***Official 2019 B1G Off Season thread***

[boiler1987]

It makes it better than the one Archie inherited. It would be like Thomas Bryant and JBJ sitting out Archie's first year and then playing with last years team. You think IU makes the tournament if last year's team had Bryant and JBJ? Haha.

Depends if JBJ was still a sieve on defense. Your team in year 2 had Morgan and Romeo while Purdue’s main two were Teague and Landry. The complimentary pieces may have actually favored IU. That Purdue team that took eventual national champion Florida to the wire in the 2nd round was comparable in talent to IU’s team last year.

 

[boilerzz]

Beilein took over a program that missed the NCAA Tournament 9 straight seasons.

Keady took Purdue to the NCAA Tournament 17 times in 25 years.


You guys are reaching.

Since you interjected, I'll respond to someone capable of a reasonable conversation.

In Keady's last 5 years, he went 73-79 overall and 31-49 in Big Ten play in that time, he made just one NCAA tournament appearance.

The six guys who started more than 10 games in Painter's first year included:
Matt Keifer - Had started 44 games prior to that season, averaging 6.2 points and 2.2 rebounds
Bryant Dillon - A former 2 star JUCO transfer in his 2nd year in the program who averaged 2.3 points his first year
Chris Lutz - An unranked 3 star true freshman
Chris Hartley - A walk-on who had started 5 games the previous year and had scored 54 career points in 23 career games
Gary Ware - A 2nd year JUCO transfer who averaged 4.1 points and 2.9 rebounds his first year in the program
Nate Minnoy - a 3 star true freshman ranked 147th

I'm proud of Keady's success at Purdue but he stayed too long and Painter absolutely had to rebuild Purdue because of it. It wasn't as bad as the situation Crean walked into but it was markedly worse than the one Archie inherited and Painter was able to go 22-12 in his 2nd season and beat Arizona in the NCAA tournament before falling to eventual national champion Florida.

 

[boiler1987]

I'd say that Indiana has a status advantage over Purdue. Painter inherited had a more well-rounded team than Archie, but Juwan Morgan was much better than anyone Purdue had.

If I were a coach choosing between each situation, I'd choose IU's because it's easier to rebuild. Both rosters sucked pretty bad though outside of a couple of pieces. Purdue was probably in a worse situation because had Painter not been a decent coach, they'd have become irrelevant.

Morgan is/was worse than Carl Landry. Not even a question.

 

[SNU0821]

So now Gregory AND Crean built better programs than Keady...

I'll give you guys credit, you will try anything to make your original point.

Yup. They actually believe the nonsense they post. It’s kind of sad, really.

 

[SNU0821]

Morgan is/was worse than Carl Landry. Not even a question.

I’d like to see the stats on this.

 

[SNU0821]

I'm proud of Keady's success at Purdue but he stayed too long and Painter absolutely had to rebuild Purdue because of it. It wasn't as bad as the situation Crean walked into but it was markedly worse than the one Archie inherited and Painter was able to go 22-12 and beat Arizona in the NCAA tournament before falling to eventual national champion Florida.

Disagree. Archie’s roster he inherited was a complete mess. There was talent on Painters roster. He also didn’t have the injuries Archie had that killed his second year. This has been beat to death already. Painter and Archie both inherited ok situations. They weren’t terrible. Both programs weren’t winning as much as they wanted and both coaches had to bring them back to where they wanted to be. Painter did that. Archie is in the process.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Since you interjected, I'll respond to someone capable of a reasonable conversation.

In Keady's last 5 years, he went 73-79 overall and 31-49 in Big Ten play in that time, he made just one NCAA tournament appearance.

