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Gonzagas actual numbers

dukedevilz said:
lol transitive property. Really?

Texas Southern > Florida > Auburn

Did I do it right?
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No.

Auburn beat Alabama home and away. Kentucky beat Alabama home and away. Alabama in the SEC is now the 5th best team. How did they beat Gonzaga?

How is that transitive? His final conclusion was true.

The Zags are number 1; however, they have not beaten shit. That is very transitive. Why in hell did they lose to Alabama? We are talking about basketball not football.
 
Bert Higginbotha said:
No.

Auburn beat Alabama home and away. Kentucky beat Alabama home and away. Alabama in the SEC is now the 5th best team. How did they beat Gonzaga?

How is that transitive? His final conclusion was true.

The Zags are number 1; however, they have not beaten shit. That is very transitive. Why in hell did they lose to Alabama? We are talking about basketball not football.
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He was saying Auburn > Alabama > Gonzaga

Which is always a silly argument. Everybody loses a couple games. Zags did beat two KenPom top 10 teams by an average of 17 points.
 
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dukedevilz said:
Haha I'm sure they'll be very average next year. All 5 starters are seniors. So yeah, don't expect them to be relevant in 2023.
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I will extend my offer.

Many years UK loses our starters. You don't make excuses for Kentucky.

I hope that UK plays San Fran for the next 50 years. UK needs help. The only problem is that it will lower our ratings as they are shit.

San Fan is not a basketball program, yesterday, today or tomorrow.
 
Bert Higginbotha said:
I will extend my offer.

Many years UK loses our starters. You don't make excuses for Kentucky.

I hope that UK plays San Fran for the next 50 years. UK needs help. The only problem is that it will lower our ratings as they are shit.

San Fan is not a basketball program, yesterday, today or tomorrow.
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Haha why do you care so much about this? I'm not even a San Francisco fan or homer. I'll watch a couple WCC games a week. And I think San Francisco is a solid program this year. They absolutely look like a tournament team. But, I'm not going to lose sleep if they never win a tournament game again.

And obviously there's a big difference between Kentucky bringing in top 25 recruits - and USF hoping they can snag an occasional 3-star recruit.
 
USF facilities are laughable compared to P6 programs. You have to run through the front lobby of the arena to go from the court to the locker room. And up until a few years ago, the home and visiting team had to share the same shower area lol.

They're not going to be the next Gonzaga. Obviously. But, what does that have to do with the current team?
 
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RipThru said:
I don't care one way or the other, but your stance is purely because you don't like Cal. 15-20 game turnaround seems to be the standard

After looking around a bit, Self won a COY award in a year where UK won the natty. Pitiful.
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Not sure why you’re calling that pitiful.

I don’t hate Calipari. It’s just reality. I don’t think you’ll see a single non-Kentucky fan argue that he should be a frontrunner.

COY is generally awarded to the coach who surpassed expectations the most, right? Otzelberger inherited one of the worst major conference teams in the country, which was expected to be dogshit again, and turned them into a tourney team in year one. Calipari has a top 10 roster that was widely considered to be a final four contender. How are they even in the same ballpark?
 
dukedevilz said:
Haha why do you care so much about this? I'm not even a San Francisco fan or homer. I'll watch a couple WCC games a week. And I think San Francisco is a solid program this year. They absolutely look like a tournament team. But, I'm not going to lose sleep if they never win a tournament game again.

And obviously there's a big difference between Kentucky bringing in top 25 recruits - and USF hoping they can snag an occasional 3-star recruit.
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WOW. o_O

You just told us that San Fran was good. Why are you retracting your statements?

I am a Kentucky fan. It is really simple. I live and die with Kentucky.

The last time San Fran was important was in the early 1950's when I was a little boy and was force by my parents to listen to Kentucky basketball on the radio. Now you are referring to them as the second coming of Christ. WOW.

I now want the SEC to take San Fran into the SEC and then let San Fan play UK 20 times a year. It will certainly make a difference in Kentucky's record.

GEEZE.
 
Bert Higginbotha said:
WOW. o_O

You just told us that San Fran was good. Why are you retracting your statements?

I am a Kentucky fan. It is really simple. I live and die with Kentucky.

The last time San Fran was important was in the early 1950's when I was a little boy and was force by my parents to listen to Kentucky basketball on the radio. Now you are referring to them as the second coming of Christ. WOW.

