Place to put my Nonsense Thread.
- Thread starter lurkeraspect84
- Start date
Lurk, she was the best lady. Our most favorite thing to bond over was Kentucky basketball. Since she passed in the fall of 2018, I keep her picture next to me for some of the games. Usually the first game of the year, and some of the bigger ones like Louisville or Kansas. I wouldn't be a UK fan without her.
Sounds brutal, Jimbo. I do wonder how I'll feel when inevitably my parents pass away. Maybe that will change my perspective? Sucks you have to watch her suffer through something like that. And I hope you do get to see her again. I really do.
I can't answer with authority, but I've never felt like God was intentionally smacking us with serious issues, such as a chronic illness, just for the hell of it. I think he merely permits these sufferings, knowing that our bodies decay over time. He knows there's a heckuva lot of trials we'll all have to endure, and most of those challenges will occur naturally. It's not him imposing harsh things on us, so much as it is him simply not intervening. Free will and eternal development would be stifled if we wished or prayed away all of our problems. Can God prevent those tragedies? Yes, I believe so. Though, I tend to think that happens only on rare occasions. Christ being sparred, having his stepfather inspired, through a dream, to take the small family to Egypt to avoid the baby massacre was a darn good reason to have an intervention.
Belief by itself is futile. That's why I said previously that death bed repentance isn't a real thing. Paul says that faith without works is dead. Gaining knowledge, or truth, and becoming more Christlike are two aspects of a single process. Hitler's words would obviously mean nothing.
Paul described knowledge without application as becoming, “as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)” When I read that verse, I imagine a marching band, and you hear the ring of one of those tiny triangle cymbals (ding). It's an annoyingly high-pitched sound. In the spiritual sense, that's what our voice sounds like when we believe something, but our actions don't match our words. Our voices should resonate and should reach others, like a trumpet. Not a triangular cymbal.
Jesus himself said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven (Mat 7:21)." Belief is not enough. Another scripture says it this way: "The just shall live by faith." Faith is a principal of action. It's not lip service.
As far as different eternal destinations, I couldn't possibly sort through all of that. It would be an impossible task. But read through Corinthians and you'll find that it's not simply a matter of heaven and hell. Paul is speaking about the resurrection throughout Corinthians 15. "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead." From these verses, it's apparent that there are different degrees of salvation. And that idea is amplified when you consider the "third heaven" that Paul also cities in 2 Cor 12:2. Heaven and hell, with no where in between, is a commonly held belief by many - but it is a false belief. So yes, there would be a middle ground for those that are mostly good people, but perhaps not committed to following Christ.
And I as mentioned previously, the teaching of the Gospel is taught to those who were never able to fully receive it. Revelation 20 indicates that the period of time is for roughly 1,000 years. I suppose when you're waiting for the resurrection and you don't have a body, it takes a heck of a lot longer to truly repent of bad habits. Perhaps it takes many close to a 1,000 years before their mind and body could be reconciled to a state of true repentance?
I can appreciate the fact that there are many reasons to be discouraged. Many reasons to doubt. Nothing is abundantly clear. Just feel like people are really starving for truth - and for meaning in their life. Especially young people that are fed the lies of relativism, that no belief system is superior to any other. These people are starving for meaning and purpose in their life. There are so many people that are working all day long, and doing something that is deeply unsatisfying. Soul Killing. You're stuck in traffic. Doing a never-ending cycle of chores. Watching television is the highlight of the day. Or maybe having a bowl of ice cream? And the cycle continues. You feel stuck. No hope, no light at the end of the tunnel. Are people better off without God? Are people happier? Is their mental health better? Absolutely not.
People are starving for truths. I believe that’s because we are fundamentally designed to be religious. If we do not seek it through Christ himself, we’ll seek some other form of religious worship. Sports. Books. Movies. Music. Science/Secularism. And while all of those things can be great and wonderful, they are missing something. They are missing the pinnacle of ultimate truth. Some of the brilliant minds in the scientific community learn a great deal about the physical characteristics of this planet earth, but yet may be ignorant, completely ignorant, of why it was created in the first place. It reminds me of the scripture in Timothy, “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (2 Timothy 3:7)
I'm all for pursuing truth in whatever capacity you can. I love to learn new things. I just find when I study the gospel it just seems to speak to me in a way that no other form of secularism ever could. The voice inside screams, "Yes! Yes! That's true. And I know it's true!"
That part is pretty simple. You can't tithe as easily if you're not in church. Or at least in older times you couldn't.
If the person you worship is omnipotent he clearly would know when you're showing your faith like you said.
Good point. Especially the tithing part.
