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Will Bron END UP the GOAT?

translation - "ya got me. I cannot refute what you said. Was silly of me to think having a broken foot was no different than a healthy foot."
That’s not what I said. You can’t follow a line of argument here. I stated that having a broken foot is not the same as being out of basketball and doing another sport for 2 years.

Again, answer my question:

What would be easier for Trout or Sherzer? Coming back from a broken foot or taking 2 years off to try and play professional basketball?
 
That’s not what I said. You can’t follow a line of argument here. I stated that having a broken foot is not the same as being out of basketball and doing another sport for 2 years.

Again, answer my question:

What would be easier for Trout or Sherzer? Coming back from a broken foot or taking 2 years off to try and play professional basketball?
Can we let Nomar Garciaparra weigh in? Not a broken foot, but was never the same after he was hurt.

And wouldn't a closer analogy to a foot for a bball player be an arm for a pitcher? should we see what Matt Harvey thinks?

And it's not just about "coming back" it is simply getting ready to play. One guy had a broken foot then came back and had 18 games to get ready. The same guy was out 1.5 years with a healthy foot so he could play during that time, then had 18 games to get ready.

You think 18 games of real NBA games not enough to get ready, but ignore they play about 8-10 fake games in preseason to get ready....and they maybe play half the games or not at all.
 
Can we let Nomar Garciaparra weigh in? Not a broken foot, but was never the same after he was hurt.

And wouldn't a closer analogy to a foot for a bball player be an arm for a pitcher? should we see what Matt Harvey thinks?

And it's not just about "coming back" it is simply getting ready to play. One guy had a broken foot then came back and had 18 games to get ready. The same guy was out 1.5 years with a healthy foot so he could play during that time, then had 18 games to get ready.

You think 18 games of real NBA games not enough to get ready, but ignore they play about 8-10 fake games in preseason to get ready....and they maybe play half the games or not at all.
Oh lord what a hodgepodge tosort through here. First, a broken foot usually takes 6-8 weeks to heal. Referencing an arm injury like TJ that requires surgery and around a year of rehab is hardly the same thing. My brother is a professional pitcher and has had TJ twice. Oddly enough, you mention Harvey, whom I know personally. It wasn’t just TJ but TOS surgery as well. And he hasn’t really come back from that.

You keep saying he was out for 1.5 years like he was doing nothing. He was playing baseball. Do you know how many games baseball players play? Do you know the types of workouts they engage in? He didn’t have time to play basketball. Guys that get ready in a short preseason have been training all off season and playing basketball already. Jordan wasn’t doing this.
 
Oh lord what a hodgepodge tosort through here. First, a broken foot usually takes 6-8 weeks to heal. Referencing an arm injury like TJ that requires surgery and around a year of rehab is hardly the same thing. My brother is a professional pitcher and has had TJ twice. Oddly enough, you mention Harvey, whom I know personally. It wasn’t just TJ but TOS surgery as well. And he hasn’t really come back from that.

You keep saying he was out for 1.5 years like he was doing nothing. He was playing baseball. Do you know how many games baseball players play? Do you know the types of workouts they engage in? He didn’t have time to play basketball. Guys that get ready in a short preseason have been training all off season and playing basketball already. Jordan wasn’t doing this.
Maybe you weren't aware but the season ends in September in the minors and doesn't start up again until Feb/March for ST. close to 6 months. You thinking he was on his couch eating bon bons?

Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.

Game....set.....match.
 
Maybe you weren't aware but the season ends in September in the minors and doesn't start up again until Feb/March for ST. close to 6 months. You thinking he was on his couch eating bon bons?

Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.

Game....set.....match.
Maybe you weren’t aware of the Arizona Fall league where Jordan actually showed out pretty well. He then took a couple of months off where he still focused on baseball. Players report to Spring Training in February. On March 10th, Jordan played his last minor league game. On March 18th, he was back on the court for the Bulls.

Lol at your ******ed game/set/match comment.
 
Maybe you weren’t aware of the Arizona Fall league where Jordan actually showed out pretty well. He then took a couple of months off where he still focused on baseball. Players report to Spring Training in February. On March 10th, Jordan played his last minor league game. On March 18th, he was back on the court for the Bulls.

Lol at your ******ed game/set/match comment.
Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.
 
Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.

You just sound more idiotic every time you say it. But keep beating that drum.

you need backup for some reason? Can't go it alone?
Nah, making you look foolish is easy. I just know they’d appreciate these stupid takes.
 
You just sound more idiotic every time you say it. But keep beating that drum.