The six guys who started more than 10 games in Painter's first year included:
Matt Keifer - Had started 44 games prior to that season, averaging 6.2 points and 2.2 rebounds
Bryant Dillon - A former 2 star JUCO transfer in his 2nd year in the program who averaged 2.3 points his first year
Chris Lutz - An unranked 3 star true freshman
Chris Hartley - A walk-on who had started 5 games the previous year and had scored 54 career points in 23 career games
Gary Ware - A 2nd year JUCO transfer who averaged 4.1 points and 2.9 rebounds his first year in the program
Nate Minnoy - a 3 star true freshman ranked 147th

I'm proud of Keady's success at Purdue but he stayed too long and Painter absolutely had to rebuild Purdue because of it. It wasn't as bad as the situation Crean walked into but it was markedly worse than the one Archie inherited and Painter was able to go 22-12 and beat Arizona in the NCAA tournament before falling to eventual national champion Florida.

Purdue made the NCAA tournament and made it past the first round just 3 seasons before Painter took over. Michigan missed the tournament 8 straight years before Beilein took over.

I’m not sure what’s worse, the other guy making the comparison initially or you sitting here defending it.

 

[boilerzz]

I’d like to see the stats on this.

Landry averaged 18.9 points and 7.3 rebounds while shooting 60% gtom the floor as a senior at Purdue. What did Morgan do?

 

[boilerzz]

Purdue made the NCAA tournament and made it past the first round just 3 seasons before Painter took over. Michigan missed the tournament 8 straight years before Beilein took over.

I’m not sure what’s worse, the other guy making the comparison initially or you sitting here defending it.

Where did I mention Michigan? I was talking about IU.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Since you interjected, I'll respond to someone capable of a reasonable conversation.

In Keady's last 5 years, he went 73-79 overall and 31-49 in Big Ten play in that time, he made just one NCAA tournament appearance.

The six guys who started more than 10 games in Painter's first year included:
Matt Keifer - Had started 44 games prior to that season, averaging 6.2 points and 2.2 rebounds
Bryant Dillon - A former 2 star JUCO transfer in his 2nd year in the program who averaged 2.3 points his first year
Chris Lutz - An unranked 3 star true freshman
Chris Hartley - A walk-on who had started 5 games the previous year and had scored 54 career points in 23 career games
Gary Ware - A 2nd year JUCO transfer who averaged 4.1 points and 2.9 rebounds his first year in the program
Nate Minnoy - a 3 star true freshman ranked 147th

I'm proud of Keady's success at Purdue but he stayed too long and Painter absolutely had to rebuild Purdue because of it. It wasn't as bad as the situation Crean walked into but it was markedly worse than the one Archie inherited and Painter was able to go 22-12 and beat Arizona in the NCAA tournament before falling to eventual national champion Florida.

I just realized you called me capable of having a reasonable conversation and I responded to you kind of rude. My bad.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Depends if JBJ was still a sieve on defense. Your team in year 2 had Morgan and Romeo while Purdue’s main two were Teague and Landry. The complimentary pieces may have actually favored IU. That Purdue team that took eventual national champion Florida to the wire in the 2nd round was comparable in talent to IU’s team last year.

So now Carl Landry = Juwan Morgan? Hurt Freshman Romeo = Senior Teague? Whatever you say.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Where did I mention Michigan? I was talking about IU.

My response was to the guy who said Painter taking over at Purdue was like Beilein taking over at Michigan.

That and the Dayton stuff are the only things I see too out of line.

 

[boiler1987]

I’d like to see the stats on this.

Morgan:
Jr season- 16.5 Ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg,
Sr season- 15.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.9 apg

Landry:
Jr season- 18.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.2 apg
Sr season- 18.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg

Closer than I thought but Landry was the better player.

 

[Jaycg15]

Morgan is/was worse than Carl Landry. Not even a question.

Landry played in 5 games Painter's first season. He's a better player for sure though, and I was only looking at the first season.

 

[boiler1987]

So now Carl Landry = Juwan Morgan? Hurt Freshman Romeo = Senior Teague? Whatever you say.

Check Romeo’s stats versus Teague’s his senior year lol.

 

[boiler1987]

Landry played in 5 games Painter's first season. He's a better player for sure though.

Thought you meant overall my bad.

