ASK A REFEREE; BRING YOUR QUESTIONABLE WHISTLE HERE

[imajericho]

Wow.....Not sure WTF happened there. Right it front of the official. I mean,am I missing something? TO answer your question, thats a punch. And had NE coach wanted that looked at, in all likelihood, he gets ejected. ANY type of punch is automatic ejection..

That's how I feel. Am I missing something? It looks blatant and no one even acknowledged it. And, UNC fans all around me are saying it was justified or a normal post play or etc... and... I am like... are we watching the same thing?

Mind is a bit blown by it.

 

[coryfly]

Yeah, wasn't justified. Like I said, I noticed it in real time and it looked like he was just knocking the guys hand off, which is why it wouldn't have bothered me. But that definitely was something else. Weird for a guy like Brooks.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Is your wife typing for you?

Huh?

 

[IUfanBorden]

You said the rules as you understood them call it a charge. That seems pretty straight forward.

JFC.........

To me, if my call---Its a block. Offensive player has started his upward movement...I hate calling charges with a secondary defender...

BUT....By rule, and how its written, it is a charge. Defender has established a legal guarding position BEFORE the player has become airborne. What is needed is for the language to change---As in, "If in the judgement of the officvial, offesive player has began his shooting motion, and defense(secondary) is not legal---its a block. Not sure why its NOT written that way, because when determing a shooting/non-shooting foul, we do so by determining if offense has started his shooting motion.. Which IS----gathering, and bringing thre ball up, in a movement of shooting. Which is exactly what Brooks was doing. And here is the thing---When evaluated/graded---if you call that a block, its wrong.

In fairness to the official, he called the play as the rules are written.

AS the rule is written, it is a charge....BUT, how the rule is written in determining shooting, etc, etc....contradicts the other. Read both parts I have in BOLD. I know you are from Tenn and all---with reading and education not being much of a priority, so I am trying to be patient here. But you are starting to become fuking annoying.

 

[IUfanBorden]

That's how I feel. Am I missing something? It looks blatant and no one even acknowledged it. And, UNC fans all around me are saying it was justified or a normal post play or etc... and... I am like... are we watching the same thing?

Mind is a bit blown by it.

Easy answer---Not a basketball play. Should have been an F1---possibly F2.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Why announcers need to shut up...

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Refs should have to wear body cameras.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

View embedded media

Why announcers need to shut up...

Is grabbing the arm and holding a foul? I know it is in football.

 

[IUfanBorden]

ANother gem by the announcers....

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I went to a ref gangbang and ended up with the announcers. Their seven second delay were a little off.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Is grabbing the arm and holding a foul? I know it is in football.

According to Dakich, its "basketball".... 🤣

 

[IUfanBorden]

I went to a ref gangbang and ended up with the announcers. Their seven second delay were a little off.

Announcers are "catchers"...

 

[lurkeraspect84]

View embedded media

ANother gem by the announcers....

So if a young guy wanted to get into reffin. How would he go about it? I assume there's like flash guard test, nomenclature, live drills, etc. But do you pay to join and then it's ok to start earning?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

According to Dakich, its "basketball".... 🤣

You wouldn't want him as the IU coach?

 

[della]

JFC.........

AS the rule is written, it is a charge....BUT, how the rule is written in determining shooting, etc, etc....contradicts the other. Read both parts I have in BOLD. I know you are from Tenn and all---with reading and education not being much of a priority, so I am trying to be patient here. But you are starting to become fuking annoying.

More condescending shit from you. If you were not so arrogant and full of conceit, it would serve you better in life.

You being a Ref is not a defense of a statement, regardless if you say it over and over again.. You answering the question directly without deflection was all that was called for. If you reread my first few posts, I never called you anything negative or made fun of you. I only wanted you to give me a clarification as to why something "as written" would not be enough to override what was clearly written. But, you got all defensive and started lashing out with smart ass bs.

How hard would it have been for you to answer directly? Apparently too hard for you because you moved all over the game of basketball with technical fouls and other bs.

