not for injuries.

His real failure was before this season even started. Not bringing in a legit center doomed this team. Omier plays his ass off but he's legitimately about 6'5" with a 6'11" wingspan. Not being able to capitalize on the portal coming off a final four run was disappointing.

And the reason why, is because they tasted success.
Once a fanbase experiences winning at the highest level, there are expectations that weren't there before.
This is a bit rough though, dude was in the FF just last year.

 

[GE Nole]

Jim Larranaga is getting ripped to shreds (by some) on our home board. Yes, this season was an absolute disaster and I'm not saying he shouldn't be receiving some heat but some fans are talking that he should be fired. After one bad season 🤦🏿‍♂️

It's like they've forgotten everything he has done at Miami, particularly the last two years. He has a final four, elite 8, two sweet 16s, a regular season ACC championship, a ACC tournament championship, and had a couple more teams that would've been dangerous in the tournament if not for injuries.

His real failure was before this season even started. Not bringing in a legit center doomed this team. Omier plays his ass off but he's legitimately about 6'5" with a 6'11" wingspan. Not being able to capitalize on the portal coming off a final four run was disappointing.

It’s a tough situation, IMO. Final Four last season, but isn’t it also 4 losing seasons out of the last 6?

Obviously Larranaga has achieved some outstanding accomplishments in Miami. Just like Ham has in Tallahassee. But it does seem like both guys have lost their edge a bit. Idk.

Next year is likely Ham’s last season. And I could see the same being true for Larranaga.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

It’s a tough situation, IMO. Final Four last season, but isn’t it also 4 losing seasons out of the last 6?

Obviously Larranaga has achieved some outstanding accomplishments in Miami. Just like Ham has in Tallahassee. But it does seem like both guys have lost their edge a bit. Idk.

Next year is likely Ham’s last season. And I could see the same being true for Larranaga.

Who would you like to see replace Hamilton?

Gonna be weird not having him around. Long career.

 

[GE Nole]

Who would you like to see replace Hamilton?

Gonna be weird not having him around. Long career.

Luke Loucks, Sam Cassell, Dusty May (long shot), Rahim down at USF. Maybe Kellen Sampson (also long shot).

 

[TKBray]

And the reason why, is because they tasted success.
Once a fanbase experiences winning at the highest level, there are expectations that weren't there before.
This is a bit rough though, dude was in the FF just last year.

Oh absolutely, rough is an understatement. It was so bad that I stopped watching weeks ago. Because it was more than just losing, it was HOW they were losing. Yes, injuries were a big factor this season. Literally all 5 starters missed several games at different points this season. But they played with no heart at all the entire season. No heart, no passion, careless, and sloppy. Truly unwatchable

It's even more crazy bc the teams of the previous two seasons were the complete opposite. They went on those deep tournament runs because they were fighters, scrappy.

So yeah, I'm not saying Larranaga is blame-free, if things don't get much better next season then I would expect a move. Just not gonna roast him right now like many are.

 

[TKBray]

It’s a tough situation, IMO. Final Four last season, but isn’t it also 4 losing seasons out of the last 6?

Obviously Larranaga has achieved some outstanding accomplishments in Miami. Just like Ham has in Tallahassee. But it does seem like both guys have lost their edge a bit. Idk.

Next year is likely Ham’s last season. And I could see the same being true for Larranaga.

Don't really disagree with any of that.

But I'm not ready to say he has lost his edge... yet. He just led his team to a final four 300 some days ago and an elite eight 300 some days before that. I know he's old as hell lol but he was looking as spry and fresh as he ever had at the end of last season. He is bringing in the best individual recruit and highest ranked class he has landed in his time at Miami so I think that means he's still relating to recruits well, even at his age.

Idk, maybe father time caught up to him sometime between April and November 2023 but I'm not ready to go that far yet.

But I absolutely feel that if the team doesn't rebound in a big way next season then I would expect a move.

 

[kyjeff1]

Oh absolutely, rough is an understatement. It was so bad that I stopped watching weeks ago. Because it was more than just losing, it was HOW they were losing. Yes, injuries were a big factor this season. Literally all 5 starters missed several games at different points this season. But they played with no heart at all the entire season. No heart, no passion, careless, and sloppy. Truly unwatchable

It's even more crazy bc the teams of the previous two seasons were the complete opposite. They went on those deep tournament runs because they were fighters, scrappy.

