***Official 2019 B1G Off Season thread***
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As I said, I think it's dumb to question any of Archie's achievements at Dayton. He was very successful there.
Also had the really sad case of Steve McElvene (sp?) who I think would've been a beast if he hadn't passed away.
It would be dumb to question that, I agree.
To be fair, otte isn't questioning that. He is making the argument that Painter had to do more to build the Purdue program than Miller did to build Dayton and just cited overall win totals from before they took over as his justifcation.
Both are dumb arguments to make IMO.
Not really. You thought Archie's first team would make it. You thought last year's team would be a shoo-in. Neither was even on the "last 4 out" type watch.
Again, you called some Purdue guys homers (which guys like JohnHoosier and pete are, and I have them ignored) but you're the one that has had much higher expectations for your teams than the results.
That 7-21 had the #1 overall strength of schedule according to Kenpom. That team wasn't as awful as their record would make you think. Kenpom had them higher than 15-16 Northwestern.
Painter didn't build Purdue. He rebuilt it after Keady stuck around too long.
But since you keep bringing me into the Miller conversation, outside of one Elite Eight run, he essentially sustained what Brian Gregory had done, which was essentially sustain what Oliver Purnell had done.
In Purnell's last 4 years, he went 97-45 (.683).
In Brian Gregory's 8 years, he went 172-94 (.647).
In Archie Miller's 6 years, he went 139-63 (.688).
Archie's conference record was better but it ramped when the A-10 lost Xavier, Butler, Charlotte and Temple.
That team was actually really awful. They lost to Miami Ohio and Milwaukee, and beat Evansville by 1 pt.
And Painter's first team (the year after that) had lost that team's top 3 scorers.
It didn't need to be "rebuilt". Purdue made the NCAA Tournament and made it out of the first round three seasons prior to Painter taking over. Two mediocre seasons don't sabotage a program, especially when you consider Painter was the Associate Head Coach in the worse of those two seasons.
"outside of one Elite Eight run, he essentially sustained what Brian Gregory had done"
What the actual fvck? You sure you want to stand by that statement?
It wasn't as awful as the record would indicate. It was more like a .500 team than a 7-21 team. You drop that team in a conference like the A-10 and it probably wins 17 games.
And Painter was the Associate Head Coach that year, btw.
Yes I know. That team and Painter's first team played really, really hard...they just had like zero talent outside Teague/Landry (who obviously didn't play Painter's first year) because Keady had really struggled to recruit in his later years.
Trying to argue that the 7 win team was actually a good A-10 team is a weird debate.
Correct what is wrong about it.
Archie benefited greatly by Rick Majerus' retirement and the A-10's better programs being poached by the Big East (Xavier and Butler) and Temple (American). SLU, X and Temple won seven straight A-10 titles between them in the seven years prior to Archie's Elite Eight run.
I live about 25 minutes from UD's campus so I'm well aware of their history and Archie's place in it.
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I didn't say that they were good. I'm just saying that that 7 win total is a bit unfair considering they literally played the #1 toughest schedule in college basketball. Kenpom has that 7-21 team in the same range as 13-15 win Big Ten teams and 16-18 win mid majors.
Yep that was a bad team. Year 2 was when things started clicking with Kramer and Keaton Grant. That 2005 class was decent on paper but a lot of off-court issues. Only 1 of them made it all 4 years in Marcus Green.
You were arguing that Purdue hadn't really struggled before Painter got there. The reality was that the program had just finished its worst five-year stretch since the early 60s. That's sort of relevant to the argument.
You're trying paint a picture that Keady had things sailing smoothly and that the 7 win team wasn't actually horrible.
It was horrible.