Let me show you how you would do it:

Borden- "It's clearly written like this, but I'd call it that"
della- "Why if it is written like that, that seems pretty definitive?"
Borden- Even though it is written like this, rule "B" says, blah blah and there is the contradiction, thus it comes down to degrees and subjective judgement.

or you could have admitting to not communicating the original though as well as you could have.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Let me show you how you would do it:

Borden- "It's clearly written like this, but I'd call it that"
della- "Why if it is written like that, that seems pretty definitive?"
Borden- Even though it is written like this, rule "B" says, blah blah and there is the contradiction, thus it comes down to degrees and subjective judgement.

or you could have admitting to not communicating the original though as well as you could have.

Holy mother of basketball.....I explained just that(BOLD), in my original post...Here, AGAIN, I will show you....

To me, if my call---Its a block. Offensive player has started his upward movement...I hate calling charges with a secondary defender...

BUT....By rule, and how its written, it is a charge. Defender has established a legal guarding position BEFORE the player has become airborne. What is needed is for the language to change---As in, "If in the judgement of the officvial, offesive player has began his shooting motion, and defense(secondary) is not legal---its a block. Not sure why its NOT written that way, because when determing a shooting/non-shooting foul, we do so by determining if offense has started his shooting motion.. Which IS----gathering, and bringing thre ball up, in a movement of shooting. Which is exactly what Brooks was doing. And here is the thing---When evaluated/graded---if you call that a block, its wrong.

In fairness to the official, he called the play as the rules are written.

So you see Della----I did give a "Rule B, blah,blha,blah" example. Apparently you didn't read that far.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Borden- "It's clearly written like this, but I'd call it that"
della- "Why if it is written like that, that seems pretty definitive?"
Borden- Even though it is written like this, rule "B" says, blah blah and there is the contradiction, thus it comes down to degrees and subjective judgement.

or you could have admitting to not communicating the original though as well as you could have.

I can go into MORE detail if you like? But me calling that a block isn't disregarding the rules. Its me making a judgement based on the multiple rules at my disposal.

Again---Another example of "Rule B, blah, blah, blah....."

I mean sweetheart---How many fuking different ways you want me to answer?

 

[della]

Again---Another example of "Rule B, blah, blah, blah....."

I mean sweetheart---How many fuking different ways you want me to answer?

I wanted a direct answer hold all the other stuff. My question was concise. Your answer should have been concise. Instead you started going on about technical fouls, Tennessee and Barnes and even questioned me on why I didn't engage that.

You have told me what is needed IYO, but I only asked for the rule that contradicts the original rule. I didn't see a rule that contradicts in what you bolded and still don't.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I wanted a direct answer hold all the other stuff. My question was concise. Your answer should have been concise. Instead you started going on about technical fouls, Tennessee and Barnes and even questioned me on why I didn't engage that.

You have told me what is needed IYO, but I only asked for the rule that contradicts the original rule. I didn't see a rule that contradicts in what you bolded and still don't.

When a player begins his shooting motion, he is considered a SHOOTER, and is considered so until he returns to the floor...You cannot draw a charge w/o estbalishing legal position BEFORE this. In the video, stop it at 4seconds....You will see that Brooks has stopped his dribble, and is brining the ball up--Hence starting his shot. THe player is not at this point in a legal guarding position... BUT the rule also reads you cannot move under an airborne shooter----Which he did not do. One rule protects an airborne shooter, but at the same time, contradicts the other... Brooks had not left the floor, when defense slid over to take charge....All of this is with a secondary defender, mostly.

That is where the rule becomes gray---it crosses over. It needs to be rewritten.

You could have asked----Instead of insinuating I choose and pick my own rules...Its why I asked you about the "coaching box". After all, you said rules are the rules....Officials enforce them. Just curious if picking and choosing to enforce that rule, was the same as the above.

 

[della]

When a player begins his shooting motion, he is considered a SHOOTER, and is considered so until he returns to the floor...You cannot draw a charge w/o estbalishing legal position BEFORE this. In the video, stop it at 4seconds....You will see that Brooks has stopped his dribble, and is brining the ball up--Hence starting his shot. THe player is not at this point in a legal guarding position... BUT the rule also reads you cannot move under an airborne shooter----Which he did not do. One rule protects an airborne shooter, but at the same time, contradicts the other... Brooks had not left the floor, when defense slid over to take charge....All of this is with a secondary defender, mostly.

