Yet you still fail to address my points. I asked you a question I figured you would be interested in but I guess I was wrong. I’ll be sure to chalk up any decent left posts from here on out as liberal bullshit.
Another school shooting
- Thread starter Quavarius
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It appears only 7 states place no restriction on late term abortions. Most states have laws saying after viability or in late term the only reason an abortion can be performed is to save the life or health of the mother.
Surprisingly the states that don't have laws restricting late term abortions aren't just super liberal states its:
Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont.
https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-policies-later-abortions
THis is a few years old now but is really good.
The most important point I think is about how many lives are lost to suicide from guns. People may argue that if you take away guns they'll find other ways to kill themselves, but those who attempt suicide by other means than a gun are much less likely to succeed. They then usually get the help they need after this cry for help.
The most important point I think is about how many lives are lost to suicide from guns. People may argue that if you take away guns they'll find other ways to kill themselves, but those who attempt suicide by other means than a gun are much less likely to succeed. They then usually get the help they need after this cry for help.
Well you asked if people actually support that.
“The abortion issue continues to divide the nation, with stronger support among women and younger voters:
- 21 percent of voters, including 28 percent of voters 18 to 34 years old, say abortion should be legal in all cases;
- 39 percent of voters, including 42 percent of 18 to 34-year-olds, say it should be legal in most cases;
- 22 percent of voters, including 18 percent of 18 to 34-year-olds, say it should be illegal in most cases;
- 12 percent of voters, including 9 percent of 18 to 34-year-olds, say it should be illegal in all cases.”
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2508
Ok well 79% of people don't and I bet if you actually asked the 21 percent of people what they thought about various situations they would realize they don't actually support it being legal in all cases. They just haven't thought about what all cases meant. Like when you ask your wife/ girlfriend where they want to eat and they say oh anywhere's fine and then you suggest something and they say oh well not there. I'm sure a lot of people in that 21% are the millennial snowflakes the far right posters on this board love to bash (and I as a self identified liberal hate as well) who are just pro abortion and haven't thought about all the possibilities and just think they're supposed to be completely pro-choice. I'd be shocked if you could find a person on earth who would be pro abortion once say the baby's head is out or the baby has crowned. I think most people could be talked backwards like that to at least a reasonable time point and we could reduce to total number of abortions that happen in this country with reasonable laws.
Now in an ideal world there would be no abortion except in the circumstances where it is required to save the mother's life. But I know that legally I cannot force my religious belief that life begins at conception onto everyone. In a more realistic world I would love to see the laws across the board say no abortions after viability except to save the life of the mother. I may be naive, but I don't believe anyone thinks it's ok to kill a human being, I just think there's disagreement about when a fetus becomes a human being and has the rights of a human being. I don't think there very small percentage of people who use abortions just to get rid of pregnancies after consensual sex that are just unwanted see that fetus as a human and are ok murdering it because they feel their right to not be inconvenienced for 9 months out weights the other human's right to life. They just don't think it counts as a human yet. I disagree, but here we are.
I live in a pretty rural, pretty conservative part of Ohio right now. Listening to people talk about the Kneeling during the national anthem protests was pretty enlightening. It was very clear that the people who were opposed to it had no idea why he was kneeling. People legitimately thought he was just doing it to disrespect the flag without any other motivation. They just spewed talking points from Fox News. There were people who were shocked when told the motivations and that it was a protest. There are a lot of uninformed people out there on both sides. Now of course there are plenty of people who do understand his motivations and still take offense. I personally do not finding the kneeling to be disrespectful.
Whild I have never served I do have many family members in the military and am an Eagle Scout, and went to school growing where we said the pledge of allegiance every day to start the day. So I think I have a healthy respect for the flag. People day in and day out disrespect the flag way worse than people kneeling in protest during the national anthem. I stand at attention with my hand on my heart like I was trained to do during the scouts. But every sporting event you go to there are hundred's of people who are on their phones, still moving around, not taking off their hats, stuffing their face, etc. I find those actions far more disrespectful. I also find things like American Flag shorts and underwear more offensive than the kneeling.
