Is Duke or Kentucky the biggest underachiever?

[lurkeraspect84]

It's easy to tell who's insecure.

Again, since this starts page 2

Some act like poor recruiting is an excuse for doing less. Why don't they have 25+ tournament wins? Why don't they have 5 Elite 8's or 3 or more Final Fours. ...oh recruiting, and lack of a HOF coach. Shucks.

*it's a troll thread.*

 

[Kevin Bryan]

It's easy to tell who's insecure.

Again, since this starts page 2

Some act like poor recruiting is an excuse for doing less.

What does that "1" under "National Titles" for Louisville mean? I don't remember that.

 

[AWilli6995]

You posting that again tells me you’re a tad insecure. Roy’s won 3 titles at UNC, Cal has 1 since he’s been at UK. I guess you have to hold on to something to make your argument.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

You posting that again tells me you’re a tad insecure. Roy’s won 3 titles at UNC, Cal has 1 since he’s been at UK. I guess you have hold to something to make your argument.

I didn't create the stats. Also note, this is clearly a troll thread, so I can brag all I want.

 

[AWilli6995]

I didn't create the stats.

I’m with you.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I'm guessing this thread didn't go the way @VaultHunter hoped.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

You posting that again tells me you’re a tad insecure. Roy’s won 3 titles at UNC, Cal has 1 since he’s been at UK. I guess you have to hold on to something to make your argument.

They both have 1 since Cal has been at UK, 2009-10. It's not exactly equal, either. Roy has been coaching blue bloods his entire career, 31 years. I would be willing to bet if Cal had spent his entire 27 years at a blue blood, rather than just the last 10, he would have more than 1 title. The advantages that come with coaching at programs like UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc. aren't exactly on par with UMass and Memphis.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

They both have 1 since Cal has been at UK, 2009-10. It's not exactly equal, either. Roy has been coaching blue bloods his entire career, 31 years. I would be willing to bet if Cal had spent his entire 27 years at a blue blood, rather than just the last 10, he would have more than 1 title. The advantages that come with coaching at programs like UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc. aren't exactly on par with UMass and Memphis.

IMO, UK got him a title and took a title away in '96. I think UMASS would have beat Syracuse.

 

[AWilli6995]

They both have 1 since Cal has been at UK, 2009-10. It's not exactly equal, either. Roy has been coaching blue bloods his entire career, 31 years. I would be willing to bet if Cal had spent his entire 27 years at a blue blood, rather than just the last 10, he would have more than 1 title. The advantages that come with coaching at programs like UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc. aren't exactly on par with UMass and Memphis.

I agree. Cal would of have more titles had he started at a blue blood. I rag on him from time to time but I like the way he coaches his players. He makes his kids earn PT no matter how many stars you had in HS.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I agree. Cal would of have more titles had he started at a blue blood. I rag on him from time to time but I like the way he coaches his players. He makes his kids earn PT no matter how many stars you had in HS.

I think most here are fans of basketball and respect rivals even though they might not admit it.

One of my favorite things about UNC is the freaking relentlessness to win. How can anyone not respect sheer desire and effort? How long did it take us to fire Doherty and Gillispie?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

I agree. Cal would of have more titles had he started at a blue blood. I rag on him from time to time but I like the way he coaches his players. He makes his kids earn PT no matter how many stars you had in HS.

I would like to see him sprinkle in a few more lower ranked guys. The only ones he gets like that are Kentucky kids (Hood, Hawkins, Willis). The only non-Kentucky guys in 10 years that have stayed at UK longer than 2 years were Poythress, Cauley-Stein, Lee, and hopefully Richards. It's just hard to get kids to commit when they know they won't see much playing time and there's a good chance they'll get recruited over. They've had some of those multi-year guys and they all transferred: Dodson, Poole, Wiltjer, Lee, Matthews, Killeya-Jones, Baker, and Green.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I would like to just add, can a team like say...WVU underachieve? Is it possible? They never expect anything, nor do anything. Not just WVU, but in general?

 

[HRTheCard]

Really? Because they had 3 top 20 guys on one team that stayed 3-4 years (Hicks, Jackson, Pinson).

I dont recall them being on draft boards going that high. Guess I could be wrong.