That is where the rule becomes gray---it crosses over. It needs to be rewritten.

You could have asked----Instead of insinuating I choose and pick my own rules...Its why I asked you about the "coaching box". After all, you said rules are the rules....Officials enforce them. Just curious if picking and choosing to enforce that rule, was the same as the above.

I did just ask and did not insinuate.
You said you would call a play different than the rules and then asked me why a ref shouldn't.
Then I responded about the rules only being enforced by the Refs.

I don't think any of that was unreasonable on my part.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I did just ask and did not insinuate.
You said you would call a play different than the rules and then asked me why a ref shouldn't.
Then I responded about the rules only being enforced by the Refs.

I don't think any of that was unreasonable on my part.

So, you are saying you would call play different than the rules call for.

No, you didn't ask. This was your first post...Which told me you either did not read the entire post---Or didn't understand....So instead of asking why----you simply insinuated I pick and choose.

You took my "Sure, why not"---Literally? Ok.

Never said anything was unreasonable...

 

[della]

No, you didn't ask. This was your first post...Which told me you either did not read the entire post---Or didn't understand....So instead of asking why----you simply insinuated I pick and choose.

You took my "Sure, why not"---Literally? Ok.

Never said anything was unreasonable...

I did take your statement literally. Why would I not, it was a direct question? So, I restated your position and gave you the opportunity to clarify.

 

[imajericho]

When a player begins his shooting motion, he is considered a SHOOTER, and is considered so until he returns to the floor...You cannot draw a charge w/o estbalishing legal position BEFORE this. In the video, stop it at 4seconds....You will see that Brooks has stopped his dribble, and is brining the ball up--Hence starting his shot. THe player is not at this point in a legal guarding position... BUT the rule also reads you cannot move under an airborne shooter----Which he did not do. One rule protects an airborne shooter, but at the same time, contradicts the other... Brooks had not left the floor, when defense slid over to take charge....All of this is with a secondary defender, mostly.

That is where the rule becomes gray---it crosses over. It needs to be rewritten.

You could have asked----Instead of insinuating I choose and pick my own rules...Its why I asked you about the "coaching box". After all, you said rules are the rules....Officials enforce them. Just curious if picking and choosing to enforce that rule, was the same as the above.

Why is this a contradiction? I don't see the contradiction?

If he isn't in legal guarding position when he starts to shoot, it is a block.

He also cannot slide in under an air borne shooter.

If anything it is redundant moreso than contradictory.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Why is this a contradiction? I don't see the contradiction?

If he isn't in legal guarding position when he starts to shoot, it is a block.

He also cannot slide in under an air borne shooter.

If anything it is redundant moreso than contradictory.

Its contradictory b/c one rule is protecting an AIR borne shooter, the other, just a shooter. There is a difference. Its very confusing in the case books,and we have talked about the language needing changed for a long, long time.. Also how it deals with a primary defender/secondary defender, and while on the break. The block/charge is difficult b/c the case books are difficult. Personally, on a play like the one with Brooks, and that bang/bang, I hate calling a charge---And rarely do. I think calling a charge in that scenario is punishing an athletic, scoring play---and rewarding a dude basically just getting in the way(so to speak).

 

[IUfanBorden]

I did take your statement literally. Why would I not, it was a direct question? So, I restated your position and gave you the opportunity to clarify.

I did not expect you to take a , "sure, why not" seriously. Next time I need to take advantage of the emoji...

My apologies.

Good luck today vs UK.

 

[fluoxetine]

YOu ain't gonna like this response---But maybe you will. I dunno.

1. I cannot think of any official that is intimidated by coaches, players, fans, or the conference. And certainly not the media. I couldn't give two ****s what someone in the media thinks---Or Billy Bob sitting in the front row...

I'm sure this is true consciously. But there have been countless studies showing some bias in officiating towards home teams in basically every sport. How do you explain that if not by some desire to things that are liked by the home crowd?


Anyway, I have a couple questions that are not about specific calls:
- Do you guys watch "film" on your own games (i.e. watch games back and reevaluate your own calls). If yes, how often do you feel you got a call wrong when you watch it again?