Obviously, people are entitled to their opinions and you cannot control what offends people. But you can make legitimate arguments that some positions are more reasonable than others. Conservatives like to deflect any criticism of their positions as whining by snowflakes who can't handle reality. I'd argue that those being offended by a player kneeling during the anthem to raise awareness of a legitimate issue in their country are being just as soft as the liberal snow flakes who want their safe spaces on their college campuses.
Whild I have never served I do have many family members in the military and am an Eagle Scout, and went to school growing where we said the pledge of allegiance every day to start the day. So I think I have a healthy respect for the flag. People day in and day out disrespect the flag way worse than people kneeling in protest during the national anthem. I stand at attention with my hand on my heart like I was trained to do during the scouts. But every sporting event you go to there are hundred's of people who are on their phones, still moving around, not taking off their hats, stuffing their face, etc. I find those actions far more disrespectful. I also find things like American Flag shorts and underwear more offensive than the kneeling.
Obviously, people are entitled to their opinions and you cannot control what offends people. But you can make legitimate arguments that some positions are more reasonable than others. Conservatives like to deflect any criticism of their positions as whining by snowflakes who can't handle reality. I'd argue that those being offended by a player kneeling during the anthem to raise awareness of a legitimate issue in their country are being just as soft as the liberal snow flakes who want their safe spaces on their college campuses.
I find Kaepernick's comments and his support of a murderous dictator to be more offensive than him kneeling during the anthem. People continue to give him more credit than he deserves. Yes, he is bringing awareness to an important issue in this country. But his radical comments and display of cops being pigs overshadow whatever messages he is sending.
It could also be argued that his "protest" is partially responsible for rise in police being murdered more than it is for helping a cause.
The bold is what I was talking about.
But okay, could you remind me what the questions were again? Seriously, no disrespect, I don't think they stood out as being as significant to me as they were to you.
I lived in Chicago for several years. Chicago, in general, isn’t safe when compared to other cities. Yes, some areas are better than others, but overall it’s a shithole. Illinois in general is a poorly run corrupt AF state. I lived in Lincoln Park myself, and then River North. I worked downtown for years. I know plenty about the city.
Gentrification? GTFO. Do you honestly think it would have been smart to leave Cabrini Green right in downtown? Or do you think they should have done something about the area? Lol.
You always go straight for the stupid. Makes me think you’re not trolling. Lol
Even w/ Castro, thinking people recognize his legacy is more complex than just "murderous dictator." Every U.S. President except WH Harrison, Garfield, and Trump have overseen more deaths directly and indirectly related to foreign policy than Castro ever did domestically. It's way more complex than you're letting on. I'm inclined to point that out to anyone claiming that he was a great guy, too, though in America that person is more likely to be responding to the extreme you're representing in the first place. I find it all to be an interesting intellectual and historical topic, and to some extent, Kaep broached it. It appears you'd rather go snowflake than consider something calmly and intellectually, though.
Fair point. Thanks for adding this to the conversation. Good to see rational discussion around this topic.
Agree. Lots of people would consider those things accidental -- and I'm sure they are -- but they're negligent, too. Kaep's protest is conscientious, symbolic, deliberate, and thoughtful.
It's hypocritical how so many conservatives bemoan so-called "PC culture" and the language police, but as soon as someone doesn't participate in "their" polite ritual for the flag (as if it's only theirs and not equally Kaep's) they start whining like they accuse liberals of doing all the time.
No city even half the size of Chicago is without its dangerous areas.
You do recognize the complications around gentrification, don't you?
I think all of the points Letsgo added about Kaep play directly into what people think about him. People aren’t going to give him the benefit of the doubt when he supports Castro, regardless of how “complicated” it is. Nobody will give him the benefit of the doubt when he disrespects cops like he’s done. Add in not know exactly what the protest was for originally and he is rightfully hated. It doesn’t have a thing to do with race. He doesn’t have a job because of his own actions and not because of race. Yes, he donates a good amount of money to needy communities and people, but I still won’t support him because of the way he approached his protest and essentially doubled down even after people got pissed.
I do, but I also think it’s natural to grow and want to improve the city.
Another choice in the poll was literally “abortion should be legal in most cases”. Reasonable pro choicers that aren’t okay with aborting 3rd trimester viable pregnancies had a “most cases” option to choose.