So yeah, I'm not saying Larranaga is blame-free, if things don't get much better next season then I would expect a move. Just not gonna roast him right now like many are.

I watched most of Miami's games and just came away scratching my head at some of the poor decision making.
They would have a 10 point lead with 2 minutes left and veteran players would come down the court, never pass the ball and just jack up long guarded 2's with 20 seconds on the clock. They would do it repeadedly and it cost them several wins.
I was hoping they would figure it out, but they never did. They still play like they don't care and that is so odd considering what they did just last year.

 

[dukedevilz]

Was just looking at the NBA Stats and I noticed that Grayson Allen and Luke Kennard were #1 and #2 in the NBA in 3-point percentage at 47.4% and 45.3%, respectively. And that 2017 team also had Jayson Tatum. And we lost in the 2nd freaking round. Holy crap.

 

[TKBray]

I watched most of Miami's games and just came away scratching my head at some of the poor decision making.
They would have a 10 point lead with 2 minutes left and veteran players would come down the court, never pass the ball and just jack up long guarded 2's with 20 seconds on the clock. They would do it repeadedly and it cost them several wins.
I was hoping they would figure it out, but they never did. They still play like they don't care and that is so odd considering what they did just last year.

Exactly

The lack of caring this season was just so apparent. I could see if they lost everyone from the final four team but they brought back 4 of the top 6 players in the rotation and a couple freshmen that saw some time. Losing Wong and Miller were really big losses but still.

Them settling for long 2's and 3's on offense is one of the biggest reasons I couldn't stand to watch them anymore. The amount of times they just settled for deep threes drove me crazy. The guards hardly ever looked to drive, very little ball movement, not moving the ball side to side to get the defense moving, etc.

 

[dukedevilz]

So what’s the consensus on Pitt in here? Do we belong in the tournament?

I'd like to see you all in the tournament. Definitely capable of beating elite teams.

Unfortunately, the metrics don't like the ACC. You guys are squarely on the bubble. The good new is, Wake is also squarely on the bubble. So if you beat them, you're probably knocking them out of the tournament and significantly improving your odds.

 

[FaithPlusOne]

Clemson doing their best Clemsoning right now. We’ll see if they can claw back.

 

[FaithPlusOne]

I'd like to see you all in the tournament. Definitely capable of beating elite teams.

Unfortunately, the metrics don't like the ACC. You guys are squarely on the bubble. The good new is, Wake is also squarely on the bubble. So if you beat them, you're probably knocking them out of the tournament and significantly improving your odds.

Yeah, Wake v Pitt almost feels like a play-in game, but I almost feel like either would then have to beat UNC to get in. If UNC loses to FSU then their chances are dicier. Beating FSU doesn’t do much for either but losing to them would be detrimental.

 

[ABVolsFan92]

Brad Brownell should be fired if he loses round 1 of the NCAA right?

 

[dukedevilz]

Brad Brownell should be fired if he loses round 1 of the NCAA right?

It's Clemson. Who are you going to get that's better? Clemson has 11 wins all-time in the NCAA Tournament, and 3 of those wins have come under Brownell. In the past 4 seasons, PJ Hall has been the only top 100 player on that roster. If you get multiple top 100 recruits with Brownell, they'll consistently be a top 25 team.

Boston College thought they could have done better than Al Skinner. He was fired 14 years ago and they've yet to make the tournament since then. I could see a similar path if they part ways with Brownell. Got to invest $ in the program if you expect results.

 

[GE Nole]

It's Clemson. Who are you going to get that's better? Clemson has 11 wins all-time in the NCAA Tournament, and 3 of those wins have come under Brownell. In the past 4 seasons, PJ Hall has been the only top 100 player on that roster. If you get multiple top 100 recruits with Brownell, they'll consistently be a top 25 team.

Boston College thought they could have done better than Al Skinner. He was fired 14 years ago and they've yet to make the tournament since then. I could see a similar path if they part ways with Brownell. Got to invest $ in the program if you expect results.

Bingo.

 

[GE Nole]

Yeah, Wake v Pitt almost feels like a play-in game, but I almost feel like either would then have to beat UNC to get in. If UNC loses to FSU then their chances are dicier. Beating FSU doesn’t do much for either but losing to them would be detrimental.

Beating FSU would be a Quad 2 win, so it’s not a huge deal but it’s also not nothing.