- Do you feel basketball is more difficult to officiate than other sports? (Not that you've officiated other sports, but I guess you could still have an opinion.) There are a ton of guys on the Rutgers board who are basically convinced there is a referee conspiracy against Rutgers, and my personal feeling is that the reason so many basketball fans in general feel this way is because there are just SO MANY judgement calls in basketball where either team has the opportunity to feel like they are getting screwed

 

[IUfanBorden]

I'm sure this is true consciously. But there have been countless studies showing some bias in officiating towards home teams in basically every sport. How do you explain that if not by some desire to things that are liked by the home crowd?


Anyway, I have a couple questions that are not about specific calls:
- Do you guys watch "film" on your own games (i.e. watch games back and reevaluate your own calls). If yes, how often do you feel you got a call wrong when you watch it again?

- Do you feel basketball is more difficult to officiate than other sports? (Not that you've officiated other sports, but I guess you could still have an opinion.) There are a ton of guys on the Rutgers board who are basically convinced there is a referee conspiracy against Rutgers, and my personal feeling is that the reason so many basketball fans in general feel this way is because there are just SO MANY judgement calls in basketball where either team has the opportunity to feel like they are getting screwed

TBH, I think its almost impossible to make a call, with any intent involved...Plays happen so fast that you don't have time---or probably the ability---to register---"OK, I owe them one here." No as you say, possibly subconciously this happens--or could. Probably does. I'm simply going off MY experience. If I have a tough call or two, go against the home team-----I am aware of that. I am aware of the coach crwaling up my ass----and aware of the 15,000 people booing me, etc, etc...Then next trip , there's a banger of a call, goes hme teams way---and now we have a "make-up" call....Meh. I'm not a big believer in that. Shit happens so fast , its almost impossible for your brain to process what just happened, and at the same time go---"BTW Borden, you owe these guys".

Yes we watch film. Sometimes we do so at halftime, if the technolgy is available. I have tons of games saved to my computer, and ask for tape of every HS I do. For calls missed---I mean you do not like it. And through film, can maybe see why you missed it, i.e. bad position, etc, etc...Or maybe you simply anticipated. As for how I feel? I mean , I don't like it. Especially if it was a late game call, that impacted the game...You hate that. But at the same time, you move on. Learn from it. I had a HS game the other night , and watched the film this morning. Two travel calls I made were, well, they were just bad. No idea what the fuk I was thinking...You just "eat it", move on.

Basketball IMO is by far the hardest sport to officiate. I do college baseball as well---And compared to basketball, thats a walk in park. THe speed, the area, the abilities of the players---in a confined area, where contact is inevitable, and yet you gotta decide what is ok/not ok, and do so in a split second...Dats tuff.

Your statement of "so many judgement calls" is very spot on. And it can certainly look like a team is getting the screws---And maybe at times, they are...I dunno. Impossible for me to speak for 1,000+ basketball officials.

 

[IUfanBorden]

BTW---Always fun to arrive to a game, hour and a half early.... 🤣

 

[toonces11]

Borden, review the no call on lebrons offensive foul tonight and then the defensive foul he drew while initiating all contact and flopping tonight. How would the ref staring right at it not get the calls right.....if there was actually integrity involved.

 

[TechFan88]

Can you review the TTU vs Oklahoma State game? Maybe just the technical or the step out by OSU that wasn't? Just any bit of that abomination.

I want to not hate basketball officials but they make it so hard.

 

[Villian07]

I thought the Benson kid for txtech should have been awarded a charge instead of a block late. His big ass also should have hammered in OT instead of getting his “finger roll” double blocked, but whatever I had no rooting interest.

my biggest pet peeve were always plays like that one, where the offensive player drives wildly into the lane with no chance of making any kind of shot, just flailing into people trying to get a foul call. I feel like players should never get a call if all they are doing is looking for a call.

And I’ve never officiated anything besides little league baseball, but I have to believe officiating football would be just as hard as basketball. Mainly bc of the same reasons, so many judgement calls. Like holding, they could call it every play if they wanted, same for defensive/offensive PI. Plus the speed would be there, but more players. At least they get lots of breaks in Between plays though and don’t have to run up and down the court with the players. But that’s neither here nor there just my opinion.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Can you review the TTU vs Oklahoma State game? Maybe just the technical or the step out by OSU that wasn't? Just any bit of that abomination.

