2021 NBA playoffs discussion thread
- Thread starter WeAreDePaul
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Best sports program in the country.
Man, I couldn't have been more wrong about this Nets Bucks series. I'm not sure though if I've over rated the Bucks or under rated the Nets. It's scary what the Nets are doing without Harden being available
yea but Milwaukee is playing without the Michael Jordan of Delaware. 🤣
Don't get me started hating on Nova. I'm a Saint Joseph's University grad. We consider Nova to be a rival. Unfortunately, the Hawk isn't good enough for the Wildcats to reciprocate with their feelings, haha.
I called Nets vs Clippers in the finals. Always just seemed like the Nets could turn it on whenever they wanted. And that's exactly the case. The Bucks can't do anything with them, especially on the offensive side.
The most dominant two way player in the league this year was my guy, Joel Embiid. People grade him doen because of missed games but if you're coming with KD, that applies to him as well.
yea, but aren't a lot of KD's missed games because of COVID protocols?
Tbh you are right. Im letting my age show. I was obv much younger in pierces prime but he was an amazing player as well.
I still dont think its the same for an org to trade for stars and form a super team, and superstar players just deciding to all sign with the same team, but we can agree to disagree.
I'll reciprocate for you. I f-ing hate St. Josephs! 1981 still feels like yesterday to me.
Go flap your arms for 2 straight hours you bastard!
I don't agree with that. Consistently missing games for injuries is different than missing games because the guy that cut your hair has the sniffles.
KD missed a ton of games being rested and or dealing with the thigh or hamstring issue he had. Regardless, it has little to do with my statement. There was no player in the NBA that was as dominant at both ends of the floor as Joel Embiid this season.
Absolutely not. Wade is one of the best shooting guards ever. Even without being an average shooter from deep he was elite inside the arc and a phenomenal defender. Was the best player on the Heat's first title team. Pierce is a legit HoF guy, but there's a big gap between the two.
What does that have to do with anything? The Celtics formed a super team, just like the Heat did. So did the Lakers around that time. Does nobody remember the SI cover?
Your basis that the Heat were "better" (which is true) doesn't matter. Both Big 3's were formed with 3 hall of famers. Boston traded for theirs, while the Heat had to make a bunch of trades as well (including the two sign & trades) to make them work under the salary cap. You wanna argue it killed parity? Fine. But you know what really killed parity? Kevin fvcking Durant signing with a team that had won 73 games the year prior.
Absolutely not. Wade is one of the best shooting guards ever. Even without being an average shooter from deep he was elite inside the arc and a phenomenal defender. Was the best player on the Heat's first title team. Pierce is a legit HoF guy, but there's a big gap between the two.
What does that have to do with anything? The Celtics formed a super team, just like the Heat did. So did the Lakers around that time. Does nobody remember the SI cover?
Your basis that the Heat were "better" (which is true) doesn't matter. Both Big 3's were formed with 3 hall of famers. Boston traded for theirs, while the Heat had to make a bunch of trades as well (including the two sign & trades) to make them work under the salary cap. You wanna argue it killed parity? Fine. But you know what really killed parity? Kevin fvcking Durant signing with a team that had won 73 games the year prior.
very true.
But Lebron/wade/bosh had already set the precedent that you werent gonna beat them unless you had a super team. But still super weak move by durant snd tour absolutely right.
And i still cant believe most of yall think its equal for bostons front office to trade for garnett and allen, and lebron and bosh deciding to go join wade in miami via free agency.
Bc of the salary cap??? When they took pay cuts? Bc they had to cut some scrubs to make room. Bostons front office built their team, the way teams have been built forever. Lebron built the miami team. Sign and trades??? Gtfo thats not the same as having to give up real assets in a real trade imo. And im not a boston fan at all, i just reapect the way they built their big 3, not just sign the dotted line and we will figure out the salary cap.
It's hard for me to accept Embiid as a dominant or even good defensive player when all I've ever seen him do over the past couple years is run away and hide under the basket whenever Trae gets him in the PnR.
Yikes. Just say that you don't watch the dude. You're basing an opinion on 3 games per season. Additioanlly, the only regular season game the Hawks won vs the Sixers this year was the game Embiid missed. Embiid isn't responsible for a poor plan of attack vs pick and roll.
I’ve overrated Freak. I can see that now. His lack of perimeter shot, lack of FT consistency, and not being the super elite playmaker of someone like Jokic makes him fairly easy to game plan around.