Nah, making you look foolish is easy. I just know they’d appreciate these stupid takes.
Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.
 
I cant even...

Hey OP if MJ lost 6 finals instead of won 6 finals would he be the GOAT?

lol no
Assuming I'm OP you refer to I would say no. Never mind not what we were discussing.

Since lauer summoned you, I suspect you are one of those who bases his comments on the poster and not the post, meaning if I said the sky was blue and he said green, you would not be allowed to tell him he's wrong, but let's fill you in....

Someone said MJ would have 8 straight Finals had he not played baseball, and I reminded him he played and lost to Orlando, so that might not be so likely.

Your buddy seems to think 18 games is just not enough time for MJ to get ready for the playoffs. I reminded him players get half of that in preseason to get ready for the season. Of course, MJ had 18 real games, while preseason are often half speed, and guys like MJ often sit them out.

edit - To be clear, he actually had 18 regular season games and 4 playoff games to get ready for the Orlando series.

Not enough?
 
He still went 2-2 in the NBA Finals with Wade and Bosh as his teammates.

Let's be real: in 2011 LeBron shat the bed in the NBA Finals (but he murdered MVP Rose and a very good Bulls team the round before, but not the Finals so who cares I guess?). No one really disputes that, and frankly it's weird. But did you watch 2014? You can't have a modicum of basketball intelligence and come away from watching that series saying "but he had 2 All Star teammates" and think you're making a coherent point. You think broken down Shane Battier (retired after season), Wade (worst season of his career to that point, exploitable defense), Chalmers (maybe the 28th best PG in the league), Norris Cole, Ray Allen (39! years old), Chris Anderson (lol), Rashard Lewis (haha no), Beasley, Haslem (token locker room guy), Joel Anthony, and James Jones were a championship team? That team was LeBron and Bosh and every 4th game Wade (except, you know, defense).
 
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@dtgold88 amd @hailtoyourvictor are amazing trolls or ate way too many paint chips as a kid. Either way, this is a lot of fun.
and each has been able to smack you around with logic, facts and reason and didn't have to cry for help.

Agree it's been fun. Even with you offering nothing more than irrational, sports would be boring if we all agreed.
 
Write this down somewhere though.....18 real games to get ready. Double what they get in the preseason to get ready for the season.
Do you realize athletes train in an offseason to prepare for their craft. They don't just SHOW UP at preseason and say, let's go. Jordan trained for baseball. After the 95 season he then spent the entire offseason training for basketball and came back to win 72 regular season games and a championship. You clearly aren't very bright.
 
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Do you realize athletes train in an offseason to prepare for their craft. They don't just SHOW UP at preseason and say, let's go. Jordan trained for baseball. After the 95 season he then spent the entire offseason training for basketball and came back to win 72 regular season games and a championship. You clearly aren't very bright.
So you are thinking never touched a basketball for 2 years? 18 regular season games and 4 playoff games just not enough for MJ to be ready for another series? And you think that's our GOAT?

Pure comedy.
 
His PER states otherwise.

By 0.2. Given the many flaws of PER (I hope you can use Google to find this information, but I'm doubtful), I would be hesitant to rely entirely on that and ignore other stats, but you seem lazy.

MJ with more steals and less turnovers while playing better defense. You dismissing the PER is lame. MJ’s PER was dragged down a bit by coming back the Wizards. At age 33, MJ’s PER was like 4 points higher than LBJ

So not only do you rely heavily (and seemingly exclusively, given the frequency you mention it) on PER, but you think (1) MJ's Wizards seasons dragged down his career PER by 4 (his Bulls' PER was 29.1, not 31.9), and (2) you ignore that MJ had three years in college to develop while LeBron had the worst season of his career coming in straight out of HS (where his PER was worse than any MJ Wizards season). That's not even bad logic; it's a failure to use logic.

Also isn't PER normalized to the league each year, meaning that when the league is worse outliers tend to be more extreme? The mid to late 1990s were unquestionably a down time for the league due to expansion and a series of terrible drafts. Normally it's not a nit I would pick, but when you're hanging your hat on a 0.2 difference maybe it's something you should think about. Thanks, I'll take my answer off the air.
 
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So you are thinking never touched a basketball for 2 years? 18 regular season games and 4 playoff games just not enough for MJ to be ready for another series? And you think that's our GOAT?

