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Your 2023-2024 NCAA champions

Recruiting rankings mean nothing once we're talking about upperclassmen. Why don't we take a look at future NBA players instead to gauge talent which is a lot more logical.

Agbaji, Dick, Braun and Doke were all 1st rounders. Svi and Graham were drafted as well in the 2nd round.

I wasn't talking about rankings. Just look at the list.
Harris, KJ Adams, Braun, Dick and Wilson are the only players from the last 4 classes that accomplished ANYthing at KU.


KU has never had the talent that a Duke has had but even compared to your usual standards, this is an untalented roster.

😂

So why is KU #1 right now according to CBS Sports, Torvik, Goodman, Lunardi, and others? Explain this phenomenon.

Even IF KU had less talent than Duke, what would make you think that Scheyer is in Self's league? Do you think that coaching doesn't matter?


KU has experience going for it so your floor is high but your ceiling is pretty capped. Luckily its a really weak year for college basketball so I still see you guys as being top 5.

Are you serious? Really weak year? There should be several loaded teams.
 
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When it comes to the starting 5 for KU I don’t see there being a big difference in shooting capability between this years team and last years team. In fact I can see the starting 5 for this year being better shooting % wise. Where they’re going to run into issues and Self will have to figure out how to combat opponents not defending Juan, KJ, or HD on the perimeter. Juan has a slow release, they’d rather see HD on the perimeter than in the post, and KJ hasn’t shown the ability to even make it to the rim from 3. The best way to do that will be putting opponents into a lot of ball screen at the FT line and middle of the court something similar that they did in 2020 when teams played off KU on the perimeter a lot because they weren’t a great shooting team. The big difference for KU next season will be the shooting off the bench and overall talent level should be much better from there even with freshman. Like always will take some figuring the system out by the newcomers but having 19 seasons of college ball in the starting lineup and 3 of them being returning starters should really help ease that adjustment for the team.

KU should also be really good defensively. Juan and McCullar at times couldn’t play the level of defense they’re capable of because they couldn’t get into foul trouble and the times they did get beat there was no rim protection. HD may not be a big shot blocker but he’ll still be much more of a deterrent than what KJ was at the rim last year.
 
Says the guy who keeps bringing up Harris's FT% to discredit his 3 pt%, without the context that he attempted almost twice as many threes as FTs. 😆
Fair enough, the sample size of both is honestly tiny enough that you can’t really draw any conclusions about how good of a shooter Harris is.

He’s a guy that averaged 34 minutes a game and had a total of 74 3s and 47 FTs. Harris is an extremely low volume shooter so how that’ll translate to next year when he’ll have to likely shoot or taken a larger scoring load is up in the air.

I certainly wouldn’t count on him to be as efficient or even more efficient if his volume increases a lot. What we know is he benefited from the gravity provided by star guards/wings in Agbaji, Braun, Wilson and Dick the last few years.

He’s also not on draft boards so it’d be a stretch to see him randomly blow up. He is who he is at this point.
 
I'm not denying that Roach is better at creating his shot, but does scoring a couple more buckets while taking several more shots/game make up for having HALF as many assists and steals? No. Harris does more to help his team win.

Roach shared the court with a superior playmaker in Proctor who became our PG in the latter part of our season. Roach is a SG, Proctor is the guy you should be comparing Harris to and Duke would have a huge edge there as he’s expected to blow up next year.

Proctor reclassified last year and was one of the youngest players in college basketball and improved massively over the course of the year. He’s projected to be a lottery pick next year so analysts/scouts expect him to have an All-American type season.

So pay attention to the last 5 or so games and ignore the rest of his career. Okay then. Harris averaged a higher FG % over the last half season, btw. In a stronger league. It's interesting that you put so much stock in what Duke players accomplished in a handful of games while dismissing KU trends over longer periods of time.

5 games?? Try 10. If you don’t think a 10 game sample size is meaningful in college basketball, especially when talking about a team with all freshmen, you’re nuts. When projecting the following season, what a team did in Feb and March should matter the most if most of the roster is returning.

To make you happy, I’ll even extend the sample size to 15 games.

Over Duke’s last 15 games from 1/31:

Roach: 90/188 from the field (47.9%) and 21/58 from 3 (36.2%)

Proctor: 54/138 from the field (43.3%) and 24/60 from 3 (40%)
 
You think KU fans are expecting Harris to take on more of a scoring load to make up for the loss of Wilson/Dick? 🤣

Remember that guy who averaged 19 ppg at Michigan, and all the other dudes they added? No one's expecting Harris to be anything but what he was last year.