 

[boiler1987]

Disagree. Archie’s roster he inherited was a complete mess. There was talent on Painters roster. He also didn’t have the injuries Archie had that killed his second year. This has been beat to death already. Painter and Archie both inherited ok situations. They weren’t terrible. Both programs weren’t winning as much as they wanted and both coaches had to bring them back to where they wanted to be. Painter did that. Archie is in the process.

Do you not realize how bad the overall talent was that Painter inherited aside from Teague and Landry? It was just laid out by @boilerzz

 

[B1G_Fan]

Check Romeo’s stats versus Teague’s his senior year lol.

I know what they are. Landry and Teague as seniors were better than Senior Morgan and Hurt Freshman Romeo. It's really not debatable.

Painter inherited better talent that already knew his system. Archie inherited worse talent that had to learn an entirely new system.

 

[boiler1987]

I know what they are. Landry and Teague as seniors were better than Senior Morgan and Hurt Freshman Romeo. It's really not debatable.

Painter inherited better talent that already knew his system. Archie inherited worse talent that had to learn an entirely new system.

Inherited better talent from a team that went 7-21? Lol

 

[SNU0821]

Morgan:
Jr season- 16.5 Ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg,
Sr season- 15.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.9 apg

Landry:
Jr season- 18.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.2 apg
Sr season- 18.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg

Closer than I thought but Landry was the better player.

Yeah, no problem calling Landry better. I don't think it's a huge difference between the two players, but Landry is/was better. I honestly wanted to see the stats. Thanks.

 

[SNU0821]

I know what they are. Landry and Teague as seniors were better than Senior Morgan and Hurt Freshman Romeo. It's really not debatable.

Painter inherited better talent that already knew his system. Archie inherited worse talent that had to learn an entirely new system.

This.

 

[otte21]

@otte21 got real quiet all of a sudden.

Maybe because I’m at work. Painter inherited a shitty team, Purdue had some of the worst facilities in the big ten at the time, he didn’t inherit a prime Keady program.

 

[SNU0821]

Inherited better talent from a team that went 7-21? Lol

So talent and results are synonymous? I can point to several teams that had loads of talent that didn't get the results they should have.

 

[IUBtown]

After painters first few years he also benefited from Sampson royally screwing his chance up. I’m not really arguing either position was better than the other but painter didn’t accomplish a ton his first 11 years, Archie’s only had 2 years. I don’t get the flack from Purdue fans. I mean I do get it but I don’t think it’s warranted.

 

[boilerzz]

Looks like Curtis Jones is back in the Big Ten. Former IU player who transferred to Oklahoma State ends up at Penn State for his grad transfer year. He averaged 8.1 points and 3 rebounds at Okie State last year but was still painfully inefficient, shooting just 33.9% from the floor and 62.1% from the line.

 

[SNU0821]

Maybe because I’m at work. Painter inherited a shitty team, Purdue had some of the worst facilities in the big ten at the time, he didn’t inherit a prime Keady program.

Sure or it's because you got exposed for having an idiotic argument. What Painter inherited is not really different than what Archie took over.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Inherited better talent from a team that went 7-21? Lol

Yes, because they returned everyone from that team. IU lost 2 NBA players and a guy that averaged 17 ppg from a team that went 18-16. What would IU's record have been Crean's last year without OG, Bryant, and JBJ?

 

[otte21]

Comparing total wins can be a bit misleading. Sure Dayon won 47 games those last two years, but they still finished 7th and 8th in the A-10 those last two years. I'm going to guess they padded their wins with a bunch of cupcakes.


B1G Conference Championships: Keady 6
A-10 Conference Championships: Gregory 0

NCAA Tournament Appearances: Keady 17
NCAA Tournament Appearances: Gregory 2

NCAA Tournament Wins: Keady 19
NCAA Tournament Wins: Gregory 1



If you got their win totals from the same place I did (wiki) all of this information was there for you. Why would you just cite their win totals and not talk about anything else in terms of what preceding coach built a better program?

Yeah Keady was obviously a better coach than Gregory. Why are you citing career numbers? The hell does that have to do with the team/program at the time the next coach took over?