Pure comedy.
People like you love to run your mouths about how players today are so much better do to training, sports science, medicine etc etc,. Then when it is pointed out that MJ was playing baseball all of 95 and prior and he had trained his body to be a baseball player that when he switched over to basketball his body was not in the proper conditioning, you act as if it is complete nonsense. Do you realize that the muscle training and conditioning for basketball is way different than how an athlete would train for baseball? If you are incapable of seeing this, then it can be clearly written off as you being a total moron and move on.
 
People like you love to run your mouths about how players today are so much better do to training, sports science, medicine etc etc,. Then when it is pointed out that MJ was playing baseball all of 95 and prior and he had trained his body to be a baseball player that when he switched over to basketball his body was not in the proper conditioning, you act as if it is complete nonsense. Do you realize that the muscle training and conditioning for basketball is way different than how an athlete would train for baseball? If you are incapable of seeing this, then it can be clearly written off as you being a total moron and move on.
He doesn’t. That’s what’s incredible. I was hoping it was a clever troll but he’s just not very smart. He mentions the broken foot year and I point out Broken foot is entirely different than not playing basketball for 2 years. He disagrees. I should stop engaging him because at best, he’s willfully ignorant and at worst, really dumb.
 
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By 0.2. Given the many flaws of PER (I hope you can use Google to find this information, but I'm doubtful), I would be hesitant to rely entirely on that and ignore other stats, but you seem lazy.



So not only do you rely heavily (and seemingly exclusively, given the frequency you mention it) on PER, but you think (1) MJ's Wizards seasons dragged down his career PER by 4 (his Bulls' PER was 29.1, not 31.9), and (2) you ignore that MJ had three years in college to develop while LeBron had the worst season of his career coming in straight out of HS (where his PER was worse than any MJ Wizards season). That's not even bad logic; it's a failure to use logic.

Also isn't PER normalized to the league each year, meaning that when the league is worse outliers tend to be more extreme? The mid to late 1990s were unquestionably a down time for the league due to expansion and a series of terrible drafts. Normally it's not a nit I would pick, but when you're hanging your hat on a 0.2 difference maybe it's something you should think about. Thanks, I'll take my answer off the air.
Someone argued Lebron has better stats. I said they’re comparable and the PER suggest MJ was better.

Playing against college players is not as beneficial as playing against Pro players.
 
People like you love to run your mouths about how players today are so much better do to training, sports science, medicine etc etc,. Then when it is pointed out that MJ was playing baseball all of 95 and prior and he had trained his body to be a baseball player that when he switched over to basketball his body was not in the proper conditioning, you act as if it is complete nonsense. Do you realize that the muscle training and conditioning for basketball is way different than how an athlete would train for baseball? If you are incapable of seeing this, then it can be clearly written off as you being a total moron and move on.
People like me? You mean rational and objective people who can see both sides of a discussion and don't need to call on the cavalry to help me? People who base their comments on the post, and not the poster?

Yep....that's me.

18 games and 4 playoff games and you think that's not enough for the GOAT to get ready.

Would 30 games do it? 50? Or could it be he lost and you just don't want to accept it?
 
He doesn’t. That’s what’s incredible. I was hoping it was a clever troll but he’s just not very smart. He mentions the broken foot year and I point out Broken foot is entirely different than not playing basketball for 2 years. He disagrees. I should stop engaging him because at best, he’s willfully ignorant and at worst, really dumb.
and smacking you around at will with logic, facts and reason.
 
Someone argued Lebron has better stats. I said they’re comparable and the PER suggest MJ was better.

Playing against college players is not as beneficial as playing against Pro players.
Great.....but Lebron's first season was at 19 after playing against HS players. Not 21 after playing against college players. Better call your buddies.
 
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People like me? You mean rational and objective people who can see both sides of a discussion and don't need to call on the cavalry to help me? People who base their comments on the post, and not the poster?

Yep....that's me.

18 games and 4 playoff games and you think that's not enough for the GOAT to get ready.

Would 30 games do it? 50? Or could it be he lost and you just don't want to accept it?
Understood. You are just a moron. Carry on.
 
translation - "I cannot refute anything you said"

deflection is big with the irrational.
Oh there is nothing to refute. You are clueless as to what you are talking about and nothing said will make you any more capable of comprehension. That's why I said carry on.
 
Someone argued Lebron has better stats. I said they’re comparable and the PER suggest MJ was better.

Playing against college players is not as beneficial as playing against Pro players.

You ignore your apparent lack of knowledge of what PER is, its flaws, and how it's calculated. Have a good one, Matt!
 
