ASK A REFEREE; BRING YOUR QUESTIONABLE WHISTLE HERE

[Random UK Fan]

Thought the board could use a spot where fans could bring “bad calls” to our beloved resident referee @IUfanBorden, who as many of us know, is an actual college referee and is now on retainer here. He can confirm whether the ref that blew the whistle did indeed have his head up his ass and overturn it - or if it’s YOU who has their head up their ass and confirm the call.

Welp, let’s get it poppin’.

Case #1 . . . What do you think, Borden . . . Confirmed or overturned?

 

[RR30]

Nothing college basketball refs love more than being able to do their stupid fvcking charge dance. That shit ain't defense and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[imajericho]

5:58 of the UNC Northeastern game on ESPN replag. Should Garrison Brooks have been ejected? No one even mentions this at any point, no foul was called, no nothing. However, I think I am seeing a questionable play that I am not very happy about from my player.

 

[Villian07]

Thought the board could use a spot where fans could bring “bad calls” to our beloved resident referee @IUfanBorden, who as many of us know, is an actual college referee and is now on retainer here. He can confirm whether the ref that blew the whistle did indeed have his head up his ass and overturn it - or if it’s YOU who has their head up their ass and confirm the call.

Welp, let’s get it poppin’.

Case #1 . . . What do you think, Borden . . . Confirmed or overturned?

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Not a ref but that’s a textbook charge. Feet not moving, outside the arc. Beat brooks to the spot.

GD what a play by Brooks though. I think they should change the rule that if u dunk the ball it can’t be a charge regardless.

Chane Behanan hammered on a little dude from DePaul a few years ago off a steal from the press and he literally kneed dude in the chest, sent him flying and hammered the ball home. Was also called for a charge lol.

 

[Villian07]

5:58 of the UNC Northeastern game on ESPN replag. Should Garrison Brooks have been ejected? No one even mentions this at any point, no foul was called, no nothing. However, I think I am seeing a questionable play that I am not very happy about from my player.

What happened. No offense but I doubt many outside of unc fans watched the unc-northeastern game.

 

[Villian07]

What part of that play makes you think it shouldn’t be a charge, besides the fact he completed the dunk.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Not a ref but that’s a textbook charge. Feet not moving, outside the arc. Beat brooks to the spot.

GD what a play by Brooks though. I think they should change the rule that if u dunk the ball it can’t be a charge regardless.

Pretty sure that's how it's enforced in the NBA based on the games and highlights I've watched............

 

[Random UK Fan]

What part of that play makes you think it shouldn’t be a charge, besides the fact he completed the dunk.

I don’t have a thought on it either way, really. I didn’t watch the game, but if I had to be suspect about anything, his heels are up, which to me shows movement/not planted.

I’m ambivilant.

 

[dukedevilz]

Here's a suggestion for a new rule: If you get dunked on, it is NEVER a charge.

 

[coryfly]

5:58 of the UNC Northeastern game on ESPN replag. Should Garrison Brooks have been ejected? No one even mentions this at any point, no foul was called, no nothing. However, I think I am seeing a questionable play that I am not very happy about from my player.

For chopping the guys arm? Think he did it on purpose to bring attention to all the holding. Seems like a massive exaggeration to think that was that bad a play, lol.

 

[coryfly]

I think charges should be eliminated. Offensive fouls for push offs and screen and stuff like that should still be called but just either call a block or nothing. That would help.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Thought the board could use a spot where fans could bring “bad calls” to our beloved resident referee @IUfanBorden, who as many of us know, is an actual college referee and is now on retainer here. He can confirm whether the ref that blew the whistle did indeed have his head up his ass and overturn it - or if it’s YOU who has their head up their ass and confirm the call.

Welp, let’s get it poppin’.

Case #1 . . . What do you think, Borden . . . Confirmed or overturned?

View embedded media

To me, if my call---Its a block. Offensive player has started his upward movement...I hate calling charges with a secondary defender...