I now want the SEC to take San Fran into the SEC and then let San Fan play UK 20 times a year. It will certainly make a difference in Kentucky's record.

GEEZE.
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lol where did I retract my statement? San Francisco is good this year. But, I don't expect them to be anything special next year. They should be losing their entire starting five. That is not contradictory.

They're a good team. They could lose in the first round, obviously. Especially since they won't be a high seed. But, I think they're capable of winning a game or two. In other words, they're basically the second coming of Christ lol. Gotta love the hyperbole.
 
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I don't have a very strong opinion on this is but... Gonzaga plays to their seed in the NCAAT, but it they swapped conferences they would have lower seedings(most years). Even then, I think they would play to their seeding or do worse due to harder paths.

Its not their fault they know perfectly how to schedule AND they are a good team.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
I believe Rutgers is quad 2 is that right?

These guys have wins over everybody in the league , go to their place good luck with that

Wins over Wisky (actually on the road!) , Purdue, Illinois, Mich St, Iowa, tOSU, ... hello, good luck beating them at their place where you get all that quad 2 credit.

Gotta be careful with the #'s, I know you need some kinda barometer but this is one example of a few bears ya gotta deal with in the big boy league you just don't see at that lower level.
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Maybe we shoud make this thread about Rutgers
 
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ExitFlagger said:
Not sure why you’re calling that pitiful.

I don’t hate Calipari. It’s just reality. I don’t think you’ll see a single non-Kentucky fan argue that he should be a frontrunner.

COY is generally awarded to the coach who surpassed expectations the most, right? Otzelberger inherited one of the worst major conference teams in the country, which was expected to be dogshit again, and turned them into a tourney team in year one. Calipari has a top 10 roster that was widely considered to be a final four contender. How are they even in the same ballpark?
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I don't actually think he should be either.

It's pitiful because what did Self accomplish? Don't the same parameters apply for him as they do for Calipari?
 
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RipThru said:
I don't actually think he should be either.

It's pitiful because what did Self accomplish? Don't the same parameters apply for him as they do for Calipari?
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Are you being serious?

Yes, the same parameters apply. Self took a team to the title game that had lost all its top talent and added no one. Expectations weren't high for that team. But he didn't deserve COY because another guy with one of the most loaded rosters in history won it all? Is this seriously your argument?
 
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dukedevilz said:
1 quality win obviously doesn't make a team legit. I never made any such claim.

But, the whole time we've been talking about quality wins and "legit wins." Remember earlier, you wanted to include Quad 2 games when I mentioned Gonzaga had just as many Quad 1 games as Auburn. Now, suddenly you want to switch it to "legit teams" instead of "legit wins."

If Davidson is a "legit win," then Davidson must be a good team. So, Davidson was a legit win - and if Saint Mary's has 5 better wins than Davidson, it's logical to believe those 5 other "better" wins comprised of teams that could also be classified as "legit."

It's just funny how hard you're trying to make San Francisco come off as a ho-hum team. By every single metric out there, they're a top 40 team. And by many, they're a top 25 team. And if you actually watched them play, you could tell they're actually a pretty good team.
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Why are they a bubble team then if they are a top 25 team in your opinion? Routinely getting mentioned as last 4 in or last 4 bye’s.
 
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ExitFlagger said:
Are you being serious?

Yes, the same parameters apply. Self took a team to the title game that had lost all its top talent and added no one. Expectations weren't high for that team. But he didn't deserve COY because another guy with one of the most loaded rosters in history won it all? Is this seriously your argument?
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So KU goes 35-3 in 2010-11, 32-6 in 2011-12; UK was 29-9 in 2010-11 and 38-2 with a Natty, all the while starting 3 freshmen (since you want to talk about losing 'top talent') yet somehow Self did a better job? GTFO. And recruiting is MAJOR part of coaching. Why hold it against anyone when they do it better than you?
 
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RipThru said:
So KU goes 35-3 in 2010-11, 32-6 in 2011-12; UK was 29-9 in 2010-11 and 38-2 with a Natty, all the while starting 3 freshmen (since you want to talk about losing 'top talent') yet somehow Self did a better job? GTFO. And recruiting is MAJOR part of coaching. Why hold it against anyone when they do it better than you?
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If you want to hand out a separate COY award that goes to the guy who brings in the most talent or wins the championship, be my guest. I'm talking about the actual criteria for the existing COY awards.