A-10 overall conference ranks in Gregory's years:
10th
13th
9th
12th
8th
8th
7th
9th
Gregory's conference record: 70-58 (.547)
NCAA Tournament appearances: 2 out of 8 (.250)
NCAA Tournament wins: 1
A-10 overall conference ranks in Miller's years:
8th
8th
8th
7th
8th
8th
Miller's conference record: 68-38 (.667)
NCAA Tournament appearances: 4 out of 6 (.667)
NCAA Tournament wins: 5
in Fran's presser 6'8 Patrick will be playing this upcoming season, he has been putting on the weight and is now up to 195 lbs, up from 175 lbs. he will be playing the 3, this gives Fran another Top 100 4* player to have at his disposal.
that now makes 4 ESPN top 100 players making the starting line up like this
PG 6'5 Connor top 100 RSSO
SG 6'6 Wieskamp top 100 SO
SF 6'8 Patrick top 100 FR
PF 6'11 Garza top 100 JR
C 7'0 Nunge 3* player RSSO
with ESPN 4* PG Toussaint
on a side they holding out hope that Jordan might be ready to go yet this upcoming season.
that now makes 4 ESPN top 100 players making the starting line up like this
PG 6'5 Connor top 100 RSSO
SG 6'6 Wieskamp top 100 SO
SF 6'8 Patrick top 100 FR
PF 6'11 Garza top 100 JR
C 7'0 Nunge 3* player RSSO
with ESPN 4* PG Toussaint
on a side they holding out hope that Jordan might be ready to go yet this upcoming season.
A couple of Purdue fans made comments that were a little out there and Snu is trying to paint the entire Purdue fanbase as raving lunatics.
Michigan wasn't being talked about enough so Hail joined the conversation.
So, it's another Wednesday.
It wasn't as horrible as "7-21" looks, though. It was more like a .500 team that had a ridiculously hard schedule.
I didn't say they hadn't struggled. My entire point was that the program didn't need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Did you skip over the rest of my posts? I don't blame you if you did but don't put words in my mouth.
It was a Purdue fan that brought up Beilein and it wasn't in response to me. But go ahead and ignore that point.
Wasn't last year's team was one of the last four out, lol. They would have been a shooin had we not had the injuries we did.
So again, you're either ignorant or you're lying, or both.
A couple? Based on yesterday and today, it's more than a couple. I'd say we have a couple rational Purdue posters here. Not everyone is on Johnhoosiers level, but more are closer to him than to BoilerExpress who I view as a very rational poster (plus his gif usage is elite).
"outside of one Elite Eight run, he essentially sustained what Brian Gregory had done"
This wins the award for hottest take of 2019 and that includes Gil's post about Iowa having 90+ppg potential.
1) Because a Purdue fan (coming off Purdue's first Elite 8 in 19 seasons) casually dismisses an Elite 8 season from a mid-major program
and
2) Because it's just a terrible take based on their conference and NCAA Tournament numbers
This wins the award for hottest take of 2019 and that includes Gil's post about Iowa having 90+ppg potential.
1) Because a Purdue fan (coming off Purdue's first Elite 8 in 19 seasons) casually dismisses an Elite 8 season from a mid-major program
and
2) Because it's just a terrible take based on their conference and NCAA Tournament numbers
Butler? Butler was never in the A-10 when Gregory was there. They were in the A-10 one season and it was while Archie was there.
The A-10 lost Xavier and Temple about mid-way through Archie's A-10 career and those teams were replaced by solid VCU and Davidson programs. That's probably why there wasn't a drop off in overall conference strength.
Did someone say it needed to be rebuilt "from the ground up" or are you injecting that?
And IU made the tourney in 4 of the 6 seasons before Miller with two S16 appearances and season where they were ranked #1 in the country.
Please read the thread. I'm not arguing Indiana/Purdue. I'll leave that between you guys and the IU fans.
As an outsider, I'm pointing out the stupidity of the Purdue fans acting like Painter had to rebuild Purdue's whole program after Keady while Miller just sustained what Gregory did at Dayton.
yeah, b10 offseason thread in peak form today imo
I think you misconstrue my simple statement as casual dismissal. But I can understand how that could happen on a message board.
That said, I am on record as saying I think too much emphasis is put on NCAA tournament results and that Dayton run would be an example I would use.
In the first round, Dayton needed a bucket with less than 4 seconds left to knock off OSU and in the 2nd round, Tyler Ennis missed two open looks in the last 8 seconds for Syracuse that would have given Cuse a late lead. If either of those occur, I'd wager Archie isn't coaching at IU. But they did so he is. And I didn't even mention that they beat 10 seeded Stanford to reach the Elite Eight (wait, now I did).
It was a great run and they won the games but it also illustrates the tenuous nature of NCAA success. As a Michigan fan, you should be well aware of that.