Schools Most Overdue For a Final Four

[dragonhawk1855]

Exactly. It’s not that they’re white, it’s that they just aren’t elite Final Four level players. Gordon Hayward and Kyle Singler are. Jordan Bohannon and Garza are good players surely, but with Fran at the helm and the rest of that team, they aren’t going to a Final Four.

then why was Iowa a 3 seed in one bracket and 4 seed in a couple others before it was put out that Jordan was going to be out for the season and now they are anywhere from as high as a 10 seed to as low as the 2nd four out.

Jordan had that big of a affect on this team. Jordan was a 3rd Team All BT while as a SO Garza was a HM All BT.

Wieskamp is a Preseason All BT Teamer..
but you keep ignoring the absolute fact that this years team has these ranked players by ESPN
4* grade 80 4* FR PG Toussaint
4* top 100 RSSO CG Connor
4* top 100 SO SF/WG Wieskamp
4* top 100 FR F Patrick
4 * top 100 JR Center Garza
may or may not play
4* SR or RSSR PG Jordan

gee 4 top 100 players at different position and 2 4* and they aren't good enough to win? RollLaughRollLaughRollLaugh tell me another story.

 

[MGC_07]

then why was Iowa a 3 seed in one bracket and 4 seed in a couple others before it was put out that Jordan was going to be out for the season and now they are anywhere from as high as a 10 seed to as low as the 2nd four out.

Jordan had that big of a affect on this team. Jordan was a 3rd Team All BT while as a SO Garza was a HM All BT.

Wieskamp is a Preseason All BT Teamer..
but you keep ignoring the absolute fact that this years team has these ranked players by ESPN
4* grade 80 4* FR PG Toussaint
4* top 100 RSSO CG Connor
4* top 100 SO SF/WG Wieskamp
4* top 100 FR F Patrick
4 * top 100 JR Center Garza
may or may not play
4* SR or RSSR PG Jordan

gee 4 top 100 players at different position and 2 4* and they aren't good enough to win? RollLaughRollLaughRollLaugh tell me another story.

Again, with a healthy Bohannon, Iowa would be a solid team. Not elite, but top 25 realm. They are good enough to win some games. I would say they would have a less than 1% chance to win it all. Jordan Bohannon is a good college PG. Garza is a good college C. Final Four caliber? No

 

[dragonhawk1855]

Again, with a healthy Bohannon, Iowa would be a solid team. Not elite, but top 25 realm. They are good enough to win some games. I would say they would have a less than 1% chance to win it all. Jordan Bohannon is a good college PG. Garza is a good college C. Final Four caliber? No

like Kamiski was FF calibur or what about the players on WSU of the MVC or Loyola of Chicago from the MVC? hmmm looks like your hatred for Fran blinds you to what it takes to make a FF.

 

[Jaycg15]

Holtmann is doing work. Seriously. The team he inherited was barely above .500 in 2017. He lost 3 starters from that team. Comes in the first year and they're a top 20 team - KBD is a superstar and earns All-American honors. Second year he loses 3 starters again. Only brings in 1 top 100 kid and still manages a 2nd round game. Once he has continuity + talent his program is going to wreak havoc. I see them as the #3 Big Ten team right now behind MSU and Maryland. If they get enough guys to stick around for another year, they might be the favorites to win the BT in 2021 - and probable top 10 team.

I wouldn't put it past him to coach circles around Turgeon and finish second.

 

[IUfanBorden]

like Kamiski was FF calibur or what about the players on WSU of the MVC or Loyola of Chicago from the MVC? hmmm looks like your hatred for Fran blinds you to what it takes to make a FF.

There is absolutely no ****in way you are this stupid.

 

[dragonhawk1855]

There is absolutely no ****in way you are this stupid.

Kaminski was a unranked 3* by Rivals and top 100 4* by ESPN
Garza was a 4* by Rivals and a top 100 4* by ESPN,
and yet his team went to the FF.


HMMM looks like Garza is good enough to take this team to the FF,

Both shoot the 3 the Washington DC Post sports writer said that Garza was better than Kaminski coming out of HS,
Kaminski's offers were
Wisconsin
NW
Depaul
Bradley
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
and that's it

Garza chose Iowa over Georgetown. Louiville, Indiana [Crean offered him],
here were the rest of his top offers
Alabama
Depaul
George Washington
Georgia
Navy
Nebraska
NW
ND
Pitt
South Carolina
UCF
Virginia Tech
plus multiple offers from the East Coast teams.

if you judge a player by how many and who offers. Garza is/was clearly the better player

it looks like your hatred has truly made you stupid in reguards to who are the better players, also Frank didn't do much till his JR season, Garza is just entering his JR season.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Kaminski was a unranked 3* by Rivals and top 100 4* by ESPN
Garza was a 4* by Rivals and a top 100 4* by ESPN,
and yet his team went to the FF.


