You would be a better judge of that than me. However, they were the #1 recruiting class and you could see one or two missing, but not all of them. However, you get my original premise.
Gonzagas actual numbers
- Thread starter ThePhog08
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#1 recruiting class. Two top 10 recruits. 5 top 30. Plus a few really solid veteran transfers. 3 players now in the NBA.
There are a few individual underachievers on just about every team. Not an excuse for 9 wins.
You clearly don't know what you watched, if you watched UK last year and think that group was "elite". All top 10 kids aren't created equally. Askew was, and continues to be, ass. Clarke was basically a DNP. A kid that is top 10 in one class may be 20 in another class. As far as "3 players in the NBA", thanks for making my point for me. Olivier Sarr= 6 games played, 4 ppg. Isaiah Jackson= 24 games, 7 ppg. BJ Boston= 44 games, 6 ppg. Yea boy, that's an elite bunch.
But you are right about one thing; 9 wins is unacceptable at UK.
I'm gonna say "no" to San Fran. They are just less bad than the rest, but they're not a good team. They haven't played anybody outside of Gonzaga and St Mary's, and they're 0-4 in those games. They wouldn't finish in the top 2/3 of any major conference. They'd probably finish dead last or near last in just about every P5 conference. KenPom has some uses, but it's highly deceiving when teams have a bunch of wins against below average teams. ISU was at or near the top in KenPom at one point this season, now they're near the bottom of the Big XII, after they finally started playing some competition.
Good on Santa Clara, but TCU early in the season is not the same as they are now. For one, they were missing two of their starters in that game, and they also were a team with a lot of new pieces who were trying to figure out how to play together. They've been very inconsistent for most of the year, but the light is starting to come together. They have some very good athletes but struggle with shooting and ball security. A bunch of individual pieces that didn't know how to play as a team. They're starting to figure it out though, and I'd hate to face them in the 2nd round as a 1 or 2 seed. But early on in the season they were not good. That same Santa Clara team lost to UC Irvine, Louisiana Tech, Boise State, Fresno State, and California(the 2nd worst team in the PAC). If the two teams played now, I'd lay HEAVY money on TCU to win by a large margin.
BYU? Again, you're going to struggle to convince me that a team that lost to Utah Valley, Creighton, and Vanderbilt(near the bottom of the SEC) is good. No, they aren't terrible, but they are still a team that any top 10 team should expect to beat easily. Yes, BYU did have a weird win over Oregon, but that's kind of the schtick of the PAC 12, a bunch of athletic teams that are extremely bi-polar. They'll come out and beat a top 10 team one night and lose by 20 to a bad team the next.
Regarding their Quad 1 wins, sure. But there are Quad 1 wins and then there are Quad 1 wins. Some teams play a bunch of Quad 1 teams that are near the top of the Quad and other teams play a bunch of Quad 1 teams that are flirting with Quad 2. Gonzaga usually plays a couple games against those Quad 1 teams near the top, and a bunch of teams that are borderline Quad 2.
All of that being said, Gonzaga is a very good team and I do believe they're a legit top 5 team. But the arguments that their schedule isn't that bad are not great arguments. They're a very good team that plays a shit schedule. They do try to make up for it in the noncon, but they can't really make up for their conference schedule by playing a couple good teams in the noncon.
LOL. 9 win teams usually have 0 NBA players. And those numbers are just fine for rookies.
Askew was overrated. But it was Calipari's decision to give him major minutes in every game. Cutting his minutes alone probably would have won them several more games.
Sarr and Mintz...very solid players with a lot of experience. Boston and Jackson...very talented. Brooks and Toppin...talented players. Allen's a good shooter and Calipari refused to play him, despite badly needing a shooter. Clarke missed a lot of the season but they lost 7 of the 8 games he played in.
No one's saying that they should have won it all. We're saying they should have won a lot more than 9 games.
And he doesn't deserve extra credit this year because he blew it last year.
That's true, he gets credit for completely overhauling everything from the ground up (starting with staff), and has now made the biggest turn around in NCAA history.
Iowa St's not a great comparison. They're among the highest in the nation in Quad 1 wins. They beat some good teams in the non-con and they've beaten some good teams in the Big 12.
Do you think if your sales numbers fell off a cliff for a year, and then returned to where they're expected to be, that your boss would reward you?