Now, not every team has the horses to execute the game plan, but it’s not a complicated plan. If the Bucks don’t come back and at least make this a competitive series, it will be impossible for me to have Freak in my top 4.
I think you’re underestimating some of the behinds the scenes stuff when it comes to the players requesting trades or requesting them to certain teams. Those guys definitely talked back then, it just wasn’t on Twitter.
But yes, agreeing to disagree is always a good route. I definitely respect your position and you as a poster.
obviously I'm only basing it on the games vs the Hawks when i say that. In those games he has offered no resistance to Trae in the lane.
I don't put any stock in the W/L record of those games considering the extensive injury list for the Hawks in all those games. Plus any game that Lloyd Pierce coached should be thrown out the window. It's dangerous to look at this Hawks team and look to the regular season for reference. Knicks fans kept saying before the series that the Knicks were going to coast because they were 3-0 vs ATL during the season. That line of logic didn't work out so well for them
First game vs PHI as you said there was no Embiid OR Simmons. ATL was missing Bogi, Gallo, Rondo.
Second game vs PHI you were full strength and we were missing some guy named Trae Young as well as Hunter.
Third game you were full and we had Trae back for first time after ankle sprain, but no Bogi or Hunter.
So throw all those games out the window, they mean nothing.
Full strength Philly vs Hawks still not 100% (Hunter) and we hold a 1-0 edge
Like I said, if you're saying that then the precedent wasn't Miami's super team, it was Boston's. Because they were the modern originator of it. LA tried it to disastrous effect and then Miami perfected it before Golden State took advantage of a once in a lifetime cap rise to destroy the league with Durant.
I'm not arguing that Miami had an easier job building theirs thanks to LeBron and Bosh joining them. But Boston showed the blueprint to the league.
Exactly. These dudes talk. Garnett iirc had a no trade that he explicitly waived so he could go to Boston.
My comment wasn't really about handicapping this current series. I am definitely one of those voices that harp on the reality that regular season NBA and playoff NBA are night and day different. My comment was about Embiid being the best two way player in the NBA this year. Additionally, when was the last time you could say that about a Big Man in the NBA? I guess Shaq? Although, I don't know that I would have ever called Shaq an elite defender. Definitely a plus defender but not quite elite. Shaq only made All NBA defensive team 3 times in 19 years.obviously I'm only basing it on the games vs the Hawks when i say that. In those games he has offered no resistance to Trae in the lane.
I don't put any stock in the W/L record of those games considering the extensive injury list for the Hawks in all those games. Plus any game that Lloyd Pierce coached should be thrown out the window. It's dangerous to look at this Hawks team and look to the regular season for reference. Knicks fans kept saying before the series that the Knicks were going to coast because they were 3-0 vs ATL during the season. That line of logic didn't work out so well for them
First game vs PHI as you said there was no Embiid OR Simmons. ATL was missing Bogi, Gallo, Rondo.
Second game vs PHI you were full strength and we were missing some guy named Trae Young as well as Hunter.
Third game you were full and we had Trae back for first time after ankle sprain, but no Bogi or Hunter.
So throw all those games out the window, they mean nothing.
Full strength Philly vs Hawks still not 100% (Hunter) and we hold a 1-0 edge
Like I said, if you're saying that then the precedent wasn't Miami's super team, it was Boston's. Because they were the modern originator of it. LA tried it to disastrous effect and then Miami perfected it before Golden State took advantage of a once in a lifetime cap rise to destroy the league with Durant.
I'm not arguing Miami had a harder job forming their super team than Boston, but they did give up a decent amount of draft capital in those sign and trades. It's not just sign the dotted line and done. My whole point was from the beginning that LeBron wasn't the originator of it like someone else said.
Exactly. These dudes talk. Garnett iirc had a no trade that he explicitly waived so he could go to Boston.
Trying to think of some guys who would challenge Embiid for that distinction....
Maybe Kawhi, but I don't think his defensive impact is as much as a center like Embiid.
I think one thing that helps Embiid defensively is that he doesn't really have to guard any one that good compared to the players that wings and guards have to defend. Other than Jokic, who is an elite offensive center in the NBA? KAT I guess, but he's a clown.
Also, good luck tonight. Hawks and McMillon came to play Game 1 with that blitzkrieg first quarter. I'm hoping that the Sixers catch the outcome of some Hawks youthful inexperience tonight. Many young teams will look at tonight as gravy and job done getting the stolen road game they need in Game 1. Portland did that in their series (and it cost them) and Hawks did that in the Knicks series as well. Philly is in monster trouble if they drop tonight's game. I think they can win one game in Atlanta. But asking them to win two games down there is a tough ask.obviously I'm only basing it on the games vs the Hawks when i say that. In those games he has offered no resistance to Trae in the lane.