 

[IUBtown]

Crean took over a much much worse situation than either and accomplished more in his 10 years at Indiana than Painter did at Purdue. We in the other hand fired fired our coach.

 

[otte21]

The crazy thing is Otte wasn't even saying that Indiana was a better situation than Painter walked in to. He literally tried to make a case that Gregory built a better program at Dayton than Keady did at Purdue.

I hope not a single other Purdue fan here cosigns that.

You’re reaching.

 

[SNU0821]

You’re reaching.

Nah. Your argument was just that dumb.

 

[SNU0821]

Crean took over a much much worse situation than either and accomplished more in his 10 years at Indiana than Painter did at Purdue. We in the other hand fired fired our coach.

 

[boilerzz]

After painters first few years he also benefited from Sampson royally screwing his chance up. I’m not really arguing either position was better than the other but painter didn’t accomplish a ton his first 11 years, Archie’s only had 2 years. I don’t get the flack from Purdue fans. I mean I do get it but I don’t think it’s warranted.

I think the verdict is still out on Archie. I'll give him a pass on his first year but even with the injuries, I think he underachieved last season. He never did figure out how to effectively play Morgan and Davis to maximize what they brought to the table.

I think the vitriol towards Archie (particularly by a vocal portion of the IU fanbase) is stronger because of what Holtmann was able to accomplish at OSU after Crean had more success his final 3-5 years than Matta did.

 

[B-Westy]

Crean took over a much much worse situation than either and accomplished more in his 10 years at Indiana than Painter did at Purdue. We in the other hand fired fired our coach.

And look at where you’re at now. Back on top of the mount... wait...

 

[otte21]

Sure or it's because you got exposed for having an idiotic argument. What Painter inherited is not really different than what Archie took over.

Lol okay buddy

 

[BoilerExpress]

My response was to the guy who said Painter taking over at Purdue was like Beilein taking over at Michigan.

That was me. I almost didn’t include beilein because knew you’d whine about it (side note: nailed it!) but you missed my point. Both took a job at a good program that had fallen on hard times. Of course it’s not exactly the same, that’s why I said somewhat similar. But certainly some differences: Michigan was on a worse run, and on the flip side JB wasn’t trying to replace a HOF-level coach. Michigan is a historically better program (natty in the last 30 years versus 80 years ago for Purdue, etc)

In any case, i really only follow the b10, and too lazy to try to find a comparable situation in another league. And I can’t think of any other b10 schools in the last 25ish years that were in a similar spot replacing a long time successful coach that fell off a cliff his last few years (guys like Ryan, knight, Jud don’t fit the bill)

 

[SNU0821]

I think the verdict is still out on Archie. I'll give him a pass on his first year but even with the injuries, I think he underachieved last season. He never did figure out how to effectively play Morgan and Davis to maximize what they brought to the table.

I think the vitriol towards Archie (particularly by a vocal portion of the IU fanbase) is stronger because of what Holtmann was able to accomplish at OSU after Crean had more success his final 3-5 years than Matta did.

Holtmann inherited the BTPOY. Archie did not. Having those types of players tends to help.

 

[boiler1987]

Crean took over a much much worse situation than either and accomplished more in his 10 years at Indiana than Painter did at Purdue. We in the other hand fired fired our coach.

You fired him because he missed the tournament more often than he made it at IU. Sure he had some success in the years he made it but 4 NCAA appearances in 9 years wasn’t good enough. Way too unpredictable year to year.

 

[boilerzz]

Holtmann inherited the BTPOY. Archie did not. Having those types of players tends to help.

No, he inherited a guy coming off a lost season due to a stress fracture who was a career 8 ppg scorer. Holtmann helped make him into the BTPOY.

 

[SNU0821]

You fired him because he missed the tournament more often than he made it at IU. Sure he had some success in the years he made it but 4 NCAA appearances in 9 years wasn’t good enough. Way too unpredictable year to year.

And no success in the tournament was a factor, too.