What’s funny is that FSU has 10 quad 1 or 2 wins. That’s the same amount or more as Auburn, Kentucky, St. Mary’s, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Dayton, Boise State, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Nevada, Utah State, FAU, UF, Cinci, Nebraska, TCU, Villanova, and many more teams in NCAAT contention.

FSU’s problem is they only played 5 Q4 games all season long, meaning very few chances to pad their win/loss record and beat teams by 25 and increase their metrics. Most of the schools listed above played 9+.

 

[GE Nole]

Don't really disagree with any of that.

But I'm not ready to say he has lost his edge... yet. He just led his team to a final four 300 some days ago and an elite eight 300 some days before that. I know he's old as hell lol but he was looking as spry and fresh as he ever had at the end of last season. He is bringing in the best individual recruit and highest ranked class he has landed in his time at Miami so I think that means he's still relating to recruits well, even at his age.

Idk, maybe father time caught up to him sometime between April and November 2023 but I'm not ready to go that far yet.

But I absolutely feel that if the team doesn't rebound in a big way next season then I would expect a move.

My dad passed last year at 80 and my mom is 77 now. It’s crazy to say this, but every year older starting at about 73 seems like another 5 years in terms of their mental edge and energy. Massive difference between 71/72 and 77/78.

But yes, I do believe he’s done enough to earn another season. The recruiting class alone should buy him that.

One thing yall should do is dump Matthew Cleveland. Dude is a team killer. We got noticeably worse when he became starter and noticeably better when he left.

 

[kyjeff1]

Beating FSU would be a Quad 2 win, so it’s not a huge deal but it’s also not nothing.

What’s funny is that FSU has 10 quad 1 or 2 wins. That’s the same amount or more as Auburn, Kentucky, St. Mary’s, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Dayton, Boise State, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Nevada, Utah State, FAU, UF, Cinci, Nebraska, TCU, Villanova, and many more teams in NCAAT contention.

FSU’s problem is they only played 5 Q4 games all season long, meaning very few chances to pad their win/loss record and beat teams by 25 and increase their metrics. Most of the schools listed above played 9+.

I really hope they redo the quads, because there is a huge difference between beating a highly ranked team on their home court and beating a team like Virginia Tech, or NCST.

Not only that, but there are a lot of programs that have figured out how to game the system. Heck, the entire BIG12 has been doing it.

If a team beats a top 20 KP team on their home court, or even at home, it should weigh more than beating a mid team on their home court, but right now, they're equal. That’s not right.

 

[GE Nole]

I really hope they redo the quads, because there is a huge difference between beating a highly ranked team on their home court and beating a team like Virginia Tech, or NCST.

Not only that, but there are a lot of programs that have figured out how to game the system. Heck, the entire BIG12 has been doing it.

If a team beats a top 20 KP team on their home court, or even at home, it should weigh more than beating a mid team on their home court, but right now, they're equal. That’s not right.

No doubt.

There is something called Quad 1a wins, which is sort of what you’re talking about. Beating the very very best. Its not an official metric though.

 

[dukedevilz]

No doubt.

There is something called Quad 1a wins, which is sort of what you’re talking about. Beating the very very best. Its not an official metric though.

Here's how I understand the distinction between Q1 and Q1a wins.

Quad 1 wins:
Home- top 30
Neutral- top 50
Road- top 75

Quad 1a wins:
Home- top 15
Neutral- top 25
Road- top 40

 

[kyjeff1]

Here's how I understand the distinction between Q1 and Q1a wins.

Quad 1 wins:
Home- top 30
Neutral- top 50
Road- top 75

Quad 1a wins:
Home- top 15
Neutral- top 25
Road- top 40

When did they start quad 1a wins? I'm not hearing anyone talk about that.

 

[dukedevilz]

When did they start quad 1a wins? I'm not hearing anyone talk about that.

I've never heard it being used as a metric by the tournament committee. But, it makes sense that you'd want to drill-down on the better quality Quad 1 games.

I do know that Bart Torvik uses the Quad 1a metric, however.

 

[kyjeff1]

I've never heard it being used as a metric by the tournament committee. But, it makes sense that you'd want to drill-down on the better quality Quad 1 games.

I do know that Bart Torvik uses the Quad 1a metric, however.

I think that's definitely a metric that should be used during the selection process. Wow.