BUT....By rule, and how its written, it is a charge. Defender has established a legal guarding position BEFORE the player has become airborne. What is needed is for the language to change---As in, "If in the judgement of the officvial, offesive player has began his shooting motion, and defense(secondary) is not legal---its a block. Not sure why its NOT written that way, because when determing a shooting/non-shooting foul, we do so by determining if offense has started his shooting motion.. Which IS----gathering, and bringing thre ball up, in a movement of shooting. Which is exactly what Brooks was doing. And here is the thing---When evaluated/graded---if you call that a block, its wrong.

In fairness to the official, he called the play as the rules are written.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Not a ref but that’s a textbook charge. Feet not moving, outside the arc. Beat brooks to the spot.

95% of the times, this is irrelevant. People think because you are moving, you cannot draw a charge. You can. You can move side to side, or backwards---but not into the offense.

By rule, its a charge. But it needs changed. Brooks had started his shooting motion, and was on his way up, as the defender was getting to the spot. BY RULE, and by the language, it is a charge, YES. But it needs changed. The contact had more of impact on the offense, than it did the defense, and tehre was absolutely NO advantage gained.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I don’t have a thought on it either way, really. I didn’t watch the game, but if I had to be suspect about anything, his heels are up, which to me shows movement/not planted.

I’m ambivilant.

Againm a huge myth, i.e. the hand is part of the bat(baseball). No, the hand is part of the wrist. You can be moving and still draw a charge as long as,

A) You have established a legal guarding position
B) You DO NOT move INTO the offensive player

If you have both of the above, you can draw a charge. Defender was legal.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I think charges should be eliminated. Offensive fouls for push offs and screen and stuff like that should still be called but just either call a block or nothing. That would help.

Would be a disaster. The charge on a secondary defender needs new language, tweaked. But if you eliminate the charge for the primary defender, you are gonna have alley ball.

 

[IUfanBorden]

5:58 of the UNC Northeastern game on ESPN replag. Should Garrison Brooks have been ejected? No one even mentions this at any point, no foul was called, no nothing. However, I think I am seeing a questionable play that I am not very happy about from my player.

What happened?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

The rule that the player can jump into a position while a shooter is in motion then flop and get a charge is stupid.

But this is a worse charge call.

 

[IUfanBorden]

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This is one of the biggest reason officiating is viewed as it is: Dudes like Jones making comments like this...The official called the play EXACTLY how the rule is written. He's not making shit up. Going rogue. Its how the rule is, and how its defined in NCAA case books.

Announcers, radio host, and wanna be Governors(JOnes), need to educate themselves...99% of the time, they are dead ass , wrong.

BTW---Officiating today is not worse than 10, 20 years ago...Matter of fact, its better. Technology has given fans, media, etc, etc...access they did not have 10, 15 or 30 years ago, I assure you, if the technolgy today, existed 20 years ago, i.e. "the good old days", you would be amazed.

 

[IUfanBorden]

The rule that the player can jump into a position while a shooter is in motion then flop and get a charge is stupid.

But this is a worse charge call.

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That call is just plum awful...No idea what Larry saw there. But I guarantee when he saw that on film, he was like---Yikes.

 

[della]

To me, if my call---Its a block.

BUT....By rule, and how its written, it is a charge.

In fairness to the official, he called the play as the rules are written.

So, you are saying you would call play different than the rules call for.

 

[toonces11]

Thought the board could use a spot where fans could bring “bad calls” to our beloved resident referee @IUfanBorden, who as many of us know, is an actual college referee and is now on retainer here. He can confirm whether the ref that blew the whistle did indeed have his head up his ass and overturn it - or if it’s YOU who has their head up their ass and confirm the call.

Welp, let’s get it poppin’.

Case #1 . . . What do you think, Borden . . . Confirmed or overturned?

View embedded media

This should be your classic "no call".

 

[IUfanBorden]

So, you are saying you would call play different than the rules call for.

Sure---Why not.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

So, you are saying you would call play different than the rules call for.

You're high as a kite if you think rules are followed to the T and/or that it would be good for the game if they were.

There would be 50 travels a game and probably twice as many carries. Every time a player catches a ball and hops to get set is by rule a travel. Thankfully refs aren't bots.

 

[IUfanBorden]

This should be your classic "no call".