I know this, the closer I get to death, the more I want to live. My folks are 88 and 87, hopefully old age runs in my family.
Absolutely part of it. Which is fine. If a belief in the afterlife helps you be a better person, good.
That is part of the reason some people cling to religion. I think it was in my original post that the idea of you just ceasing to exist is a very scary thing. Believing in the afterlife also helps some get through grief. Not wanting to die is one of the most human traits. Look back through history and see how many people tried things to live longer. How prevalent immortality is in mediums be it shows or games. I assume the less time you have (age wise) the worse that angst gets.
I had forgotten that song, haven't heard it many years, if not decades. 🤣
"Maybe" he is the Angel that God kicked out of Heaven. LOL
Humans crave justice and a sense of fairness. Hell is the assurance that people who do terrible things will not escape punishment. Fear is also an effective motivator. The Catholic Church capitalized on fear as much as anything else to enrich itself and carve out power. If you trust that your religious leaders are spreading the word of god and they make you fear the consequences of going against their (God’s) teachings, you are likely to comply with their will.
Yes, I understand this. But, religion has been around for much longer than the Catholic Church. Religion existed in small, primitive communities and tribes. Just look at Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, etc. If you're inventing something, why would you include the possibility of the worst possible outcome? I would assume most would prefer eternal annihilation over hell. The cost to benefit ratio doesn't check out.
Humans craving justice and fairness has been around as long/longer. Hell is eternal justice.
Religion is just parenting on steroids. You’re just governing human behavior like a mom governs her toddler. You do that with a mix of rewards and consequences. Heaven is the reward. Hell is the consequence.
If you’re selling the idea of heaven to somebody and they ask if the guy who raped their daughter and stole their goat goes to heaven, you’re not going to win them over by saying, “yeah, everybody gets in.”
If you’re selling the idea of heaven to somebody and they ask if the guy who raped their daughter and stole their goat goes to heaven, you’re not going to win them over by saying, “yeah, everybody gets in.”
Could just as easily serve them punishment. Or excommunicate them. Or kill them, as it wouldn't be terribly difficult to execute without recourse.
Just think people are selling religion short when they quickly dismiss something that has outlasted political movements and nations. Lies have speed. Truth has endurance.
They're classified as a a 501 c 3, just like all of the rest of the non-profit organizations. Should we tax non-profit organizations just the same?
The money collected has all been donated. Paid clergymen have to pay taxes on their salary. You do realize that, right? The only thing that isn't taxed are what's used for overhead, supplies and activities. So, pretty much a non-profit in that sense.
I was told these were truths when I was a child...
- Don't go swimming until a half hour after you eat. (origins of that myth came from the 1908 Boy Scout Handbook)
-Gum takes 7 years to Digest
-If you cross your eyes for too long, they'll be stuck in that condition.
-Don't pop your knuckles; you'll get arthritis
-Staring too close to the TV will make you go blind: staring at the same thing for a long period of time can cause the eye muscles to fatigue, thereby affecting vision.
No basis for any of that. I get the point of your idea, though. Once something has been said often enough it becomes almost impossible to eradicate. Still, my basic point, is people are quick to dismiss religion without doing a serious investigation.
How seriously does it need to be investigated? What would that investigation even look like?
Satan will make sure every one is well done with ketchup though
An alarming number of people are dangerously misinformed because of people like you.
Does that make us even?
Actually reading the scriptures, for starters.
Engaging in an active discussion on religious topics would also be helpful. I think you can find plenty of interesting religious forums online. I find it tremendously helpful to talk about an idea and gather thoughts from others, re-evaluate, and refine those thoughts a little more. In some regard, I tend to think we're all like the blind men trying to describe to the other what the elephant is. The elephant is too large too handle - too large to understand for a blind person. We're simply trying to pursue truth. Still lots of digging to uncover.
For someone like yourself though, honestly, I think the best course of action would be to get through the Jordan Peterson lecture series on the Bible. He's not trying to prove anything. Merely present it from a psychological/secular point of view. Posted this earlier, but it's worth a look. Quite a few atheists and agnostics find themselves saying something like, "Okay, that actually makes sense." He's got at least 14 of these bible lectures online. There might be more. This is the first one.
Misinformation isn't a bad thing, per se. Annoying, yes. But, without it people are restricted in some sense. It at least allows us to freely express our ideas. Would hate for our thoughts and ideas to be compressed to a very narrow window. That would ultimately suppress ideas. The way it works is, you can say your stupid thing. I'll say my stupid thing. And everyone around us, that's just as biased and ignorant as the two of us, can use their best judgement in determining what actually constitutes truth.
If you think you're immune to misinformation or propaganda, you actually become the ideal target.