I can tell you right now that if Roach were on KU's roster, Self wouldn't even consider starting him over Harris. Self loves Harris and has basically stated that he's going to be the starting PG as long as he's here. Guess you know more about b-ball than Self?
KU added Dickinson but I’m not seeing a proven go to scorer besides him. If Harris is the same low volume shooter as last year, you’ll need a few other guys to step up and be bucket getters. You’re counting on either a 5 star freshman, a former 5 star recruit or a CAA transfer to step up.

I think it’s fair to say McCullar and KJ aren’t going to suddenly blow up and be great shooters.

If Roach were on your team, he’d be your starting SG. The starting lineup would be Harris, Roach, McCullar, KJ and Dickinson.
 
You were claiming that shooting typically doesn't carry over from the midmajor level to high major. Then you mentioned multiple players who actually increased their shooting percentage considerably after moving to the big leagues. That's a backfire, no matter how you slice it.

Naturally, you want to focus on the cons rather than the pros. Timberlake won't be in the CAA anymore, but he also won't draw nearly as much attention from defenses. What do you think's going to happen when Dickinson is double teamed? Timberlake's going to be standing wide open behind the arc.
Shooters need touches and sometimes scorers need the ball in their hands to get into rhythm. Timberlake had the ball in his hand a lot at Towson so he’ll need to adjust to be a standstill shooter now and not a primary playmaking and scoring option.

You seem to be assuming the best case scenario there. I wouldn’t.
 
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Shooters need touches and sometimes scorers need the ball in their hands to get into rhythm. Timberlake had the ball in his hand a lot at Towson so he’ll need to adjust to be a standstill shooter now and not a primary playmaking and scoring option.

You seem to be assuming the best case scenario there. I wouldn’t.

Agreed, though the good players/shooters can adjust fairly easily. I know Kellen Grady went from running the show at Davidson to being an off ball 3 at Kentucky and his shooting percentages went up. Not having to be the primary guy especially at a bigger school means you should be taking higher percentage shots more frequently.
 
Fair enough, the sample size of both is honestly tiny enough that you can’t really draw any conclusions about how good of a shooter Harris is.

He’s a guy that averaged 34 minutes a game and had a total of 74 3s and 47 FTs. Harris is an extremely low volume shooter so how that’ll translate to next year when he’ll have to likely shoot or taken a larger scoring load is up in the air.

I certainly wouldn’t count on him to be as efficient or even more efficient if his volume increases a lot. What we know is he benefited from the gravity provided by star guards/wings in Agbaji, Braun, Wilson and Dick the last few years.

He’s also not on draft boards so it’d be a stretch to see him randomly blow up. He is who he is at this point.

Harris has 150 career 3 pt attempts at close to 40%. That sample is plenty large enough to draw conclusions. He’s not someone that you want taking a ton of threes due to his slow release, but he can hit the open shot reliably. I don’t know why you keep saying he’ll need to take on a bigger scoring load. I don’t think anyone in the staff or fanbase expects that to be necessary.
 
Roach shared the court with a superior playmaker in Proctor who became our PG in the latter part of our season. Roach is a SG, Proctor is the guy you should be comparing Harris to and Duke would have a huge edge there as he’s expected to blow up next year.

Proctor reclassified last year and was one of the youngest players in college basketball and improved massively over the course of the year. He’s projected to be a lottery pick next year so analysts/scouts expect him to have an All-American type season.



5 games?? Try 10. If you don’t think a 10 game sample size is meaningful in college basketball, especially when talking about a team with all freshmen, you’re nuts. When projecting the following season, what a team did in Feb and March should matter the most if most of the roster is returning.

To make you happy, I’ll even extend the sample size to 15 games.

Over Duke’s last 15 games from 1/31:

Roach: 90/188 from the field (47.9%) and 21/58 from 3 (36.2%)

Proctor: 54/138 from the field (43.3%) and 24/60 from 3 (40%)

So 150 threes is a tiny sample, but 58 is meaningful?

This is the issue with all your arguments. You have absurd double standards. You dig for holes in KU’s roster, while overlooking all of Duke’s.

Proctor is “expected” to blow up, but expectations should be low for Morris, yada yada.

The only reason that some people think more highly of Proctor than Morris right now is that Proctor played on a team with much weaker guards. Morris would have been the most talented guard on Duke’s roster.

Your dismissal of Morris is like dismissing the ability of a highly-drafted QB who sat behind Mahomes for a year.
 