The online fans bitch plenty. A few fools even want to move on. And he's two years removed from having the best team in the country, with a solid top 10 team currently and a nice recruiting class for next year.
What's funny?Thanks for the laugh!
So you actually think they weren't talented enough to have a decent record?
They hadn't lost in months and were #1 in every rating system, and by a wide margin in most. But sure, let's give someone else the title of best.
Who knows if we beat Kansas but I loved our team and the way they were playing when everything stopped.
You're all over the place dude. That team sucked. They were poorly constructed, and the PG didn't live up to his ranking that you have based your argument on. You think Cal forgot how to coach from 2019-20 to 2020-21? Duke was 13-11; let's hear your thoughts on K and that team.
I'm not all over the place at all. When's the last time a team with that much talent (however you want to define it) finished several games under .500?
Poor roster construction and an overrated PG is an excuse for a mediocre year. Not a terrible year.
I'd go with the one who set the record on most games won in a single season, like I said, best team doesn't win.
No reason to crown one in a hypothetical scenario.
Is that the same team that beat Kansas (the #2 seed that year) by 1000? The same Kansas team that was woefully undercoached and lost to Wichita State in the first weekend?
I think it was just less than 1000, but pretty close.
I think it's still Self's worst lose ever. Not sure about KU. Maybe.
Have they been beat by more since?
You mean all that "talent" that didn't have a single member on the year end All SEC team, first or second team? Yea, checks out.
I never get the "all that talent" diss. Doesn't their coach recruit and fail with less talent?
"If my coach could recruit like your coach, he'd win it every year"?
"If my coach could recruit like your coach, he'd win it every year"?
Exactly my point. He either has no idea what he's talking about or just hates UK so badly that it blinds him. And when Davion Mintz is your best player, you end up with a 9 win season. He glossed over the fact that Askew proved he was horrible at a different school and Clarke didn't play.
Self's had enough talent to win the Big 12 constantly but not do shit in the NCAA. Coach K has 2 Final fours in the past 17 years.
WTF? You'll crown a team that actually played and failed, but not the team that didn't get the opportunity. Okay then. 🤣
Pretty funny that you object to calling KU the best team in 2020 while anointing Kentucky the best of 2015.
Yeah, you usually have to play for a winner or put up insane numbers to earn those awards. Again, asking for more than 9 wins isn't asking a lot here.
I like how you're trying to spin common sense into something controversial.
No, I admitted that Askew sucked. But that's one player. Why was he on the court so much?
Clarke played in 8 games and they lost 7 of them.
A 2 seed that wasn't healthy and lost to a team ranked one spot below them on Kenpom = "woefully undercoached"
9-win Kentucky? Just didn't have the horses needed to hit double digits. 🤣
come on now. san francisco has 1 win against a power 5 team. 1 point win against 8th place, 14-16 arizona state. a win at san francisco is not the same as a win at virginia, alabama, michigan or west virginia. Those are all middle of the pack power 5 teams and i guarantee teams like Kentucky, Kansas, Duke etc would have a much easier time winning at san francisco than the above mentioned.
We definitely should've won more than 9 games last year. We were in a lot of close games. Just didn't have anyone to make a big time shot or a competent PG to make a winning play. Our kenpom luck rating was 354. That's nearly dead last.
Also, if you watched UK last year and came away thinking BJ Boston was "very talented" you are braindead. Made terrible plays and took terrible shots. He did nothing well. Cal should've benched Askew and Boston, but he didn't really have anyone to bench them for. I guess Dontaie could've gotten more minutes but he hasn't proven himself worthy of playing time. Dude's shooting 18% from three and can't guard a fencepost.
I wouldn't give him COTY but Cal has done a fabulous job this year. Anyone saying otherwise is just a Cal hater.
Also, if you watched UK last year and came away thinking BJ Boston was "very talented" you are braindead. Made terrible plays and took terrible shots. He did nothing well. Cal should've benched Askew and Boston, but he didn't really have anyone to bench them for. I guess Dontaie could've gotten more minutes but he hasn't proven himself worthy of playing time. Dude's shooting 18% from three and can't guard a fencepost.
I wouldn't give him COTY but Cal has done a fabulous job this year. Anyone saying otherwise is just a Cal hater.