HMMM looks like Garza is good enough to take this team to the FF,

Both shoot the 3 the Washington DC Post sports writer said that Garza was better than Kaminski coming out of HS,
Kaminski's offers were
Wisconsin
NW
Depaul
Bradley
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
and that's it

Garza chose Iowa over Georgetown. Louiville, Indiana [Crean offered him],
here were the rest of his top offers
Alabama
Depaul
George Washington
Georgia
Navy
Nebraska
NW
ND
Pitt
South Carolina
UCF
Virginia Tech
plus multiple offers from the East Coast teams.

if you judge a player by how many and who offers. Garza is/was clearly the better player

it looks like your hatred has truly made you stupid in reguards to who are the better players, also Frank didn't do much till his JR season, Garza is just entering his JR season.

As my grand-pappy used to say---"It is better to be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt".

 

[dragonhawk1855]

As my grand-pappy used to say---"It is better to be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt".

sounds like he was giving the advice to heed and here you are ignoring his advice. looking more and more the fool.

 

[IUfanBorden]

sounds like he was giving the advice to heed and here you are ignoring his advice. looking more and more the fool.

Probably so...

 

[IUfanBorden]

Kaminski was a unranked 3* by Rivals and top 100 4* by ESPN
Garza was a 4* by Rivals and a top 100 4* by ESPN,
and yet his team went to the FF.


HMMM looks like Garza is good enough to take this team to the FF.

if you judge a player by how many and who offers. Garza is/was clearly the better player

Ok.....First off---You do realize Wisconsin went to the FF both Franks' junior and senior year---right? I am sure you also realize that Frank had a supporting cast of guys like.....Same Dekker, Nigel Hayes(Big 10 FOY), Josh Gasser, Traveon Jackson....For both of those years. Kaminsky was 1st All Big 10...POY as a Senior..Dekker was 2nd team, both years...Hayes was 3rd team...FOY in 2014. Gasser made the All-defensive team(2015). They also had Koenig----A 4* Top 80 kid, for both years.

Does Garza have that, this coming year? Do you see Garza making the same leap Kaminsky made? If so, does Iowa have the same supporting cast that Kaminsky had? In other words, are there any dudes currently 1st or 2nd team All Big 10, material? Top 20 NBA draft pick material? All defensive material? FOY material?

If so, then my apologies.

 

[dragonhawk1855]

Ok.....First off---You do realize Wisconsin went to the FF both Franks' junior and senior year---right? I am sure you also realize that Frank had a supporting cast of guys like.....Same Dekker, Nigel Hayes(Big 10 FOY), Josh Gasser, Traveon Jackson....For both of those years. Kaminsky was 1st All Big 10...POY as a Senior..Dekker was 2nd team, both years...Hayes was 3rd team...FOY in 2014. Gasser made the All-defensive team(2015). They also had Koenig----A 4* Top 80 kid, for both years.

Does Garza have that, this coming year? Do you see Garza making the same leap Kaminsky made? If so, does Iowa have the same supporting cast that Kaminsky had? In other words, are there any dudes currently 1st or 2nd team All Big 10, material? Top 20 NBA draft pick material? All defensive material? FOY material?

If so, then my apologies.

Fran has 4* #42 by Rivals 4* by ESPN Wieskamp All BT FR team preseason All BT Team
Fran has Patrick #75 by Rivals #64 by ESPN
pretty close looking at it like this
4* RSSO CG Connor by Rivals and 4* top 100 by ESPN
4* FR PG by ESPN Toussaint

the only SR's that will play for certain are 6'9 Kriener and 6'2 Evelyn

if Jordan can play he was the 3rd Team All BT player.

like it or not Nunge is a RSSO who was a 2 time 1st Team All Staters and the runnerup in the Mr. Indiana BB who is now all grown up so we get to see if he was good enough to be a 2 time 1st team all State in Indiana playing on the largest state classification 4A and that runner up in the Mr. Indiana BB voting.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Fran has 4* #42 by Rivals 4* by ESPN Wieskamp All BT FR team preseason All BT Team
Fran has Patrick #75 by Rivals #64 by ESPN
pretty close looking at it like this
4* RSSO CG Connor by Rivals and 4* top 100 by ESPN
4* FR PG by ESPN Toussaint

the only SR's that will play for certain are 6'9 Kriener and 6'2 Evelyn

if Jordan can play he was the 3rd Team All BT player.

like it or not Nunge is a RSSO who was a 2 time 1st Team All Staters and the runnerup in the Mr. Indiana BB who is now all grown up so we get to see if he was good enough to be a 2 time 1st team all State in Indiana playing on the largest state classification 4A and that runner up in the Mr. Indiana BB voting.