Most people probably expect abortions to be done right away. I didn't expect a response from you regarding third trimester when I first typed out my initial response. As I stated before, all but a 100 abortions a year are prior to the third trimester.
"Most people expect abortions to be done right away", okay? Then if these people weren't idiots they would select the "MOST CASES" option that excludes abortions that aren't done right away. Unless, of course, they were still okay with those abortions.
100? First of all, I don't buy that number. Second of all, ONE abortion in a viable uncomplicated late term pregnancy is too many. That (to me) is killing a baby. "Not that many people are doing it!" is not a valid excuse to make it legal for the ones that are.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6410a1.htm#tab7
6,180 abortions per year at greater than 21 weeks gestational age.
Here is a 20 week baby
See this is where you are a moron. You miss the point. Gentrification is causing an increased amount of poor people into a highly concentrated area of Chicago. Mostly five main areas and it is resulting in increases in crime and murders in those areas. For example, a government housing area in Chicago just got shut down and they are renovating the buildings into million dollar condos. This is good for everyone that lives around there because their housing prices go up. It is bad because these poor people will be pushed into higher crime areas.
Chicago is far from a shithole. There are areas that are unsafe yes....but people overblow it because of the 5 areas I talked about where 50% of the murders/majority of crime occurs.
That stuff doesn't phase me, so sorry if that wasn't the reaction you were looking for.
Read a report last night that said only 4 doctors in 2014 openly practiced third trimester abortions in the US. They said it was less than one percent. So, again, not many and would assume they mainly for other reasons than just kidding rid of a kid.
Wrong. Chicago is a shithole. It doesn't matter where the poor people live. Crime is going to happen. It's not overblown. You keep saying it's five bad areas, yeah, well, those areas are absolutely terrible and have one of the highest crime rates in the country. Do you honestly think that crime would magically go away if all of the poor people weren't concentrated in a few areas? They will still be poor. There will still be crime. The way you're twisting to try and make Chicago seem like some good place to live all while minimizing the impacts and amount of crime in the city is idiotic. Chicago is a shithole and it's dangerous. I lived there for many years. The crime in the city isn't only within those five areas. Crime spills into all areas of the city. Claiming otherwise is being willingly dishonest (shocker).
So you're not real worried about it because the volume is so small? What about the minimal number of semi-auto rifle deaths in the US? They are in the hundreds in a universe of gun deaths that are over 30k. Yet there are plenty of liberals (truth be told, some conservatives too) that are calling for banning assault rifles like it's really going to move the needle. Both sides play the data to fit their narrative.
I understand how little things can add up. In this case I contest every one of them, so I don't accept that there's any accumulation. If I was with you halfway, I'd probably give you a pass a step or 3 further, but I'd argue it from step one.
If anyone is asking what I think, I think Chicago is a great town and I'll be there again in a few weeks. @SNU0821 is right about assault rifles. In general, guns are used a a scapegoat for a pretty complex problem. The gun issue definitely needs to be addressed, but pretty sure I've posted this same thing in he other 45 mass shooting threads on this board: addressing mental health issues should be the number one priority
I don't trust anything you say, really. I want to know more about exact questions and what supplemental info was available.
The bold is an example of why abortion is so polarizing and never gets anywhere. Pro-lifers are so busy yelling, "None!" that they won't ever make a play for "fewer." It's all or nothing. In that context, I'm not giving an inch, either, as I don't trust that it will ever stop. That's true of both pro-lifers, in general, and you, specifically.
I'm with you (excluding the Chicago thing). My number one suggestion for gun violence is somehow weave in a comprehensive social media check on someone who wants to buy a gun. Not sure how it would work, if it's possible, or how much it would cost, but I believe that would move us in the right direction identifying potential mental health issues prior to someone getting their hands on a gun.
That's fine, but Btown_Chicago came out and blatantly said that anyone who was against it was racist. Those were his words. That's wrong I would guess in almost all the cases of where people didn't like the kneeling. There is another element of the kneeling I haven't brought up, but I know numerous people that don't want politics brought into sports. They watch sports to get away from everything else. They don't want to see it. They don't want to hear the commentators talking about it. That's a big reason why they stopped watching. Then you have the other element that just doesn't like it because they believe it's disrespecting the flag/country/armed forces/etc. People like him, who default to racism, don't do anything but make these conversations impossible. It's like Hillary's deplorable comments. He is basically falling right in line with her. He thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is racist, stupid, homophobic, sexist, xenophobic, etc., etc., etc..