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The only reason that some people think more highly of Proctor than Morris right now is that Proctor played on a team with much weaker guards. Morris would have been the best guard on Duke’s roster.

I definitely wouldn’t go that far with Morris. I do believe though had he gone anywhere else other than Texas last season he’s probably getting 22+ mpg (instead of 11 mpg) and probably averaging closer to 10-12 ppg. Morris was 5th in their perimeter rotation behind a slew of experience guards/wings. If he was transferring to KU with 10+ PPG game as a freshman there would be a completely different thought about him.

On Timberlake I’m not worried about the shooting stepping up from MM to B12. He should honestly see a lot more open looks than what he saw at Towson with KU playing inside-out. Open looks are open looks no matter the competition. What probably won’t translate is the ability to score off the dribble as well. Honestly won’t be needed as KU has never relied a ton on guys scoring off the dribble under Self.

Scoring balance wise I expect we’ll see Dickinson to pretty much make up what Wilson scored in a more efficient manner. McCullar probably a couple more PPG making up for the difference lost from Dick that Timberlake doesn’t fully make up. I can see Harris being at 10 PPG as long as he is consistently aggressive on offense this season. KJ is can see taking a decent dip down in scoring because he’s having to try and score in a much different variety this next season. The wild card will be what Morris adds off to bench if he gets 24+ mpg and can be in the 10-12 ppg range that would be massive for KU. Then just need a small scoring punch from Elmarko and MAJ to get to 75-80 ppg range. The key for KU is the defense and rebounding should be much improved.
 
So 150 threes is a tiny sample, but 58 is meaningful?

This is the issue with all your arguments. You have absurd double standards. You dig for holes in KU’s roster, while overlooking all of Duke’s.

Proctor is “expected” to blow up, but expectations should be low for Morris, yada yada.

The only reason that some people think more highly of Proctor than Morris right now is that Proctor played on a team with much weaker guards. Morris would have been the best guard on Duke’s roster.

Your dismissal of Morris is like dismissing the ability of a highly-drafted QB who sat behind Mahomes for a year.
You guys should be soaked with this pissing match.
 
KU added Dickinson but I’m not seeing a proven go to scorer besides him. If Harris is the same low volume shooter as last year, you’ll need a few other guys to step up and be bucket getters. You’re counting on either a 5 star freshman, a former 5 star recruit or a CAA transfer to step up.

I think it’s fair to say McCullar and KJ aren’t going to suddenly blow up and be great shooters.

I expect Timberlake and Morris to be the primary outside shooters, with Harris and Dickinson hitting the occasional open three reliably. Marcus Adams has plenty of shooting potential. Nobody's expecting McCullar or KJ to suddenly become great shooters, but McCullar isn’t a lot worse than Duke's returnees. The three returnees that shot the bulk of your threes combined for 31% last year. If that's your standard for having "proven" shooters, I think KU will be just fine.

I know, I know....Roach and Proctor shot a solid % over their last several games and you assume that'll carry over. Morris shot almost 40% from three if you take out the first few games of the year (45% the second half of the year), and Harris shot 43% the last 2/3 of the season and consistently scored in double figures down the stretch. But for some reason you don't expect these numbers to carry over. Go figure.

Roach has a career 3 pt % of 32.8 on a ton of attempts over a three year span. There's no reason to expect that number to increase much at this point. You're likely going to be relying heavily on freshmen for shooting. How's that usually work out?

Shooting could be an issue when they put KJ and McCullar on the court together, but there's a flipside to that. A lineup of Harris/Morris/McCullar/KJ/Dickinson wouldn't need to blaze the nets because they'll wreck opponents defensively. Now if you run out a lineup of Harris/Morris/Timberlake/Marcus Adams/Dickinson, you'd likely have three really solid outside shooters combined with two guys who can hit the open look at better than 40%.

It's obvious that you don't even want to try to be objective. I haven't seen you mention one concern about Duke's roster. In fact, you said they have everything.

We're loaded with guards, talent, experience, continuity, shooting and defense son.

Yeah, there's talent, guards with potential, and a little continuity. Experience? Nah. You're full of freshmen and sophs and need major contributions from at least 1-2 freshmen. Shooting? Only if the freshmen kill it. Defense? Who’s the rim protector? How many players on the roster are intimidating defensively?

KU checks each of those boxes and has the proven coach.
 