 

[ABVolsFan92]

It's Clemson. Who are you going to get that's better? Clemson has 11 wins all-time in the NCAA Tournament, and 3 of those wins have come under Brownell. In the past 4 seasons, PJ Hall has been the only top 100 player on that roster. If you get multiple top 100 recruits with Brownell, they'll consistently be a top 25 team.

Boston College thought they could have done better than Al Skinner. He was fired 14 years ago and they've yet to make the tournament since then. I could see a similar path if they part ways with Brownell. Got to invest $ in the program if you expect results.

Neff made a good hire with Bakich in baseball and turned them from mediocre to a top 10 team. I think if he opens up the bank for a good coach Clemson can be a top 25 program

 

[dukedevilz]

Neff made a good hire with Bakich in baseball and turned them from mediocre to a top 10 team. I think if he opens up the bank for a good coach Clemson can be a top 25 program

Clemson is historically great in baseball, though. 12 trips to Omaha. Compare that to 11 NCAA Tournament wins in basketball.

I'm not a baseball fanatic, but I'd guess the Clemson job is a top 25 position. In basketball, definitely not top 25. Maybe borderline top 50?

 

[dukedevilz]

My brother sent me this last night. $21 in fees for a single ticket. Outrageous.

Is that normal? With small kids, I haven't been going to a lot of games lately.

 

[dukedevilz]

If UNC wins the ACC Tournament, they'd have a strong argument for the last 1 seed. They'd have to play out West. But, that's probably better than getting UConn or Houston in the same region.

 

[FaithPlusOne]

If UNC wins the ACC Tournament, they'd have a strong argument for the last 1 seed. They'd have to play out West. But, that's probably better than getting UConn or Houston in the same region.

That’s the main reason I want them to get that 1 seed. It’s better to avoid the other 3 as long as possible.

 

[jackrabbit slim]

Was just looking at the NBA Stats and I noticed that Grayson Allen and Luke Kennard were #1 and #2 in the NBA in 3-point percentage at 47.4% and 45.3%, respectively. And that 2017 team also had Jayson Tatum. And we lost in the 2nd freaking round. Holy crap.

Yeah you did.

 

[dukedevilz]

Yeah you did.

That 2nd round matchup was so wild. Maybe my memory is off, but that environment honestly seemed more hostile than any road game we had that year. For our benefit, we should never go to to the same site as UNC. Those fans will always outnumber us. And then USC obviously isn't too far away from Greenville. USC was just unstoppable in the 2nd half.

Brooklyn is honestly the most pro-Duke crowd we can draw - and I'm thinking/hoping that's where we'll go this year.

 

[kyjeff1]

That 2nd round matchup was so wild. Maybe my memory is off, but that environment honestly seemed more hostile than any road game we had that year. For our benefit, we should never go to to the same site as UNC. Those fans will always outnumber us. And then USC obviously isn't too far away from Greenville. USC was just unstoppable in the 2nd half.

Brooklyn is honestly the most pro-Duke crowd we can draw - and I'm thinking/hoping that's where we'll go this year.

The refs let them play that night. South Carolina was able to play incredibly physical throughout the tournament, where in the SEC, they were stymied by the whistle.

That usc team had a lot of really good veteran talent.

 

[dukedevilz]

The refs let them play that night. South Carolina was able to play incredibly physical throughout the tournament, where in the SEC, they were stymied by the whistle.

That usc team had a lot of really good veteran talent.

That was a great USC team. Several of those guys played in the NBA. And I'm Pretty sure Sindarius Thornwell earned All-American honors that year.

 

[jackrabbit slim]

The refs let them play that night. South Carolina was able to play incredibly physical throughout the tournament, where in the SEC, they were stymied by the whistle.

That usc team had a lot of really good veteran talent.

Thornwell, Dozier, Gravett, Kotsar and Silva. Great squad that year.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Survive and advance, baby!

 

[dukedevilz]

Survive and advance, baby!

View embedded media

Beat UNC, please.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Beat UNC, please.

 

[829305]

I should have my head checked for betting on Duke. Thought they’d have something to prove. Proving they’re the bitches we already knew they were I suppose.

 

[Afamu]

Game over. The ball hog Flip thinks he has to do it all.

 

[kyjeff1]

Game over. The ball hog Flip thinks he has to do it all.

Meh, duke will come back and win. NCST isn’t good enough to keep this up, eventually McCain and Roach will get it going.