Recruiting has absolutely nothing to do with COY and it shouldn't. Calipari was expected to do what he did that year. No one else was close in talent. Self's team was not exceptionally talented and a walk-on played major minutes. He lost his top three scorers and 6 of the top 8, and brought in no virtually no one.

Poor Cal lost Knight and Liggins and only added Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague and Wiltjer. How did he pull it off? 🤣
 
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ExitFlagger said:
If you want to hand out a separate COY award that goes to the guy who brings in the most talent or wins the championship, be my guest. I'm talking about the actual criteria for the existing COY awards.

Recruiting has absolutely nothing to do with COY and it shouldn't. Calipari was expected to do what he did that year. No one else was close in talent. Self's team was not exceptionally talented and a walk-on played major minutes. He lost his top three scorers and 6 of the top 8, and brought in no virtually no one.

Poor Cal lost Knight and Liggins and only added Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague and Wiltjer. How did he pull it off? 🤣
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The fact that you're holding up Self as a dude to win COY because he "brought in no virtually no one" tells me all I need to know.

I like Self; I think he's one of the best X and O guys in the game. But to act that he did more with less, while coaching at KANSAS is asinine. Thomas Robinson and Tyshawn Taylor weren't exactly OVC players. Throw in Withey who was great defensively and the other guard (I can't remember his name...Johnson maybe?) and the idea that KU wasn't talented is ridiculous.
 
RipThru said:
The fact that you're holding up Self as a dude to win COY because he "brought in no virtually no one" tells me all I need to know.

I like Self; I think he's one of the best X and O guys in the game. But to act that he did more with less, while coaching at KANSAS is asinine. Thomas Robinson and Tyshawn Taylor weren't exactly OVC players. Throw in Withey who was great defensively and the other guard (I can't remember his name...Johnson maybe?) and the idea that KU wasn't talented is ridiculous.
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So what if he coaches at Kansas? He misses on his top targets constantly.

That was just one of those years in which he lost a ton of talent to the NBA or graduation, with very little to replace them. Largely because McLemore wasn't eligible. All he added was Kevin Young, a very average role player.

If you want to argue that someone else should have won it that year, fine. I don't remember the other coaching jobs well. But to call it pitiful that he won it over Calipari has to be trolling.
 
RipThru said:
Apparently if you can recruit you are excluded from winning COY
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Bruce pearl is still yet to win an SEC coach of the year even though he has won 5 sec championships. All at two schools with limited basketball history
 
AuHoosier420 said:
Bruce pearl is still yet to win an SEC coach of the year even though he has won 5 sec championships. All at two schools with limited basketball history
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giphy.gif



Southeastern Conference Coach of the Year Winner​

 
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dukedevilz said:
giphy.gif



Southeastern Conference Coach of the Year Winner​

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A tie? On the SEC database on their site it shows Brady and Gillespie won it. LoL ar billy Gillespie winning an sec coach of the year award however
 
AuHoosier420 said:
Why are they a bubble team then if they are a top 25 team in your opinion? Routinely getting mentioned as last 4 in or last 4 bye’s.
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The Don's are NET 27 and that supports his position.
 
RipThru said:
Apparently if you can recruit you are excluded from winning COY
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Apparently you think that the national title winner should be COY every year?

It must be a shocking experience every time COY is announced.

Hilarious thing about this is that Calipari won COY in 2008 despite losing in the title game to Self. 🤣
 
ExitFlagger said:
Apparently you think that the national title winner should be COY every year?

It must be a shocking experience every time COY is announced.

Hilarious thing about this is that Calipari won COY in 2008 despite losing in the title game to Self. 🤣
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No, you suggest that you have to be talent deficient to win it. I would argue that sometimes the hardest coaching jobs are when it involves GREAT talent. I don't care if Cal ever wins it. Most of those things are just popularity contests anyway, never mind the fact I don't think he's a great X and O guy. But your argument that Self deserved it because he didn't bring in top talent to Kansas, a traditional blue blood, is ridiculous to me.
 
RipThru said:
No, you suggest that you have to be talent deficient to win it. I would argue that sometimes the hardest coaching jobs are when it involves GREAT talent. I don't care if Cal ever wins it. Most of those things are just popularity contests anyway, never mind the fact I don't think he's a great X and O guy. But your argument that Self deserved it because he didn't bring in top talent to Kansas, a traditional blue blood, is ridiculous to me.
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Let's rewind. My argument is that the coach who is perceived to have surpassed his expectations the most wins COY. I'm not even sure why we're arguing about it, because that's just how it's done. It's not my opinion.