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Harris has 150 career 3 pt attempts at close to 40%. That sample is plenty large enough to draw conclusions. He’s not someone that you want taking a ton of threes due to his slow release, but he can hit the open shot reliably. I don’t know why you keep saying he’ll need to take on a bigger scoring load. I don’t think anyone in the staff or fanbase expects that to be necessary.
Ok that's fair, It sounds like Harris is a reliable open shooter in addition to his qualities as an elite playmaker and defender. I think we're on the same page that he can't really attack the rim outside of transition/broken play and he can't create his own shot in the midrange.

Duke's guards are both complete players who can create their own shot and score at all levels off the floor. Roach isn't the playmaker and defender that Harris is but he's a solid secondary option and Tyrese is just as good as Harris in those areas and is likely even better on defense. Proctor is 6"5 with a 6"7 wingspan and absolutely bottled up a lot of the top guards in the country last year.

You need elite scoring guard play to win in March. Harris is not much of a scorer and Morris is still unproven as he hasn't gotten a lot of PT.
 
I definitely wouldn’t go that far with Morris. I do believe though had he gone anywhere else other than Texas last season he’s probably getting 22+ mpg (instead of 11 mpg) and probably averaging closer to 10-12 ppg. Morris was 5th in their perimeter rotation behind a slew of experience guards/wings. If he was transferring to KU with 10+ PPG game as a freshman there would be a completely different thought about him.

If Morris had been on Duke's roster, he probably wouldn't have gotten as many minutes as Roach due to the experience edge, but I think his ceiling is definitely higher than Roach's/Proctor's. More athletic, more explosive, better shooter.

The average fan has no idea how loaded that Texas roster was. Dillon Mitchell was a top 5 recruit and he was 8th on the team in minutes, with a lower scoring average than Morris. Yet he has a solid chance to be drafted in the 1st round next month.

Mitchell and Morris would have gotten a ton of minutes (and produced well) for practically any other team.


On Timberlake I’m not worried about the shooting stepping up from MM to B12. He should honestly see a lot more open looks than what he saw at Towson with KU playing inside-out. Open looks are open looks no matter the competition. What probably won’t translate is the ability to score off the dribble as well. Honestly won’t be needed as KU has never relied a ton on guys scoring off the dribble under Self.

Exactly. There's no reason to expect a significant dip in his shooting percentage. It might even improve.
 
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So 150 threes is a tiny sample, but 58 is meaningful?

This is the issue with all your arguments. You have absurd double standards. You dig for holes in KU’s roster, while overlooking all of Duke’s.

Proctor is “expected” to blow up, but expectations should be low for Morris, yada yada.

The only reason that some people think more highly of Proctor than Morris right now is that Proctor played on a team with much weaker guards. Morris would have been the best guard on Duke’s roster.

Your dismissal of Morris is like dismissing the ability of a highly-drafted QB who sat behind Mahomes for a year.
I don't have absurd double standards. You clearly don't consider the last month and a half of games in a season to be more important than the whole season while I do. I explained to you that Roach recovered from injury and he moved off ball and let Proctor be the playmaker later in the season which resulted in his better 3 point shooting. I expect Roach to shoot 38-40% from 3 on high volume next year.

Your 150 3s is over a sample of 3 seasons which is still miniscule considering how the roster around Harris has been different each year. You've convinced me he's a reliable open 3 point shooter though so that's fine.

Your Mahomes example is absurd. Marcus Carr, Tyrese Hunter and Sir Jabari Rice weren't All-Americans last year. If Arterio Morris was a standout as freshman, he would've earned more PT. Morris was clearly behind all those guys in the pecking order based on practices.

Its possible he breaks out this year at KU but saying he would've been Duke's best guard this year is downright laughable.

Expecting a Proctor breakout as a sophomore is not just my personal opinion, its what scouts/draft analysts/media members are expecting as well.


Proctor: #6 (highest non freshman)
Flip: #10


Proctor: #8
Flip: #18


Proctor: #9
Flip: #27
 
I don't have absurd double standards. You clearly don't consider the last month and a half of games in a season to be more important than the whole season while I do. I explained to you that Roach recovered from injury and he moved off ball and let Proctor be the playmaker later in the season which resulted in his better 3 point shooting. I expect Roach to shoot 38-40% from 3 on high volume next year.
Your 150 3s is over a sample of 3 seasons which is still miniscule considering how the roster around Harris has been different each year. You've convinced me he's a reliable open 3 point shooter though so that's fine.

150 threes is a miniscule sample, but not Proctor's 60 attempts? No double standard, eh….


Your Mahomes example is absurd.

