Will Bron END UP the GOAT?

[829305]

While we don't have a crystal ball, the man is still in his prime, and his career is far from over. MJ's career is over right now, if measured by seasons not age. MJ played 15 and didn't make the playoffs, so anything Bron does now is overtime, so to speak. I just don't see how he doesn't end up the GOAT. MJ will be the greatest winner, or champion, or whatever. But, the best to ever touch a basketball? Gotta go Bron.

 

[B-Westy]

Agreed. Night after night he carries his teams. It's unreal some of the stuff he's able to do. He's the best basketball player ever.

 

[uncfan in ky]

 

[JimboBBN]

Nope. He will go down as second best. Might already be.

 

[JL-23]

If it was winner take all for my soul, I'm picking Jordan every time.

Option of Jordan or lebron in a game 7 of the finals, Jordan everytime.

Jordan in his prime > Lebron in his prime.

 

[brooky03]

Statistically, LeBron has not separated from Jordan. That would default the argument to postseason success, no? Longevity shouldn't be a factor in greatness, imo, and Lebron will have had at least as many years with teammates equally as good/great as Jordan had with the Bulls in the 90's.

Through their first 15 seasons, they're equally efficient scorers with similar a/to ratios (Bron with 2 more assists but 1 more TO per game). Blocks are the same despite Jordan playing SG and giving up significant size to LeBron. Bron gets an extra board per game but not as many steals as Jordan.

So you have two guys who are/were, more or less, equally impactful on offense and defense. What would make LeBron the GOAT over Jordan? The fact that he might play 20 seasons to Jordan's 15?

 

[JimboBBN]

Statistically, LeBron has not separated from Jordan. That would default the argument to postseason success, no? Longevity shouldn't be a factor in greatness, imo, and Lebron will have had at least as many years with teammates equally as good/great as Jordan had with the Bulls in the 90's.

Through their first 15 seasons, they're equally efficient scorers with similar a/to ratios (Bron with 2 more assists but 1 more TO per game). Blocks are the same despite Jordan playing SG and giving up significant size to LeBron. Bron gets an extra board per game but not as many steals as Jordan.

So you have two guys who are/were, more or less, equally impactful on offense and defense. What would make LeBron the GOAT over Jordan? The fact that he might play 20 seasons to Jordan's 15?

Good post. Although, I would argue longevity is a factor. At least a small one. The fact that LeBron has been this good for as long as he has is pretty incredible.

 

[WojoRising]

When he hangs it up perception is going to fall one of two ways -

1.) He’ll be remembered better and more legendarily than he is now.

2.) He’ll be remembered lesser than he’s viewed now.

Personally, I think option 2 is where he’ll fall, so no, I don’t think he will. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but the finals losses and the Kyrie shot, Big 3 make it far too easy for lazy people to discredit him. When we can no longer see his greatness live it’ll be even easier.

 

[bkingUK]

Already in same conversation as Wilt , Jordan and debatably Kobe Bryant. Can't match Jordan without 6 titles.

 

[uncfan in ky]

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kobe
4. LeBron
5. Russell

 

[BANGBRO]

Good post. Although, I would argue longevity is a factor. At least a small one. The fact that LeBron has been this good for as long as he has is pretty incredible.

LOL at you putting longevity in Lebrons favor at this point. Get back to me when we Lebron puts up 40+ at the age of 40. You more than likely werent old enough to have seen Jordan in his prime on live tv

 

[bignish]

Already in same conversation as Wilt , Jordan and debatably Kobe Bryant. Can't match Jordan without 6 titles.

Get this shit outta here man. Kobe couldn't hold Bron's jockstrap.

Kobe is the most overrated top 10 player of all time.

Anyone who thinks Kobe can be compared to Kareem, Magic, MJ, Bron or Wilt need to check their facts.

Duncan > Kobe too

 

[npreston]

Nope. He will go down as second best. Might already be.

Man, I swear. You’re always on point. Even if you’re clearly wrong, and in the case you’re not, you’re still right.