Your argument is apparently that the coach who wins it all should be COY. Even if they were expected to win it.

And mine is the ridiculous argument?
 
AuHoosier420 said:
The NET needs to by way of the RPI eventually. I despise a system that looks at margin of victory more then strength of schedule
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I reserve the prerogative to be for or against any metric as it relates to Tennessee. :D
 
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ExitFlagger said:
Let's rewind. My argument is that the coach who is perceived to have surpassed his expectations the most wins COY. I'm not even sure why we're arguing about it, because that's just how it's done. It's not my opinion.

Your argument is apparently that the coach who wins it all should be COY. Even if they were expected to win it.

And mine is the ridiculous argument?
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That's not my argument at all. UK won 9 games last year. They will win 27 or more this year. At any other school that's a COY candidate. Stop changing the topic. Go back to the post where we started discussing this. (Reminder: I don't give a shit who wins it, including Cal)
 
RipThru said:
That's not my argument at all. UK won 9 games last year. They will win 27 or more this year. At any other school that's a COY candidate. Stop changing the topic. Go back to the post where we started discussing this. (Reminder: I don't give a shit who wins it, including Cal)
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I think that Cal's last years team vs some new coach's poor performing last year's team would be that Cal had the elite players that just didn't perform well and the new coach had a crappy team to start with.

So, Cal and Barnes really need to go undefeated to really surpass expectations where someone else can build something out of nothing.
 
della said:
I think that Cal's last years team vs some new coach's poor performing last year's team would be that Cal had the elite players that just didn't perform well and the new coach had a crappy team to start with.

So, Cal and Barnes really need to go undefeated to really surpass expectations where someone else can build something out of nothing.
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Were they though? I would argue they were highly rated but not elite. There is a difference. Again, this is just food for thought; I don't care who wins it.
 
RipThru said:
That's not my argument at all. UK won 9 games last year. They will win 27 or more this year. At any other school that's a COY candidate. Stop changing the topic. Go back to the post where we started discussing this. (Reminder: I don't give a shit who wins it, including Cal)
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Auburn had a losing record as well last year. Now we are in line for a one seed and just won the SEC. Auburn and Kentucky were both ranked in preseason though. I think the coach of the year awards to often go to the team that out performs what they are projected as in the preseason. Not what they improved on from previous season. Kentucky recruits so well each year to where you guys routinely get ranked high regardless of what happen last year. Thus when you are good you don’t really out perform expectations from the pre season because you were always suppose to be there. Coach of the year is literally directly tied to out performing the expectation for that season
 
RipThru said:
That's not my argument at all. UK won 9 games last year. They will win 27 or more this year. At any other school that's a COY candidate. Stop changing the topic. Go back to the post where we started discussing this. (Reminder: I don't give a shit who wins it, including Cal)
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No….no other coach who guided a preseason top 10 team full of highly-rated players to 9 wins is going to get praised for doing what he’s expected to do the next season.

Give me a break. Your own fans don’t even agree with this.
 
AuHoosier420 said:
Auburn had a losing record as well last year. Now we are in line for a one seed and just won the SEC. Auburn and Kentucky were both ranked in preseason though. I think the coach of the year awards to often go to the team that out performs what they are projected as in the preseason. Not what they improved on from previous season. Kentucky recruits so well each year to where you guys routinely get ranked high regardless of what happen last year. Thus when you are good you don’t really out perform expectations from the pre season because you were always suppose to be there. Coach of the year is literally directly tied to out performing the expectation for that season
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The purpose of COY is not to reward a coach who underperformed in the previous year. Neither Calipari nor Pearl deserve heaps of praise for improving on their shit seasons from last year.

And by your logic, Nike could buy 4 of the top 5 players in the country and steer them to Kentucky, and Cal would be COY all because he didn’t massively underachieve again. Ridiculous.
 
ExitFlagger said:
The purpose of COY is not to reward a coach who underperformed in the previous year. Neither Calipari nor Pearl deserve heaps of praise for improving on their shit seasons from last year.

And by your logic, Nike could buy 4 of the top 5 players in the country and steer them to Kentucky, and Cal would be COY all because he didn’t massively underachieve again. Ridiculous.
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I somewhat agree with your point but what you are missing is that the award routinely goes to folks that an argument could be that also under achieved previously. The merits behind the award aren’t always consistently applied across the board
 
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