Obviously I wasn't saying that Texas's backcourt was the equivalent of Mahomes. The point was that his minutes/production were only limited because he was behind really good and established players. If the example is bad, it's because Morris actually played and showed plenty of flashes, including dropping 25 in 18 minutes.

Marcus Carr, Tyrese Hunter and Sir Jabari Rice weren't All-Americans last year. If Arterio Morris was a standout as freshman, he would've earned more PT. Morris was clearly behind all those guys in the pecking order based on practices.

Its possible he breaks out this year at KU but saying he would've been Duke's best guard this year is downright laughable.

I meant the most talented. Not that he'd necessarily have the best stats. Roach would have the edge there due to experience and usage. But Morris's per 40 numbers were better than Roach's.

Carr, Hunter and Rice are all supremely talented. All three are probably better than Roach and Proctor at this point. There's no shame in being behind them in minutes as a freshman.

Expecting a Proctor breakout as a sophomore is not just my personal opinion, its what scouts/draft analysts/media members are expecting as well.


Proctor: #6 (highest non freshman)
Flip: #10


Proctor: #8
Flip: #18


Proctor: #9
Flip: #27

I'm not saying that Proctor won't have a good year, or even that he won't go lottery (although I'll believe it when I see it). The point is that you give every Duke player the benefit of the doubt while assuming the worst case scenario for every KU player.

Even if they're both high picks next year, that doesn't mean they had a dominant season. We all know the NBA largely drafts on potential. Look at the projected lottery picks this year. Few of them dominated CBB. And don’t forget that you’ll have two likely first round picks next month (one might go lottery), both of which you’ve treated like disposable walk-ons.
 
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You losers can take Duke and Kansas for the natty and I'll take the field. Winner gets to pick the loser(s) avatar for the rest of eternity. What say you?

I’d never take one team vs the field. Besides, I never said that KU should be a prohibitive favorite or anything like that.
 
I’d never take one team vs the field. Besides, I never said that KU should be a prohibitive favorite or anything like that.
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Technically he offered 2 teams.

I figured he meant nish would take Duke and I’d have KU.

Still don’t like the odds of two teams vs the field. Unless it’s a 2021 kind of situation. Baylor and Gonzaga were pretty clearly on a different level from the rest that year.
 
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150 threes is a miniscule sample, but not Proctor's 60 attempts? No double standard, eh….
Proctor's 60 attempts were over the course of February and March of his freshman year where he clearly showed growth as a 3 point shooter.

I was skeptical of Harris being a prolific shooter because he only shot 60% from the FT line which is terrible for a guard. He did shoot better from the line earlier in his career so maybe this past season was a fluke.

Again, I'm sold that he can be a reliable open catch and shoot guy for you but in my experience, title teams need their starting PG to be more dynamic than that as offensive threats.

Obviously I wasn't saying that Texas's backcourt was the equivalent of Mahomes. The point was that his minutes/production were only limited because he was behind really good and established players. If the example is bad, it's because Morris actually played and showed plenty of flashes, including dropping 25 in 18 minutes.
My point here is he wasn't good enough as a freshman to unseat any of those guys so how good he"ll be at KU getting 20-25 minutes is just speculation on your part.

McCain, Foster and Roach on Duke's team could all be more impactful than him next year. McCain is a top 10ish 5 star guard and Foster is a top 20 5 star guard we have incoming next year.

Duke has so many "outs" next year in poker terms. We literally has 7 guys who could be high impact players/studs (Foster, McCain, Roach, Proctor, Mitchell, Flip and Power).

KU has proven production returning but they're at the stage of their college careers that they're unlikely to make a massive jump. Harris is unlikely to become a 16-18 PPG player. McCullar is unlikely to be a 38% 3 point shooter, Timberlake is unlikely to become a lockdown defender and Dickinson is unlikely to become a great rim protector/post defender, etc. etc.

Its the combination of pro talent, sophomores who got meaningful playing time and quality roster depth that pushes Duke over the top of KU for me to be #1.

I meant the most talented. Not that he'd necessarily have the best stats. Roach would have the edge there due to experience and usage. But Morris's per 40 numbers were better than Roach's.

Carr, Hunter and Rice are all supremely talented. All three are probably better than Roach and Proctor at this point. There's no shame in being behind them in minutes as a freshman.
Do you know what the word "talent" means? It equates to what the final form of a player has the potential to be in college and beyond. Given Morris is not on any draft boards this year or next, its absurd to say he's more talented than Tyrese Proctor who's a consensus lottery pick.