Jordan is and will always be the GOAT.

 

[spbc7]

He already is the GOAT

 

[bignish]

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kobe
4. LeBron
5. Russell

Kobe better than Bron, Magic or Kareem?

 

[brooky03]

Good post. Although, I would argue longevity is a factor. At least a small one. The fact that LeBron has been this good for as long as he has is pretty incredible.

Jordan was equally good for an equally long period of time, he just took 4 seasons off. One season was in his prime and probably would have gotten him a 7th ring. And he wasn't slowing down much going into his 3 retirement years.

 

[JL-23]

Had Jordan not retired twice in the 90's, there wouldn't even be an argument.

 

[829305]

Had Jordan not retired twice in the 90's, there wouldn't even be an argument.

Had Bron been tutored by Dean and Phil and had a father, there wouldn't be an argument.There are a lot of ways to play the IF game. Winking

 

[npreston]

Had Jordan not retired twice in the 90's, there wouldn't even be an argument.

Even with his retirements, there still isn’t much of an argument.

 

[JimboBBN]

LOL at you putting longevity in Lebrons favor at this point. Get back to me when we Lebron puts up 40+ at the age of 40. You more than likely werent old enough to have seen Jordan in his prime on live tv

I said its a small factor. I'm on Jordans side.

 

[AWilli6995]

Kobe’s not top 5. It’s Jordan then everyone else. Jordan had that killer mentality, he was obsessed with winning. I will say LeBron is doing some amazing things and after he’s done playing I think he’s solid #2. Getting back to Kobe name one top 10-15 player that would play with him?

 

[829305]

Jordan was equally good for an equally long period of time, he just took 4 seasons off. One season was in his prime and probably would have gotten him a 7th ring. And he wasn't slowing down much going into his 3 retirement years.

Without looking (cause I have this argument with a lot of friends living in Central Illinois and grew up with em through MJ's career), I believe MJ averaged 20-6-4 in his final season and missed the playoffs, not even close to it. So, his 15th season is laughable compared to Bron's 28-9-8, and in the playoffs making a run at his 8th straight Finals.

 

[B-Westy]

Jordan was equally good for an equally long period of time, he just took 4 seasons off. One season was in his prime and probably would have gotten him a 7th ring. And he wasn't slowing down much going into his 3 retirement years.

Too bad being a degenerate gambler forced him to retire. I’m not giving him a pass for that.

 

[JimboBBN]

Get this shit outta here man. Kobe couldn't hold Bron's jockstrap.

Kobe is the most overrated top 10 player of all time.

Anyone who thinks Kobe can be compared to Kareem, Magic, MJ, Bron or Wilt need to check their facts.

Duncan > Kobe too

No way Duncan > Kobe

Agree you can't argue Kobe top five with Jordan and LBJ and Kareen and such, but he is undoubtedly a top 10 player and one of the best to ever lace them up.

 

[JL-23]

Had Bron been tutored by Dean and Phil and had a father, there wouldn't be an argument.There are a lot of ways to play the IF game. Winking

 

[JimboBBN]

Jordan was equally good for an equally long period of time, he just took 4 seasons off. One season was in his prime and probably would have gotten him a 7th ring. And he wasn't slowing down much going into his 3 retirement years.

Sure, I'm with you. I was just arguing it is a small factor in ME determining how great a player is, and I think its a factor in favor of both LBJ and Jordan.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I don't buy the career numbers/titles approach when talking about an athlete near the end of his career and in or past his prime.

He's either the greatest now or he never will be. Another title or 4 won't change that.

The only thing that would change this is if he somehow became better in the coming years which ain't too likely.

 

[brooky03]

Had Bron been tutored by Dean and Phil and had a father, there wouldn't be an argument.There are a lot of ways to play the IF game. Winking

Dean, maybe. Phil, no. Phil wasn't much of a tutor, just good at managing big time talent. The father angle is interesting. I think a lot of great players, across various sports, have had no father figure. One could even argue that the lack of a father figure drove some of those players to greatness.