So in short----YOur answer is "no"?Laughing

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Not to derail the thread but AZ and IU kind of stand out for me. View them both as high end programs 17 and 18 years that's almost the spank bank age.

 

[dragonhawk1855]

So in short----YOur answer is "no"?Laughing

yes he does, only brain dead posters like you and DD keep trying to tell people,

 

[IUfanBorden]

yes he does, only brain dead posters like you and DD keep trying to tell people,

So Fran has the talent to go to the FF? That's what you are saying?

 

[dragonhawk1855]

So Fran has the talent to go to the FF? That's what you are saying?

Fran has more talent than these that reached the FF
Witchta State when they were in the MVC
Loyola of Chicago another MVC team.

didn't realize that either of those teams had Elite talent.

imagine that MVC team out recruiting BT Teams including Indiana, also how did all those ELITE Players work out for Indiana, especially that last 5* 1 n done player

oh that's right that 5* 1 n done led Indiana to a 8-12 BT record, so much for that ELITE Talent that you claim teams need to reach the FF.

 

[schoonerwest]

Fran has more talent than these that reached the FF
Witchta State when they were in the MVC
Loyola of Chicago another MVC team.

didn't realize that either of those teams had Elite talent.

imagine that MVC team out recruiting BT Teams including Indiana, also how did all those ELITE Players work out for Indiana, especially that last 5* 1 n done player

oh that's right that 5* 1 n done led Indiana to a 8-12 BT record, so much for that ELITE Talent that you claim teams need to reach the FF.

Wichita State had some pretty good talent on those teams. Loyola of Chicago caught lightning in a bottle. You seem to think that people are saying it’s impossible for Iowa to make a Final Four. Nobody is saying that. They’re saying they aren’t likely a Final Four team. Maybe 10-12 teams will fit that description any given year. Iowa is not one of those teams.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Fran has more talent than these that reached the FF
Witchta State when they were in the MVC
Loyola of Chicago another MVC team.

didn't realize that either of those teams had Elite talent.

imagine that MVC team out recruiting BT Teams including Indiana, also how did all those ELITE Players work out for Indiana, especially that last 5* 1 n done player

oh that's right that 5* 1 n done led Indiana to a 8-12 BT record, so much for that ELITE Talent that you claim teams need to reach the FF.

I feel like I am arguing with a 7 year old. You do understand that a team like Loyola is what we call an "outlier", right? If you don't, go back, and look at all the FF's from the past 10 seasons. Count how many "Loyola's" you see. Then---count how many Dukes, Kentucky's, UNC's, Kansas, Michigan's, Lousiville's, etc, etc... you see. Get back to me, and tell me who had the more FF's: Teams with elite talent(Or A Elite player), opposed to a team like Loyola.

Basically what you are saying is----If Loyola can make it---Iowa can. Sure, I get that. Heck anybody can get hot, get a favorable draw, etc, etc...and find themselves in a FF, i.e. Loyola. BUt what you are missing Gil, is teams like Loyola are an anomaly. In other words---they're not the norm. Teams such as them aren't making the FF on a regular basis. C'mon, dude. You have to understand that.

Right?

As for WSU, and their FF team? They had some dudes, brother. Cleanthony Early. He was a JUCO All-American, who was recruited by major conference schools. He settled with WSU. He was newcomer of the Year for the MVC. He was a 2nd round NBA pick. Also some dude named VanVleet. Plays for the Raptors. Also had another JUCO stud in Nick Wiggins. Tekele Cotton could play...Ron Baker got hot as hell. Great run.

BTW,any idea what happened to powerhouse WSU the following year?

Its crazy. You use once in a lifetime FF runs to support Iowa being able to go to the FF. Well, I mean, when you haven't been in 40 years---I guess I see why.

 

[dragonhawk1855]

I feel like I am arguing with a 7 year old. You do understand that a team like Loyola is what we call an "outlier", right? If you don't, go back, and look at all the FF's from the past 10 seasons. Count how many "Loyola's" you see. Then---count how many Dukes, Kentucky's, UNC's, Kansas, Michigan's, Lousiville's, etc, etc... you see. Get back to me, and tell me who had the more FF's: Teams with elite talent(Or A Elite player), opposed to a team like Loyola.