Roach is a veteran guard who singlehandedly won Duke big games last year in the NCAAT (Sweet 16 vs Texas Tech) and this year vs UVA, Miami and Oral Roberts. Comparing per 40 minutes for a high usage guy vs a role player who saw minimal playing time is an exercise in futility.

Carr, Hunter and Rice are so supremely talented that all these guys are either going undrafted or in the case of Hunter returning to UT.

I'm not saying that Proctor won't have a good year, or even that he won't go lottery (although I'll believe it when I see it). The point is that you give every Duke player the benefit of the doubt while assuming the worst case scenario for every KU player.

Even if they're both high picks next year, that doesn't mean they had a dominant season. We all know the NBA largely drafts on potential. Look at the projected lottery picks this year. Few of them dominated CBB. And don’t forget that you’ll have two likely first round picks next month (one might go lottery), both of which you’ve treated like disposable walk-ons.
Dude this isn't my personal opinion and evaluation of Proctor that's glowing. To be projected as a lottery pick, draft scouts and analysts are very high on his talent and physical measurables. If he doesn't have a great sophomore season, that stock will inevitably slip but at this moment I'm siding with the basketball cognoscenti here and banking on his growth at the end of his freshman year to be part of a trend.

I'm assuming major growth for the Duke players since they're all higher ranked recruits and are all on NBA draft boards either next year or in the years after. The biggest jumps amongst blue chip recruits tends to be between their freshman year and sophomore years. Grayson Allen, Luke Kennard, Wendell Moore and Tre Jones are recent examples just from the Duke Basketball program.

Again, if Flip and Proctor don't show growth next year, they'll slide out of the 1st Round but that's not what the draft scouts, experts and CBB media members are saying so I"ll side with their knowledge on the matter.
 
Duke is a 3 or 4 seed at best next year.
Nah, we"ll be a top 5 team for the next three years with our recruiting classes. Wait till you see how good Cooper Flagg is in 2024 and Cameron Boozer is in 2025. We've got a really good shot to win a Natty in the next 3 years.

Once Bill retires to take care of his health, where will that leave KU? On probation? A mid tier Big 12 team?
 
Nah, we"ll be a top 5 team for the next three years with our recruiting classes. Wait till you see how good Cooper Flagg is in 2024 and Cameron Boozer is in 2025. We've got a really good shot to win a Natty in the next 3 years.

Once Bill retires to take care of his health, where will that leave KU? On probation? A mid tier Big 12 team?
Isn't that kid a UNC lean ? ;)
 
Nah, we"ll be a top 5 team for the next three years with our recruiting classes. Wait till you see how good Cooper Flagg is in 2024 and Cameron Boozer is in 2025. We've got a really good shot to win a Natty in the next 3 years.

Once Bill retires to take care of his health, where will that leave KU? On probation? A mid tier Big 12 team?
KU doesn't hire unknown shmucks to be 5 seeds. They will go hire a proven coach.
 
Proctor's 60 attempts were over the course of February and March of his freshman year where he clearly showed growth as a 3 point shooter.

Even down the stretch he was pretty inconsistent. 27% in his last three games and he had three 0-fers shortly before that.

Even if he averages close to 40% next season (which would be a big jump), that's one above average 3 pt shooter.

I was skeptical of Harris being a prolific shooter because he only shot 60% from the FT line which is terrible for a guard. He did shoot better from the line earlier in his career so maybe this past season was a fluke.

It makes zero sense to dismiss 150 threes as a miniscule sample, while harping on 47 FTs. Especially when his career FT% is much higher.

Again, I'm sold that he can be a reliable open catch and shoot guy for you but in my experience, title teams need their starting PG to be more dynamic than that as offensive threats.

And again......who was the starting PG for the '22 national champ? I agree that you need dynamic guard play, but you don't necessarily need your starting PG to provide it. Especially when he excels as a playmaker and defender.

You know what's necessary to win a title? Experience. And none of Duke's key players will have more than a year of it.

My point here is he wasn't good enough as a freshman to unseat any of those guys so how good he"ll be at KU getting 20-25 minutes is just speculation on your part.

Again, not being able to unseat some of the best players from the best conference as a freshman is nothing to be ashamed by. Nobody's saying that he was a dominant force as a freshman. But he showed a lot of potential and will probably have a pretty big impact this year.

Of course it's speculation. It also takes a lot of speculation to vault a 5 seed that lost two NBA players to #1 in the nation.