You know I've given you a hard time in the past, but his comments which seem like a direct reflection of the person he is and the character he lacks, are the reason we have Trump. He's doing nothing but furthering the divide in this country.
A fetal heartbeat can be detected around 22 days after conception. Most women don't know they're pregnant until 5+ weeks.
I agree with you that he is out of line there. I mentioned it to him once, but he and I aren't really having a direct dialogue, so it's easy for me to ignore it.
1. No, that’s too early to detect a fetal heart beat. The fetal pole isn’t even seen until 5 weeks at the earliest. Between 5 and 6 weeks is the earliest ultrasound would detect a heart beat.
2. I think reasonable abortion laws would allow first trimester abortions.
I think the “no abortions should be legal” conservatives are as annoying as the “all abortions should be legal” leftists. There is a common sense middle ground.
You don't have to search too hard to find this. I should qualify it and say the heartbeat begins at 22 days, but it's not detectable at that stage.
http://www.ehd.org/dev_article_unit4.php
https://www.liveaction.org/news/con...to-protect-life-once-a-heartbeat-is-detected/
You said detectable and I don’t need to search to know when heart tones are detectable. I was correcting you.
Kaepernick can take his positions and stick them up his worthless ass. The bastard does not deserve the right to live in my country. I hope he never gets another job in his life.
He is right up there with Hanoa Jane Fonda.
I would love to visit Chicago, personally. We have a direct flight to Chicago now at ILM, want to make a weekend trip sometime. That said, obviously the murders are happening more in some areas than others but according to this graph, it seems like they are happening in more areas than not.
It is definitely more dense is some areas and I guess it is probably the same in a lot of other high crime cities. Call me spoiled, I live in a town where 13 homicides is considered a lot. There are 90,000 plus people here. But we didn't house a lot of violent Haitians and introduce them to an already volatile drug environment where there are constant battles for territory. So it's not a fair comparison.
The murder rate in Chicago has dropped this year, not sure the reasons behind that. Maybe they are slowly killing each other off.
Chicago is a great town. But you do need to watch where you go.I would love to visit Chicago, personally. We have a direct flight to Chicago now at ILM, want to make a weekend trip sometime. That said, obviously the murders are happening more in some areas than others but according to this graph, it seems like they are happening in more areas than not.
It is definitely more dense is some areas and I guess it is probably the same in a lot of other high crime cities. Call me spoiled, I live in a town where 13 homicides is considered a lot. There are 90,000 plus people here. But we didn't house a lot of violent Haitians and introduce them to an already volatile drug environment where there are constant battles for territory. So it's not a fair comparison.
The murder rate in Chicago has dropped this year, not sure the reasons behind that. Maybe they are slowly killing each other off.
For two years I went to meetings down town at the Association of American Railroads. I would fly into O’Hare and then take the train to the downtown area just off the lake. I never had a problem.
The guy that replaced me on the committee was a native of Chicago and told me that I was a fool for doing that. He took a cab that cost 40 times as much and took twice as long.
Some of the best steak houses on earth are in Chicago. It is a lovely town.
Conservatives always claim this and I think Mental health is super important. Yet Republicans consistently cut funding to mental health services.
https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...ts-trump-focus-on-mental-health-school-safety
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/trump-gop-huge-hypocrisy-mental-health-care-article-1.3822890
https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/mass-shootings-mental-health-republicans/
Another important point the video raises,that it ends on, is that america has several gun problems and things that will help one problem may have no effect on other problems. For instance an assault weapon's ban will do nothing to lower the rate of gun deaths via suicide. Doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing. It just raises the point that there are lots of issues going on and there are no easy solutions.
If I want to kill my self why in hell are you trying to stop me?
If you take away guns, do you ban ropes, knives, cliffs, cars, rivers, oceans et.al.?
What is wrong with a person determining his own fate?
What is wrong with freedom? If I want to kill my self let me.
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