Oh there is nothing to refute. You are clueless as to what you are talking about and nothing said will make you any more capable of comprehension. That's why I said carry on.
You get we are talking about an opinion, right? Nothing factual.

And you said carry on and the comment above because you cannot refute what I said.

Maybe you need to call for backup, too?
 
Lol. Pathetic.
Ya know someone is in trouble when he has to call for backup. Maybe the backup has backup.

Have to love posters who base their comments on the poster. Not the post.
 
Ya know someone is in trouble when he has to call for backup. Maybe the backup has backup.

Have to love posters who base their comments on the poster. Not the post.
How could they form the opinions based on the poster when they’ve never interacted with you before? They’re literally responding to the content of your posts.
 
How could they form the opinions based on the poster when they’ve never interacted with you before? They’re literally responding to the content of your posts.
Really? They are forming their opinion based on you. Not me. If we were arguing the color of the sky and I said it was blue and you said black, you'd still phone a friend and they'd help you. comical, really

For an internet namecalling toughguy you don't really think things through.
 
Really? They are forming their opinion based on you. Not me. If we were arguing the color of the sky and I said it was blue and you said black, you'd still phone a friend and they'd help you. comical, really

For an internet namecalling toughguy you don't really think things through.
Nope. They are laughing at your stupid takes.
 
Nope. They are laughing at your stupid takes.
You mean my opinions you/they cannot refute with facts? Might as well laugh when there isn't much else they can do

Tell me again how one of the best athletes of that time - a guy you think is the best ever (and I don't necessarily disagree, BTW) - could not possibly get himself conditioned in "only" 18 regular season and 4 playoff games.

This is POTY material.

Got anyone else you can call?
 
You mean my opinions you/they cannot refute with facts? Might as well laugh when there isn't much else they can do

Tell me again how one of the best athletes of that time - a guy you think is the best ever (and I don't necessarily disagree, BTW) - could not possibly get himself conditioned in "only" 18 regular season and 4 playoff games.

This is POTY material.

Got anyone else you can call?
Why are you dying on this hill? He did baseball for 2 years. He was inserted into a bad Bulls team with a lot of different players from the first 3-peat. That’s why it was hard for him comeback and win.

I asked you about Trout and Sherzer. How many pros could quit their sport to peruse another and come back to a new team with no struggles?
 
Why are you dying on this hill? He did baseball for 2 years. He was inserted into a bad Bulls team with a lot of different players from the first 3-peat. That’s why it was hard for him comeback and win.

I asked you about Trout and Sherzer. How many pros could quit their sport to peruse another and come back to a new team with no struggles?
Bad Bulls' team? They were a .500 team with no MJ. You are probably the only one who thinks this Cavs team would win many more than 30 with no Lebron. And of course that bad Bulls team won 55 the previous season.

He probably did have some struggles.....but he had nearly a quarter of a season AND a playoff round. I'd bet my money Trout could step away and be himself after 40 games. Do I know this? Nope. Just my opinion.

But I also know baseball is an entirely different animal than basketball, MJ is at worst the 2nd best player of all time, and would bet he played a ton during his hiatus to stay in shape.
 
Bad Bulls' team? They were a .500 team with no MJ. You are probably the only one who thinks this Cavs team would win many more than 30 with no Lebron. And of course that bad Bulls team won 55 the previous season.

He probably did have some struggles.....but he had nearly a quarter of a season AND a playoff round. I'd bet my money Trout could step away and be himself after 40 games. Do I know this? Nope. Just my opinion.

But I also know baseball is an entirely different animal than basketball, MJ is at worst the 2nd best player of all time, and would bet he played a ton during his hiatus to stay in shape.

1. You think Trout could take 2 years off of baseball to try his hand at being a professional baseball player and come back in 40 games to the same level he was at before? Do you know how athletic conditioning for sports work? Baseball players don’t train the same as basketball players

2. You bet he played a ton of basketball during his hiatus? When was that? He was swinging a bat 500x daily. He was playing close to 200 games when you consider Spring Training and AZ Fall League. He wasn’t doing this as a hobby. He was all in on trying to be a professional baseball player. And even if he did shoot around, who the fvck was he playing with? Minor league baseball players?

3. Jordan actually came back to a struggling Bulls team and lifted them to the playoffs where they were swept by the Magic. Coming back healthy to a new team without having chemistry isn’t easy. Kyrie Irving came back late for a hot Duke team and thew off the chemistry. Jordan spent the offseason getting back into basketball shape and practicing with his new teammates. They went from 55 wins to 72 wins.
 
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