KU has proven production returning but they're at the stage of their college careers that they're unlikely to make a massive jump. Harris is unlikely to become a 16-18 PPG player. McCullar is unlikely to be a 38% 3 point shooter, Timberlake is unlikely to become a lockdown defender and Dickinson is unlikely to become a great rim protector/post defender, etc. etc.

You're right. KU's team isn't likely to have zero weaknesses. Now talk about Duke's weaknesses. Who's your rim protector? Filipowski averages less than half as many blocks as the guy you just called out. And we've already established that you don't have much proven shooting or experience. Plus an unproven coach who didn't wow anyone in year 1.


Carr, Hunter and Rice are so supremely talented that all these guys are either going undrafted or in the case of Hunter returning to UT.

Strange take from someone who completely dismissed the loss of two first rounders while hyping a bunch of Duke players that aren't getting drafted this year. 🤣
 
Isn't that kid a UNC lean ? ;)

Nope, our insiders are confident we get him and they're rarely wrong when it comes to HS recruiting.

KU doesn't hire unknown shmucks to be 5 seeds. They will go hire a proven coach.

Ha who exactly? If by "unknown shmuck" you mean the lead recruiter at Duke for our top 2 recruiting classes for the last decade in Scheyer. He's roster building better than K did this past decade and I'll bet he picked up a few things or two about Xs & Os from the GOAT.

Even if he averages close to 40% next season (which would be a big jump), that's one above average 3 pt shooter.

NCAA tournament teams shoot on average 34-35.9% from 3. Roach should be an above average shooter as well as he's improved every year and shot 38% in his last 15 games post toe injury.

Mitchell shot 35% from 3 last year so he could definitely improve upon that as a sophomore.

One of the freshmen could be 36-38% from 3 but its wait and see for them.

You know what's necessary to win a title? Experience. And none of Duke's key players will have more than a year of it.

Its clear that since Duke and KU build rosters differently so we have our own set of biases.

Duke almost never has this much experience coming back. 3 Sophomores who are potential 1st round picks and got a ton of playing time as Freshmen, a Senior PG in Roach and a veteran grad transfer big man in Ryan Young to supplement our top 2 draft class.

From a continuity standpoint, this is very experienced at the college level.

KU's players are older but you're relying on 3 transfers from other programs to translate at KU and mesh together with some key returning guys.

Not all experience is the same.

You're right. KU's team isn't likely to have zero weaknesses. Now talk about Duke's weaknesses. Who's your rim protector? Filipowski averages less than half as many blocks as the guy you just called out. And we've already established that you don't have much proven shooting or experience. Plus an unproven coach who didn't wow anyone in year 1.

Rim protection could be a weakness depending on how Flip does at the 5. He didn't get a lot of blocks since Lively or Young played so many center minutes so we"ll see.

Scheyer did wow in Season 1 by any reasonable standards. We lost 3 1st round picks and only returned Roach to supplement our recruiting class and we ended up 1 game away from winning the ACC regular season crown and we won the ACCT.

We lost earlier than expected to Tennessee in the 2nd round but they were the higher seeded team and were ranked higher according to KenPom and our best wing defender Mitchell couldn't play in the game.

Strange take from someone who completely dismissed the loss of two first rounders while hyping a bunch of Duke players that aren't getting drafted this year. 🤣

How is it a strange take? Those returning Duke players are going to get drafted next year so they're coming back to improve their stock.

Lively and Whitehead were expected to depart the second they set foot on campus so it wasn't exactly shocking news that they left. You're acting like we just lost Bagley and Carter or Zion and Barrett.

Dariq Whitehead came off the bench for us and Lively, while being a terrific defender, averaged 5.2 PPG.

These are the least impactful draft losses that Duke Basketball might have had in a decade.
 
Its clear that since Duke and KU build rosters differently so we have our own set of biases.

Duke almost never has this much experience coming back. 3 Sophomores who are potential 1st round picks and got a ton of playing time as Freshmen, a Senior PG in Roach and a veteran grad transfer big man in Ryan Young to supplement our top 2 draft class.

From a continuity standpoint, this is very experienced at the college level.

KU's players are older but you're relying on 3 transfers from other programs to translate at KU and mesh together with some key returning guys.

Not all experience is the same.

Half your rotation will have 1 year of experience and the other half will have 0. That's not a lot of experience no matter how you slice it.

The rotations of national champs are almost always chock full of juniors and seniors. Duke's last championship roster was one of the youngest, but even they had 3 or 4 juniors/seniors that played large roles. Plus, their freshmen were unusually talented. This year's freshman and sophomore classes aren't at the same level.

