He never actually played for Knight. His freshman season was the season Knight got fired. Its possible he might have wanted to leave after seeing Davis as his coach. But, not saying you're wrong because I honestly don't remember it, but I would be shocked if he was seriously wanting to leave after his freshman season. He was from Bloomington and his family were major fans of IU. but, if Davis was your coach....I couldn't say I'd have blamed him for leaving.
Tell me how Indiana basketball plays out if Bobby Knight isnt fired
- Thread starter superhusker33
- Start date
Not sure I understand what your saying....are you saying that if Knight was the coach he would have just been basically a 6th man on that team? Because if you are, you're completely incorrect! Jefferies was head and shoulders better than everyone else on that team....and by a decent margin imo.
Huh? TT has 16 total NCAAT appearances. Knight is responsible for 4 of them. Done so in 6 seasons. In comparison, Gerald Meyers, Ttechs all-time winningest coach(326 wins), took TT to 4 NCAAT.......In 20 years. KNights the 2nd winningest coach in TT history(186). He did so in 6 seasons. James Dickey was there for 10 seasons. Won 166 games. Two NCAAT.
I mean that's not mind boggling. But considering the programs history, it's impressive.
Especially considering that was also when everyone was saying he was washed up as a coach....its very impressive imo
What they did (or didn't do) before he got there is irrelevant. The fact remains that he produced mediocre results at TTU.
No, him not winning gave IU the "excuse" they needed. The antics had been there since Day one. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be fired. BUT...you don't turn the other way for 29 years, then suddenly place a "zero tolerance" label on him. Indiana took the chicken shit way out. And suffered for it.
Ok, man. Why be so obtuse? I mean of course its relevant what they did or didn't do(before he got there). How else would you rate a coach? He produce mediocre resutls in comparison to his career at Indiana---Absolutely. But what he done at TT, in comparison tho their history, isn't even clse to mediocre.
You have to be trolling. Have to be. Why else would you make a statement as ignorant as, "what they did(or didn't do) before he got there is irrelevant". I mean....of course it is.
Knight won 138 games in 6.5 seasons. 186 over 6 is 31 wins a year. Also, he inherited Andre Emmett. I think he once said he was the best coached player he ever had? Something like that. I don’t think he recruited him but I could be wrong. That guy was a first team Big 12 player like 3 seasons. Having a guy like that for 4 certainly helps you get to the tournament.
Yeah, I mistyped his wins. He averaged 21 wins a year. Not sure if Knight inherited Emmett or not. But he played under Knight for four seasons. Averaged 7ppg as a frosh. 21 as a senior. He also coached All-Big 12(and recruited) Ronald Ross and Jarius Jackson. Yeah having a guy like Emmett helps. But its not as if he had a ton of "Emmetts" on his team.
He did a tremendous job at TT.
I looked it up. 3 years under Knight. Played for Dickey in 2001. Average 7. Sophomore year with Knight jumped to 18 PPG. 1st team big 12.
I'm not sure about any of his players at TT, so I can't hp you there. But, I find it very hard to believe he thought a player at TT was one of the best players he's had. The only way I could see him saying it was to take a dig at IU because he is a vindictive bastard.
Actually, now that I think about it, that's exactly something he would have said during the first few years after iu. He took great pleasure anytime he could take a shot at IU and his accomplishments at iu back then.
I did too. Emmetts profile says he played four year under Knight. Looked THAT up, and it shows Dickey as the HC in 2000-01. Either way....kid improve immensely under Knight.
It would have been handed to Pat Knight similarly to how he left T Tech. IU would've floundered for years afraid to fire him for fear of the backlash. They finally do fire him in 2008 and it becomes a circus while they both boycott the university.
Stevens is hired and goes to back to back title games. Hayward makes the half court shot and there isn't a single thread about whether or not IU is a blue blood. The end.
There, I wrote your story.
Stevens is hired and goes to back to back title games. Hayward makes the half court shot and there isn't a single thread about whether or not IU is a blue blood. The end.
There, I wrote your story.
Could’ve been a shot at IU but Emmett was one of the best players of that decade. He averaged 18, 20 and 21 over his last 3 seasons. I think he won POTY in the Big 12 and was a first team All American. The guy was no slouch and definitely ranks up there as one of Knights best players ever. Not sure how high but he’s up there.
It's not being obtuse at all. Why is their prior history relevant? Even Tubby Smith took them to a dance in 3 years and he can't coach or recruit to save his life. It's about the coach, not the program. Billy freakin' Gillispie masterminded the two biggest turnarounds in college basketball history in back-to-back years for two different schools that were just as lackluster as TTU prior to that (save for a certain 1966 national title we won't talk about). That's way more impressive than anything Knight did at TTU and I certainly wouldn't consider Gillispie to be in the same stratosphere of coaching.
One of the best ever, but stayed too long. Dean knew when to leave, a real shame Knight didn't.
He seemed to live by the "do as I say, not as I do" way.
He was asked something about Coach K when Duke was about to hire him, to which he said something like "He has all my good qualities but none of my bad."
He could coach but was absolutely pathetic as a tv commentator.
He seemed to live by the "do as I say, not as I do" way.