 

[829305]

Bill Simmons made a funny point on his podcast not too long ago, about how the NBA has buried all evidence of MJ losing in the '95(?) playoffs because God forbid we show Jordan in a state of weakness. He was kidding, but it's true. We only remember MJ's greatness these days, and he was, and still probably is the GOAT, for now.

 

[AWilli6995]

Too bad being a degenerate gambler forced him to retire. I’m not giving him a pass for that.

You don’t have to. Jordan earned the GOAT status back when defenses could mug you from the minute you stepped on the court.

 

[829305]

Dean, maybe. Phil, no. Phil wasn't much of a tutor, just good at managing big time talent. The father angle is interesting. I think a lot of great players, across various sports, have had no father figure. One could even argue that the lack of a father figure drove some of those players to greatness.

I actually mean the coaching aspect, too. Spoelstra has shown he can coach, but man, Bron was coaching himself most of his life, as he currently is.

 

[brooky03]

Without looking (cause I have this argument with a lot of friends living in Central Illinois and grew up with em through MJ's career), I believe MJ averaged 20-6-4 in his final season and missed the playoffs, not even close to it. So, his 15th season is laughable compared to Bron's 28-9-8, and in the playoffs making a run at his 8th straight Finals.

His 15th season was 19 years after his career started and he was 39. His last year before retirement he averaged 29/6/4. Nice try.

 

[829305]

Good post. Although, I would argue longevity is a factor. At least a small one. The fact that LeBron has been this good for as long as he has is pretty incredible.

He played 82 games this year, the first time he ever has played 82, in an era where these guys rest for a hangnail. It's insane. He's still in his prime in year 15. Unheard of, I would have to think.

 

[brooky03]

I actually mean the coaching aspect, too. Spoelstra has shown he can coach, but man, Bron was coaching himself most of his life, as he currently is.

LeBron chose to coach himself most of his career. He likes it that way.

 

[Spacegrass]

Kobe better than Bron, Magic or Kareem?

Yea I would still put Kareem and Magic above Lebron along with Jordan at #1. And maybe Russell? He is at worst tied for #5 with Bird at this point. I don't even know if Kobe makes my top 10? Maybe. Lebron though I think has to win another title or 2 to pass Kareem and Magic in terms of overall resume. He will clearly surpass Bird because of his longevity.

 

[brooky03]

Too bad being a degenerate gambler forced him to retire. I’m not giving him a pass for that.

lol, ok

 

[829305]

His 15th season was 19 years after his career started and he was 39. His last year before retirement he averaged 29/6/4. Nice try.

I said his 15th season. Sorry, we can revisit in 4 years when Bron is the best PF in the league averaging 24-12-6.

Is it Bron's fault that he skipped college, receiving zero tutelage at that time, when the entire world already pegged him as the second coming? MJ was a skinny freshman, and Bron was on the cover of SI. Which career path was easier?

 

[B-Westy]

lol, ok

There's another thing that LeBron beats Jordan at. Being a consummate professional on & off the court.

 

[brooky03]

I said his 15th season. Sorry, we can revisit in 4 years when Bron is the best PF in the league averaging 24-12-6.

Is it Bron's fault that he skipped college, receiving zero tutelage at that time, when the entire world already pegged him as the second coming? MJ was a skinny freshman, and Bron was on the cover of SI. Which career path was easier?

You can't compare 15th season to 15th season, dummy. It doesn't work like that when one guy retired and came back.

 

[829305]

There's another thing that LeBron beats Jordan at. Being a consummate professional on & off the court.

See, this is where the argument is LeBron hands down, but I say we stick to the court. "Republicans buy shoes, too" is too tough to swallow for many. And, rightfully so, imho.

 

[829305]

You can't compare 15th season to 15th season, dummy. It doesn't work like that when one guy retired and came back.

Wish LeBron had all that rest. We'd think Brady retired early, whenever that day comes. Winking