Scheyer did wow in Season 1 by any reasonable standards. We lost 3 1st round picks and only returned Roach to supplement our recruiting class and we ended up 1 game away from winning the ACC regular season crown and we won the ACCT.

We lost earlier than expected to Tennessee in the 2nd round but they were the higher seeded team and were ranked higher according to KenPom and our best wing defender Mitchell couldn't play in the game.

So your expectations were met last season?

How is it a strange take? Those returning Duke players are going to get drafted next year so they're coming back to improve their stock.

Because your inconsistencies are showing again. You're using players' alleged draft stock as the barometer of their ability to produce at the college level, after scoffing at the loss of two guys who are likely going in the first round (one possibly lottery). Next year, you'll probably be saying "Proctor was okay, but we won't miss him. He was just drafted highly based on potential." Tyrese Hunter returned to college for the same reason as Duke's players.
 
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Half your rotation will have 1 year of experience and the other half will have 0. That's not a lot of experience no matter how you slice it.

The rotations of national champs are almost always chock full of juniors and seniors. Duke's last championship roster was one of the youngest, but even they had 3 or 4 juniors/seniors that played large roles. Plus, their freshmen were unusually talented. This year's freshman and sophomore classes aren't at the same level.
So you're just going to ignore that our starting SG is a Senior with Final 4 experience and our backup big man Ryan Young is a graduate transfer with 5 years of experience?

This is to supplement 3 sophomores who played major minutes last year and are projected 1st round picks next year.

We're only going to start 1 freshman next year either Power, Foster or McCain.

Duke is going to return its top 4 scorers from the year before and that hasn't happened since 1986 I believe.

UConn's championship roster has 6 major contributors last year: Tristen Newton (Transfer Senior), Jordan Hawkins (Sophomore), Andre Jackson Jr. (Junior), Adama Sanogo (Junior), Alex Karaban (Freshman) and Donovan Clingan (Freshman).

Add up their experience: 4 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 14

Duke's top 6 in minutes likely next year: Roach (Senior), Proctor (Sophomore), Mitchell (Sophomore), Flip (Sophomore), Power (Freshman) and Ryan Young (Graduate Transfer)

4 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 5 = 16

If you remove Clingan and Young, then UConn's Main 5 still has 13 years of experience while Duke has 11 so its close.
 
So your expectations were met last season?
Yes absolutely. I wish we went further in the NCAAT but that's a crapshoot. If we based an entire season based on that, Matt Painter would be fired and Self might have been fired after Northern Iowa/Wichita St/Bradley/Stanford losses.

We lost 4 players to the NBA Draft in the 1st Round, returned 1 upperclassmen and then had a top recruiting class in a down year. We also replaced our HOF coach with a 1st year coach.

After a rocky start, the group gelled and we won 10 out of our last 11 games, won the ACC Tournament and only lost 2 games at full strength.

I"ll give Scheyer an A- for Year 1.
 
So you're just going to ignore that our starting SG is a Senior with Final 4 experience and our backup big man Ryan Young is a graduate transfer with 5 years of experience?

This is to supplement 3 sophomores who played major minutes last year and are projected 1st round picks next year.

We're only going to start 1 freshman next year either Power, Foster or McCain.

Duke is going to return its top 4 scorers from the year before and that hasn't happened since 1986 I believe.

UConn's championship roster has 6 major contributors last year: Tristen Newton (Transfer Senior), Jordan Hawkins (Sophomore), Andre Jackson Jr. (Junior), Adama Sanogo (Junior), Alex Karaban (Freshman) and Donovan Clingan (Freshman).

Add up their experience: 4 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 14

Duke's top 6 in minutes likely next year: Roach (Senior), Proctor (Sophomore), Mitchell (Sophomore), Flip (Sophomore), Power (Freshman) and Ryan Young (Graduate Transfer)

4 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 5 = 16

If you remove Clingan and Young, then UConn's Main 5 still has 13 years of experience while Duke has 11 so its close.

My fault. Not sure how I left Roach out. Still....championship teams usually have a ton of experience throughout the rotation. As for Ryan Young...is he even going to play more than a few minutes? If they're playing Filipowski at the 5, there can't be many minutes left over. And if he does end up playing a lot, that's probably not a good thing. He's not going to make a major contribution to a title run.

The reason Duke never returns their top scorers is because they usually have more dominant players at the top.
 
Kansas loses a freshman guard.
Now sits at 10 scholarship players.

Will Self add another body..

Still some really good talent in the portal.
 
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