Meh....Maybe. But here is the problem---Ton of contact. Contact that IMO has no impact. BUT....letting that go opens up a can of worms. Whern the contact is that violent, so to speak, you have to get something. If not, it makes it awful difficult to justify something less, well, "violent".

 

[della]

Sure---Why not.

Because it's against the rules and Refs don't make the rules, they just enforce them.

 

[IUfanBorden]

You're high as a kite if you think rules are followed to the T and/or that it would be good for the game if it was.

There would be 50 travels a game and probably twice as many carries. Every time a player catches a ball and hops to get set is by rule a travel. Thankfully refs aren't bots.

Yeah, this....As an official, we could call travels, illegal screens, holds, pushes, etc, etc...every time down the floor. I was pointing out that BY RULE, how its written, it was a charge. BUT, as an official, you are given the opportunity to use your judgement..

I would have called it a block---If Jerry asked why---simple: "Look Stack, I felt Brooks was on his way up, started his shot, and your guy was late..." But Borden, he was legal.. Possibly...But so was Brooks. Legal move to the goal, his offensive move didn't create the contact, and the contact didn't create an advantage for him(Brooks). Maybe a play on coach, but you know we cannot let that type of collision go....

But.....

Naaaah, Jerry. I gave yo my explanantion. Time to move on.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Because it's against the rules and Refs don't make the rules, they just enforce them.

Sure thing...Its also aganst the rules to get out of the coaches box....Shall I call two techs in the first 40 seocnds, and eject your coach?

 

[della]

You're high as a kite if you think rules are followed to the T and/or that it would be good for the game if they were.

There would be 50 travels a game and probably twice as many carries. Every time a player catches a ball and hops to get set is by rule a travel. Thankfully refs aren't bots.

I'm just asking a question.

 

[della]

Sure thing...Its also aganst the rules to get out of the coaches box....Shall I call two techs in the first 40 seocnds, and eject your coach?

So, you're saying that reffing a game is subjective.

 

[IUfanBorden]

So, you're saying that reffing a game is subjective.

Its judgement..Its subjective...I mean you ain't exactly breaking the Da Vinci code here with this "observation".

Again, answer my question---Should I call a tech on the HC for being out the box? Regardless if all he is doing is coaching?

Should i call a tech on the assistant for standing up, protesting a call?

Should I give a delay of game warning for a kid having his shirt untucked?

Shall I go on?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Sure thing...Its also aganst the rules to get out of the coaches box....Shall I call two techs in the first 40 seocnds, and eject your coach?

 

[della]

Its judgement..Its subjective...I mean you ain't exactly breaking the Da Vinci code here with this "observation".

Again, answer my question---Should I call a tech on the HC for being out the box? Regardless if all he is doing is coaching?

Should i call a tech on the assistant for standing up, protesting a call?

Should I give a delay of game warning for a kid having his shirt untucked?

Shall I go on?

You just said, you understand a rule to mean one thing, but you would choose to call it completely opposite. That is different than a "no call", right?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Because it's against the rules and Refs don't make the rules, they just enforce them.

It should be refs enforce the rules (more) and players adjust, not the other way around.

Unfortunately, too many are intimidated/influenced by the speed of the game, angry coaches/players, and also pressure from conferences (whatever governing body) to perform to whatever standards is expected of them to appease the masses (i.e. the coaches, players, general public etc)........even though they'll never actually admit to this, even on this message board.

And thus, you get 1st halves filled with ticky tack fouls, and a looser game in the 2nd half (until the end), or vice versa with a loose 1st half.....and an ENTIRE 2nd half of ticky tack fouls with NO calls in the final minute because "let the players play amirite?...."

But I'll forgive our resident referee for sticking up for his comrades.......

 

[IUfanBorden]

You just said, you understand a rule to mean one thing, but you would choose to call it completely opposite. That is different than a "no call", right?

Why do you do this? I mean, seriously? Why the attempt to patronize me? I mean if you'd like, I could answer the question, via the rules, and be right.....to an extent. Would that make you happy?

I doubt you even understand the reasoning, criteria of what a "no call is". That collison isn't one of them.

I have officiated D1 basketball for a long time, Della. You really think you have much of a chance to tip me up, on my words? I mean, that is what you are trying to do.