I want to not hate basketball officials but they make it so hard.

Here's some advice---Don't blame the officials for losing. Go watch a game in which you have no rooting interest...I am curious how you then would view how the game was called? Here is the thing---You gave me 2 examples of what you feel were bad/questinable calls---Right?

Ok---What about the other 35 calls?

Point is----there are probably 30/40 calls per game, that are judgement(fouls especially). But we only talk about the 4/5 that in our minds were terrible---and possibly were. Ok.

But what abut the other 30+ calls?

Also, post what it is you want me to look at....No idea what you are talking about.

 

[RunninRichie]

Is your wife typing for you?

respect the avatar, brotein shake. your future is so bright we can’t even see your eyes! Hell, you’re so cool snow storms follow you around!

 

[RunninRichie]

Here's some advice---Don't blame the officials for losing. Go watch a game in which you have no rooting interest...I am curious how you then would view how the game was called? Here is the thing---You gave me 2 examples of what you feel were bad/questinable calls---Right?

Ok---What about the other 35 calls?

Point is----there are probably 30/40 calls per game, that are judgement(fouls especially). But we only talk about the 4/5 that in our minds were terrible---and possibly were. Ok.

But what abut the other 30+ calls?

Also, post what it is you want me to look at....No idea what you are talking about.

2017 UK-UNC would like to have a word with you.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I thought the Benson kid for txtech should have been awarded a charge instead of a block late. His big ass also should have hammered in OT instead of getting his “finger roll” double blocked, but whatever I had no rooting interest.

my biggest pet peeve were always plays like that one, where the offensive player drives wildly into the lane with no chance of making any kind of shot, just flailing into people trying to get a foul call. I feel like players should never get a call if all they are doing is looking for a call.

And I’ve never officiated anything besides little league baseball, but I have to believe officiating football would be just as hard as basketball. Mainly bc of the same reasons, so many judgement calls. Like holding, they could call it every play if they wanted, same for defensive/offensive PI. Plus the speed would be there, but more players. At least they get lots of breaks in Between plays though and don’t have to run up and down the court with the players. But that’s neither here nor there just my opinion.

Football is played on a much larger area of play....And there are like what---82 officials? Line judge...back judge....side jusdge...white hat...black hat....middle of the field judge.....etc, etc....I mean, ****.

I agree on not "bailing dudes" out that are seeking contact, and/or out of control...BUT, again, gotta be careful. Especially on the guy who is "out of control" so to speak. Just b/c you tried to do something your unathletic ass wasn't capable of diiung, doesn't mean you cannot get fouled.

 

[IUfanBorden]

2017 UK-UNC would like to have a word with you.

Like I said---watch a game you have no rooting interest in. There is nothing I can say that will evermake you believe UNC won that game....SO I ain't even gonna try. BUt....Here's some advice. Don't go 5+ minutes without scoring after taking a 5 point lead, with 5:50 to play----That might help.

 

[rockycard]

respect the avatar, brotein shake. your future is so bright we can’t even see your eyes! Hell, you’re so cool snow storms follow you around!

Wut?

 

[Random UK Fan]

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

From a couple years ago. Team with the ball up 1 with 10 seconds left. They break the press and score. But wait..... the trail ref calls a travel. Up 1 they have a foul to give and try to give it and the refs call intentional foul. Two free throws. Kid sinks

Travel or not?

 

[IUfanBorden]

From a couple years ago. Team with the ball up 1 with 10 seconds left. They break the press and score. But wait..... the trail ref calls a travel. Up 1 they have a foul to give and try to give it and the refs call intentional foul. Two free throws. Kid sinks

Travel or not?

View embedded media

View embedded media

The travel looks legit. I watched it a few times. Seems when he caught the ball, his right foot is his pivot..Steps with left, then right again, with no dribble.

Intentional foul call was tough....Not sure I call that. It was hard to see though. But from what I did see, looked like a time to just call a comon foul. Calling intentional pretty much eneded the game.