 

[AWilli6995]

I dont recall them being on draft boards going that high. Guess I could be wrong.

They weren't on any draft boards before the 2017 title. Jackson was a lottery pick and Hicks/Pinson the following year didn't get drafted.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

I dont recall them being on draft boards going that high. Guess I could be wrong.

I'm saying top 20 coming out of HS. In most cases, guys that would be considered to be talented enough to enter the draft as underclassmen.

 

[HRTheCard]

I'm saying top 20 coming out of HS. In most cases, guys that would be considered to be talented enough to enter the draft as underclassmen.

Well yeah but if they aren't projected to be drafted high then I see why they came back.

PJ Washington was ranked #15 coming out of high school and he came back. It was the smartest decision he ever made.

 

[Mac9192]

In other words, a team has yet to win relying on just freshman because those teams don't exist. Brilliant observation.

Ok captain obvious. I’ll type a little slower for you. The teams that win titles get major CONTRIBUTIONS from a variety of players, not just THE FRESHMEN.
Please put the kool aid down and slowly step away

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Ok captain obvious. I’ll type a little slower for you. The teams that win titles get major CONTRIBUTIONS from a variety of players, not just THE FRESHMEN.
Please put the kool aid down and slowly step away

How many times has a team won that ONLY had CONTRIBUTIONS from SENIORS?

I am guessing just as many that only had contributions from freshman.

 

[Mac9192]

How many times has a team won that ONLY had CONTRIBUTIONS from SENIORS?

I am guessing just as many that only had contributions from freshman.

You’ve really brought your A game.
Didn’t see these responses coming from a Mod, but being one doesn’t necessarily mean smart is a prerequisite.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

How many times has a team won that ONLY had CONTRIBUTIONS from SENIORS?

I am guessing just as many that only had contributions from freshman.

Blood on toilet paper = bad

 

[Kevin Bryan]

You’ve really brought your A game.
Didn’t see these responses coming from a Mod, but being one doesn’t necessarily mean smart is a prerequisite.

I'll wait while you list all the championship teams that only had contributions from seniors, or only juniors, or only sophomores.

 

[Mac9192]

I'll wait while you list all the championship teams that only had contributions from seniors, or only juniors, or only sophomores.

That has never been the point. You’re reaching. Has nothing to do with upperclassmen led teams. It’s about being heavily reliant on the one and done led teams. I’ve not said you can’t win with one and dones, just that you need, now read carefully here, cause I don’t want you to become more confused than you’ve already shown, BALANCE.

What a concept!!! Holy Sh#%!!!!

 

[Kevin Bryan]

That has never been the point. You’re reaching. Has nothing to do with upperclassmen led teams. It’s about being heavily reliant on the one and done led teams. I’ve not said you can’t win with one and dones, just that you need, now read carefully here, cause I don’t want you to become more confused than you’ve already shown, BALANCE.

What a concept!!! Holy Sh#%!!!!

Wrong, that is absolutely the point. You said no team has ever won led solely by freshman. Well no shit! No team has ever won led solely by any one class. Every team is going to utilize at least 7 players. It's rare to even have that many players in the same class on one team. Let me remind you that one of us said, "A team has yet to win it relying on just freshmen," and it wasn't me.

 

[Afamu]

They weren't on any draft boards before the 2017 title. Jackson was a lottery pick and Hicks/Pinson the following year didn't get drafted.

Where were they ranked prior to coming to UNc?

 

[AWilli6995]

Where were they ranked prior to coming to UNc?

Read the entire thread and you’ll see that was said. Keeping up is something you’re not good at.

 

[Afamu]

Read the entire thread and you’ll see that was said. Keeping up is something you’re not good at.

No thanks. Your bull shit is not that important.

Nice underachieving this year though. 2 lottery picks and another first rounder. One lottery pick could not even start for ole Roy.

 

[jhmossy]

I would like to just add, can a team like say...WVU underachieve? Is it possible? They never expect anything, nor do anything. Not just WVU, but in general?

@doogie503

 

[Montana81]

I legit wanted to know op’s thoughts on borlderlands 3 and he/she never came back.