Basically what you are saying is----If Loyola can make it---Iowa can. Sure, I get that. Heck anybody can get hot, get a favorable draw, etc, etc...and find themselves in a FF, i.e. Loyola. BUt what you are missing Gil, is teams like Loyola are an anomaly. In other words---they're not the norm. Teams such as them aren't making the FF on a regular basis. C'mon, dude. You have to understand that.

Right?

As for WSU, and their FF team? They had some dudes, brother. Cleanthony Early. He was a JUCO All-American, who was recruited by major conference schools. He settled with WSU. He was newcomer of the Year for the MVC. He was a 2nd round NBA pick. Also some dude named VanVleet. Plays for the Raptors. Also had another JUCO stud in Nick Wiggins. Tekele Cotton could play...Ron Baker got hot as hell. Great run.

BTW,any idea what happened to powerhouse WSU the following year?

Its crazy. You use once in a lifetime FF runs to support Iowa being able to go to the FF. Well, I mean, when you haven't been in 40 years---I guess I see why.

Most claim that Bielien of Michigan went to those FF's W/O Elite talent

just what do you classify as Elite talent knowing the Kam was a UNRANKED 3* by Rivals and a top 100 4* by ESPN. yet here you are saying that he was ELITE.

NOW you are talking like a hypocrite by saying that Garza a 4* by Rivals and a top 100 4* by ESPN, can't be ELITE. HMMM I am confused on what you determine as Elite.

to big a hypocrite for my tastes.

this is done as I don't deal with Hypocrites so bye bye

 

[IUfanBorden]

Most claim that Bielien of Michigan went to those FF's W/O Elite talent

Well, ummmm, I'd say Beilein is just a tad better of a coach than ole' Fran. BTW, JB had Elite talent. Some dude by the name of Trey Burke...NPOY....BPOY...Consensus AA..9th pick in the NBA draft...Tim Hardaway, Jr....1st round, 24th overall pick....Glenn Robinson III...5*...2nd round NBA.

2017-18 team has Mortez Wagner---1st round pick(25th)..Jordan Poole(28th pick)....Charles Matthews(5*)....

Give Beilein, Frans boys, and he'd take Iowa to the FF.

 

[buckymel]

Give Beilein, Frans boys, and he'd take Iowa to the FF.

Now you are exaggerating. Which Francis' team could Beilein have taken to the FF?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Now you are exaggerating. Which Francis' team could Beilein have taken to the FF?

TBH, I think last years Iowa team. They had some players...shooters. Type of team that JB beats up on ya with. Dudes like Bohannon and Cook, under JB, IMO, would be monsters.

Also, it was more of a stab at Gil and Iowa.

 

[VulvHa]

TBH, I think last years Iowa team. They had some players...shooters. Type of team that JB beats up on ya with. Dudes like Bohannon and Cook, under JB, IMO, would be monsters.

Also, it was more of a stab at Gil and Iowa.

Much more of the latter me thinks

 

[dragonhawk1855]

Now you are exaggerating. Which Francis' team could Beilein have taken to the FF?

the problem in the past was because of the constant unbalanced classes
when Gesell, Woodbury and Uthoff were SR's and reached as high as #3 they had these as backups
1 SO 1 RSSO and 6 FR of which only one graduated, the most heralded of the group was from Oak Hill Academy who transferred there after being name Tennessee Mr. BB as a SO and JR. he stayed one year got home sick and transferred to a College closer to home.

now if that seasons team makeup had been broken down to a more manageable class experience level. but the SR's got worn down because of very little relief, Moss was also a member of that team but he RS'd.
then the next season started these
RSFR Moss
FR Jordan
FR Cook
FR Pemsl
SR Jok
they went 10-8 finishing in a tie for 5th yet ended up in the NIT
then the next season when they went 4-14 these were the starters
SO Jordan
RSSO Moss
SO Cook
FR Garza
FR Nunge

projected starter RSJR Baer broke a bone on his shooting hand that required surgery and missed the 1st 6 games
these were the top 5 scorers, with SO Pemsl who was T-5th. rotated with Nunge,

now these players in the following season went 10-10 finishing in 6th and reached the NCAAT as a 10 seed, upsetting #7 seed Cincinnati then losing to the #2 seed Tennessee in OT in the 2nd round.

this season Fran has
3 SR's [including Jordan]
3 JR's
3 SO's
3 FR
1 open scholly.
now that is a much better looking roster make up.