I don't put any stock in the W/L record of those games considering the extensive injury list for the Hawks in all those games. Plus any game that Lloyd Pierce coached should be thrown out the window. It's dangerous to look at this Hawks team and look to the regular season for reference. Knicks fans kept saying before the series that the Knicks were going to coast because they were 3-0 vs ATL during the season. That line of logic didn't work out so well for them
First game vs PHI as you said there was no Embiid OR Simmons. ATL was missing Bogi, Gallo, Rondo.
Second game vs PHI you were full strength and we were missing some guy named Trae Young as well as Hunter.
Third game you were full and we had Trae back for first time after ankle sprain, but no Bogi or Hunter.
So throw all those games out the window, they mean nothing.
Full strength Philly vs Hawks still not 100% (Hunter) and we hold a 1-0 edge
I agree to a certain extent. But don't forget about the impact rim protection has in the way the 4 other guys on the floor defend. Thybulle Simmons Green can over play passing lanes, hedge, and gamble because they know the Big Man is behind them to help mitigate blow bys. (Sounds good; didn't work Sunday though, haha). It makes for an interesting debate weighing the value of on the ball defense vs being an impact as a help defender.
oh you don't have to convince me of how much a good rim protector protects the perimeter defenders. Have you met Clint Capela?
Good luck as well. I noticed Doc and Simmons are already campaigning for calls vs Trae. Hopefully Nate does the same thing regarding the moving screens and the tackle football that Philly was allowed to play the last few minutes of game 1. It sounds like Simmons is going to start on Trae. The whole game could come down to how those first 5 minutes are officiated regarding those two.
Agree! I love that playoff gamesmanship of lobbying and what not. Young is very good at playing the game and drawing foul calls. I hope Simmons plays smart and doesn't overdo it. I want a slow build up of physicality so he gains an understanding of where the line is going to be drawn. It's playoff time, so I would lobby for the officials to let them play (within reason of course). But the most important thing for me is that the crew is consistent in where they draw the line so the players can adjust. Also saw the game drew Tony Brothers. That's a bad sign for the Sixers. Dude is a rotten official to begin with but also has a tendency to screw the Sixers. The Sixers win percentage for this year is lowest when Brothers officiates. (.500)
But Boston wasnt the first super team ever constructed, just in that era. And i guess in my eyes it all comes back to them doing it the “right” way as far as having to work out “Real” trades and give up valuable assets vs players just deciding they want to team up via free agency, even taking pay cuts to make the numbers work. But i also realize Im splitting hairs and my bias against lebron is showing through. A big 3 is a big 3 esp when we are talking about hall of famers (sans bosh??) And boston had one first, and kinda forced Lebrons hand if he wanted a ring, even though he was reallt close to beating them the one year they did win it and were all getting older. Still a weak move jumping to miami in my book but whatever.
Miami set off the start of the “player empowerment” super team era, where the star players are basically either the de facto GM (Lebron) or stars are looking to pair up with other stars like miami set the blue print for like kawaii and pg or KD and Kyrie.
Its still exciting to watch, i just feel like it would be a better product if the stars were spread out a bit more which would theoretically lead to less terrible teams. But thats just personal preference, i dislike most of the best all time teams just bc im more inclined to root for the underdog and i dont really have a fave team (used to be gsw with baron davis and richardson but durant killed that)
And i feel like it puts some markets in an insurmountable disadvantage, even if they draft a star, they will likely lose them right when they enter the prime if this trend continues. Will be interesting to see what Dame and Mitchell do this offseason as well as some others that Im forgetting.
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This feels like a much more accurate version of the landscape than the initial post. “Player empowerment” super teams is a worthy phrase.
However I do think you’re overplaying the lack of parity now compared to previous eras. If anything there is more year to year shifting and parity.
Look at the 1980s. Lakers and Celtics dominated with the Pistons having a little burst at the end.
Look at the 1990s. Bulls and Rockets combined for 8 of the 10 titles.
From 2010 to 2019 we had Dallas, Miami, Cleveland, Toronto, the Spurs, and Golden State win. Much more parity than yesteryear.
And Fwiw, 90s had more crappy teams than now too.
That happens cause Danny Green and George Hill were not doing anything with their minutes. Next man up and he hit. The difference was the adjustment on Trae Young defensive scheme.
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