 

[BasketBallJunkie-UK]

I think a lot of it has to do with Roy's system. How long did it take Little, Barnes, Henson to acclimate? Everyone was asking what is wrong with Little. It's the system.

 

[Afamu]

I think a lot of it has to do with Roy's system. How long did it take Little, Barnes, Henson to acclimate? Everyone was asking what is wrong with Little. It's the system.

UNc excuse. What is so complicated about Roy’s system that other schools don’t use. Bunch of BS.

Is the secondary break that hard to learn.

 

[ExitFlagger]

They both have 1 since Cal has been at UK, 2009-10. It's not exactly equal, either. Roy has been coaching blue bloods his entire career, 31 years. I would be willing to bet if Cal had spent his entire 27 years at a blue blood, rather than just the last 10, he would have more than 1 title. The advantages that come with coaching at programs like UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc. aren't exactly on par with UMass and Memphis.

He had a lot of talent (and experience) in his last several years at Memphis. 08 Memphis is still one of his best rosters.

 

[DWMcatforlife]

UVA was a veteran team that won the title, Villanova's 2 titles were veteran dominated teams, UNC, a veteran team. Now some teams had freshman stars with the help of some veterans like UK and Duke in recent memory. Personally I'll take experienced talent over inexperienced talent all day everyday.

Who wouldn’t take experienced talent over inexperienced talent? You play the NCAA tournament 10 times, you probably get 7/8 different champs.. I’m just curious if any fan or coach would ever say that they wouldn’t take the best high school players every year.. why in the world wouldn’t anyone take the best.. you can’t help that they’re allowed to go pro after one year.. if only Cal or K could keep every 5* kid 2/3 years..

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Who wouldn’t take experienced talent over inexperienced talent? You play the NCAA tournament 10 times, you probably get 7/8 different champs.. I’m just curious if any fan or coach would ever say that they wouldn’t take the best high school players every year.. why in the world wouldn’t anyone take the best.. you can’t help that they’re allowed to go pro after one year.. if only Cal or K could keep every 5* kid 2/3 years..

Everyone has an ideal way to create championship teams yet, talent keeps dominating the winning stats. sure teams here or there wins one, but seriously. How often have UVA, villinnova, butler, wisconsin etc, been in the Elite 8, Final four? Certain teams are there almost every year. That's all we want.Have a chance every year. not once every 4 years. EVERY YEAR have a chance. yeah yeah, 'if you have that many chances you should have won more". get bent, it's easy for you to say when you root for a team that is glad to have a 30 win season and make it to the second weekend in their lifetime.

 

[doogie503]

I would like to just add, can a team like say...WVU underachieve? Is it possible? They never expect anything, nor do anything. Not just WVU, but in general?

We underachieved this year. Preseason top 15 or top 10 (i forget where we started), but finished under .500

Normally i would say we're overachievers. We have a conf tourney title, a final four, elite 8 and several sweet 16's this decade. One of the nation's longest top 25 streaks before we fell apart last season. I wouldn't call that not doing anything.

 

[Montana81]

We underachieved this year. Preseason top 15 or top 10 (i forget where we started), but finished under .500

Normally i would say we're overachievers. We have a conf tourney title, a final four, elite 8 and several sweet 16's this decade. One of the nation's longest top 25 streaks before we fell apart last season. I wouldn't call that not doing anything.

I assume he brought up wvu because the op is a mountaineer fan.

 

[Danger 35 Zone]

Hmm...didn't work out for other prospects. They went to other schools and weren't #1.

UK had some of those prospects too.

Some players won't live up to their ranking regardless of what school they go to, some will exceed it regardless of what school they go to, and some could go to any school as the #1 recruit and still get drafted #1.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

UK had some of those prospects too.

Some players won't live up to their ranking regardless of what school they go to, some will exceed it regardless of what school they go to, and some could go to any school as the #1 recruit and still get drafted #1.

Agree. Wall and KAT were neither #1 prospects and ended up drafted #1. Hopefully, when recruiting top notch players, they can live up to the rankings and maybe surpass them as mentioned prior.

 

[AWilli6995]

UNc excuse. What is so complicated about Roy’s system that other schools don’t use. Bunch of BS.

Is the secondary break that hard to learn.

You wear that obsession well Filly.