Is Hunter Dickinson the problem?

[boilerzz]

Yep. Essentially half of the list right there.

I'd also add that very few of these guys played more than one year of college basketball. I believe Donovan Mitchell, Tyrese Haliburton, and Jalen Brunson are the only ones that returned to school for another year.

Yep. Good point. Just further affirms that using NBA success (or lack thereof) is a terrible barometer to assess the talent in a conference. But we'll forgive @WeAreDePaul. He's a DePaul fan and therefore doesn't know what talented basketball players look like.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

yes as has long been established all Big 10 players are overrated hacks. In the last 10 years the Big10 has produced exactly 1 starting level NBA player. Keegan Murray. That is not a typo.

Before that you gotta go back over 10 years to Carris Levert to find the next starting level player and he's borderline.

OG Anunoby plays 34 min and 15 ppg.

 

[dukedevilz]

Yep. Good point. Just further affirms that using NBA success (or lack thereof) is a terrible barometer to assess the talent in a conference. But we'll forgive @WeAreDePaul. He's a DePaul fan and therefore doesn't know what talented basketball players look like.

What's crazy is that 2019 DePaul team had Max Strus and Paul Reed, two productive NBA players, and they couldn't even make the NIT.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Yep. Good point. Just further affirms that using NBA success (or lack thereof) is a terrible barometer to assess the talent in a conference. But we'll forgive @WeAreDePaul. He's a DePaul fan and therefore doesn't know what talented basketball players look like.

There's other ways to judge a conferences talent such as how successful their teams do in the tourney. You really want to go down that road with the Big10? 🤣

 

[WeAreDePaul]

What's crazy is that 2019 DePaul team had Max Strus and Paul Reed, two productive NBA players, and they couldn't even make the NIT.

Hold my beer. The 2000 DePaul team had 4 NBA players and couldn't even win a single tourney game.

 

[dukedevilz]

Hold my beer. The 2000 DePaul team had 4 NBA players and couldn't even win a single tourney game.

That was a good DePaul team. Quentin Richardson was especially fun to watch. We got lucky beating you all in Cameron. I want to say Horvath banked in a 3-pointer from the wing in the closing seconds. Such a weird way to win a game.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

That was a good DePaul team. Quentin Richardson was especially fun to watch. We got lucky beating you all in Cameron. I want to say Horvath banked in a 3-pointer from the wing in the closing seconds. Such a weird way to win a game.

it was weird because back then Q played just like Charles Barkely. He was undersized, but stayed around the basket and ate up offensive rebounds. He killed teams down low. Don't recall him ever shooting 3s. And then he goes to the NBA and becomes a 3pt specialist.

 

[boilerzz]

There's other ways to judge a conferences talent such as how successful their teams do in the tourney. You really want to go down that road with the Big10? 🤣

Sure. Since 2000, the Power 6 conference Final Four participants:

ACC 19
Big Ten 16
Big East 15
Big Twelve 12
SEC 11
PAC-12 7

The Big Ten is in a title drought but has more than held it's own in Final Fours.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Sure. Since 2000, the Power 6 conference Final Four participants:

ACC 19
Big Ten 16
Big East 15
Big Twelve 12
SEC 11
PAC-12 7

The Big Ten is in a title drought but has more than held it's own in Final Fours.

the time frame in question is the past 10 years. How do those numbers look?

 

[boilerzz]

the time frame in question is the past 10 years. How do those numbers look?

ACC - 8 teams
Big Ten - 5 teams
Big 12 - 5 teams
SEC - 5 teams
Big East - 4 teams
Pac 12 - 2 teams

 

[Big_C_KU]

Consider:

Dickinson played last season at Michigan. Despite playing on a team with two first round picks, the Wolverines failed to make the NCAA tournament.

In the offseason, Dickinson takes the money and transfers to Kansas. End result; Bill Self loses 7 conference games for the first time in his career and the Jayhawks are struggling down the stretch.

Great players make those around them better. Does Dickinson?

Does Hunter make things much easier on everyone else? No. Especially on defensive side. But outside of that Hunter is far from the problem. The biggest issue is we don’t have any outside shooting, we give up too many 3s, and we have 1 perimeter player on the entire roster who can create his own shot when a possession breaks down and he’s not very efficient at it. You can’t win and be a title contender in this day and age being poor at these 3 things.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Does Hunter make things much easier on everyone else? No. Especially on defensive side. But outside of that Hunter is far from the problem. The biggest issue is we don’t have any outside shooting, we give up too many 3s, and we have 1 perimeter player on the entire roster who can create his own shot when a possession breaks down and he’s not very efficient at it. You can’t win and be a title contender in this day and age being poor at these 3 things.

There are plenty of things to criticize about this team and I said that before the season started. Losing Morris was a huge blow. He’s exactly the type of player they could use right now. But even with him, I thought there would be several more talented/athletic teams out there.

That said….I think some of the worries are overblown. Especially depth. It’s made it tougher to get through the conference grind, but I don’t think it’ll be a huge issue in the dance. Longer TOs, several days between weekends, short rotations, etc. The 2012 team had an even weaker bench than this and would have won it all if not for Anthony Davis.

The weaknesses you mentioned are true to an extent, but I think the problem with this line of thinking is assuming that Self has to have the more talented roster to win. He’s proven that wrong several times this year alone. UConn, Houston, Kentucky, and Tennessee were more talented. Some way more talented. He also beat Baylor and Texas without McCullar. KU’s been inconsistent but they’ve shown up for the big-time matchups. Assuming they’re fairly healthy, I’d assume the effort level we’ll see in the dance will be closer to the Houston/UConn games than WV/UCF.

 

[KisteK]

Consider:

Dickinson played last season at Michigan. Despite playing on a team with two first round picks, the Wolverines failed to make the NCAA tournament.

In the offseason, Dickinson takes the money and transfers to Kansas. End result; Bill Self loses 7 conference games for the first time in his career and the Jayhawks are struggling down the stretch.

Great players make those around them better. Does Dickinson?

Haven't read a second post itt

NCAA investigation overhanging the program, # of schollies used/filled, a catalyst to Kansas' issues
Whatshisface Morris being a violent threat to women, a catalyst

Hunter Dickinson, a scapegoat by fools

 

[MGO2022]

How about Jordan Poole?

Also Duncan Robinson and Franz Wagner

 

[MGO2022]

Anyway, Dickinson wasn’t the problem with last year’s Michigan team, Juwan is just an awful coach

 

[RR30]

Anyway, Dickinson wasn’t the problem with last year’s Michigan team, Juwan is just an awful coach

Funny how quickly the tide changes. I don't follow ya'll close but he went from top upcoming coach to GTFO in like 1.5 years, impressive.