He was asked something about Coach K when Duke was about to hire him, to which he said something like "He has all my good qualities but none of my bad."
He could coach but was absolutely pathetic as a tv commentator.
Forgive me, but I'm not understanding what the difference is? Was it basically the kid had the best basketball IQ because he was so well coached?
No matter what its supposed to mean...I have a hard time believing a kid at tt was better then every other player he had....in any category. I believe you all that he said it....I'm not doubting you all....I'm doubting his sincerity when he said it.
I guess I'm just having a stupid moment because I can't imagine he was a better player than Isaiah Thomas. Or, had a higher basketball IQ then the Quinn Buckners and Michael Lewis's of the world. Basketball IQ would be a direct cause being well coached.
I'm really not trying to be argumentative here....it might just me not grasping what "best coached player " exactly means.
I don’t recall the exact quote but it was definitely something along the lines of “one of my best” ever. Emmett bought in to his philosophy immediately and was an elite player throughout his career under Knight. He scored 2000 points in 3 seasons. He deserved the praise but, yeah, he wasn’t better than Isaiah. Still one of Knights best though.
I tell you what, he would have picked Alford. It would have been interesting. I personally think Alford sucks as a coach, but coach upon coach, he probably could have helped Alford at IU.
My thing, takes your lumps Indiana and get out from under the Knight shadow.
Indiana needs to start winning and winning now. They are turning into Minnesota football of the 70s.
My thing, takes your lumps Indiana and get out from under the Knight shadow.
Indiana needs to start winning and winning now. They are turning into Minnesota football of the 70s.
If prior history isn't relevant---then why do coaches gets fired? I mean are you telling me the coach who follows Cal, won't have to wrry about what Cal has done?
SMith has won almost 70% of his games. Has 597 wins. But can't coach?
BCG, for all his miracle work---has exactly two NCAAT wins. ANd he's not a bad coach. He just can't control his drinking.
We will just agree, to disagree. Knight is responsible for 1/4 of TT NCAAT appearances. He did that in 6 years; 4 NCAAT/NIT. Won 21 games a year at a school that had won 20 more games, ONCE the previous 20 seasons. Once. He did that 5 times in 6 years. What he did at TT was impressive.
BTW---When the next coach who follows Cal is struggling---I don't wanna hear any comparisons from you, about the "Cal era". After all, (previous)program history is irrelevant when evaluating coaches.Winking
Incorrect....he would have done the exact same thing he did at TT....pave the way for his son to be the coach. With how bad of a coach Pat was....in all honesty, it would have all ended up happening the exact same way. When IU ended up firing his son he would have ended up turning on the school anyways. I can't imagine, with a personality like his, there would have ever been a situation where he was okay with IU firing his son.
Alford coming off the 02 BIG tourney title and getting to the second round vs UK with one of your best players hurt, would have been a good time to pass it to Steve.
Here's the quote:
"He's
the most talented player I've had-which includes
Olympic players and Pan-Am players and everybody
else-who is not a good basketball player."
I knew he had said something alond these lines.
Pretty much. But mostly just you. Its an asinine statement. So rather he is trolling, or is stupid. I don't think Kevin is stupid.
ANd before we go any further----You win.
A few more wins and I’ll surpass Indiana’s basketball win total from last year.
Might as well go for it. Anyways...your shtick has grown old. Have a good night.
So now you're trying to change the argument to the most prestigious programs and coaching expectations? Obviously that's a different animal. But we are discussing the bottom of the barrel programs where there is no pressure or expectation. Just because they sucked historically doesn't mean much of anything. Gillispie went to 3 NCAAT in 5 years combined with UTEP and A&M, winning 3 games (not 2). Knight took TTU to 4 tournaments in 7 years with a grand total of *drumroll please*.... 3 wins. But anyway, the point was Gillispie took a garbage program from 6-24 to 24-8 and the NCAAT in one season. The very next season he took another garbage 7-21 team to 21-10 barely missing the NCAAT and making it the following 2 years, including a Sweet 16 appearance. You're basically hyping Knight as a miracle worker at TTU when what Gillispie did was much more impressive and he's half the coach.
Thanks..... I think. Me trolling below...
Change the argument? Wait, what? SO we only consider the history of elite, prestigious programs , when evaluating the accomplishments of a coach? Sooooo...does that mean what Cal did at Umass and Memphis isn't /wasn't nothing special? I mean every time someone quesstions his coaching ability---some of you point out ---"Look what he done at UMass/Memphis". I mean unless of course you consider those two school, "most prestigious"? Anyways...Knight won 21 games a year for over 6 years; NOT 7. He retired with TT 12-7 in year 7. Knight had the same amount of20 win seasons(5) in his 6 years, then the entire program had combined since 1970.
BCG was a flash in the pan. Not a bad coach. Nothing special though. Caught some lightening in a bottle, and ran with it. That happens sometimes; See Kevin Ollie.
Anyways...Agree to disagree. Have a good nbight, Kevin.
Oh, I'm not saying that there wouldn't have been huge support within the fanbase for Alford then. Hell, there actually was, but they couldn't move on from the coach who just took them to the championship game the prior year. But, I just cant see Knight not wanting his son to be given the job. If Pat wasn't an option, then I'd say you're correct, but not with his son being there also.