Again---Mrs, "Play by the rules"---Next time I'm at Tenn, and Barnes gets out the box---should I banged him with a technical? And we he asked, "are you serious?" I will say---"Hey, Dellla said..............

 

[Random UK Fan]

Next time I'm at Tenn, and Barnes gets out the box---should I banged him with a technical? And we he asked, "are you serious?" I will say---"Hey, Dellla said..............

 

[IUfanBorden]

It should be refs enforce the rules (more) and players adjust, not the other way around.

Unfortunately, too many are intimidated/influenced by the speed of the game, angry coaches/players, and also pressure from conferences (whatever governing body) to perform to whatever standards is expected of them to appease the masses (i.e. the coaches, players, general public etc)........even though they'll never actually admit to this, even on this message board.

And thus, you get 1st halves filled with ticky tack fouls, and a looser game in the 2nd half (until the end), or vice versa with a loose 1st half.....and an ENTIRE 2nd half of ticky tack fouls with NO calls in the final minute because "let the players play amirite?...."

But I'll forgive our resident referee for sticking up for his comrades.......

YOu ain't gonna like this response---But maybe you will. I dunno.

1. I cannot think of any official that is intimidated by coaches, players, fans, or the conference. And certainly not the media. I couldn't give two ****s what someone in the media thinks---Or Billy Bob sitting in the front row...

2. Ticky-tak fouls is a phrase used that, well, I laugh at. I mean sure sometimes that exist---but for the most part, not really. Not all contact is the same; I have said this a milion times. So it shouldn't be treated the same. Some contact is simply a foul, no matter how minimal, b/c of how the rules are wriiten, i.e. Cylinder rule, freedom of movement, allowing a shooter to return to the floor, etc, etc...Or a hand check...arm bar(when legal/when not).. Most of those fouls have very little contact...But that doesn't mean they are not fouls...Nowhere in the rule book does it say contact has to be "this hard", to be a foul...SImply says---"ILLEGAL".

3. Half with tick-tack fouls, then a looser second half...Not really. A lot of times you will see a half with a shit load of fouls....then a second half with not as many...A lot of that is duet o the kids adjusting. And again, a lot of it is due to fans not understanding the , well, "ticky tack fouls".

I do not stick up for the officfials---I simply give an explanation. I have more than once called a spade a spade....Its a tough gig....And unless you have done it, you have no idea how hard the job is. And though I will never convince anyone----more often than not, the officials are right...

 

[della]

Why do you do this? I mean, seriously? Why the attempt to patronize me? I mean if you'd like, I could answer the question, via the rules, and be right.....to an extent. Would that make you happy?

I doubt you even understand the reasoning, criteria of what a "no call is". That collison isn't one of them.

I have officiated D1 basketball for a long time, Della. You really think you have much of a chance to tip me up, on my words? I mean, that is what you are trying to do.

Again---Mrs, "Play by the rules"---Next time I'm at Tenn, and Barnes gets out the box---should I banged him with a technical? And we he asked, "are you serious?" I will say---"Hey, Dellla said..............

I'm not patronizing you. I was being polite in my question. However, I can me more direct.
Why would you voluntarily and openly admit that you understand a rule, but would call it completely different than the meaning you clearly understand it to be?

Answer that without deflection or doubting my understanding.

 

[della]

You're going to need more than that Saturday.

 

[della]

It should be refs enforce the rules (more) and players adjust, not the other way around.

Unfortunately, too many are intimidated/influenced by the speed of the game, angry coaches/players, and also pressure from conferences (whatever governing body) to perform to whatever standards is expected of them to appease the masses (i.e. the coaches, players, general public etc)........even though they'll never actually admit to this, even on this message board.

And thus, you get 1st halves filled with ticky tack fouls, and a looser game in the 2nd half (until the end), or vice versa with a loose 1st half.....and an ENTIRE 2nd half of ticky tack fouls with NO calls in the final minute because "let the players play amirite?...."

But I'll forgive our resident referee for sticking up for his comrades.......

I'm pretty much ok as long as the refs are consistent and call it the same against both teams.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I'm pretty much ok as long as the refs are consistent and call it the same against both teams.

Right?.....