Another school shooting

[LetsGoDuke301]

I'll edit out the "shitty shitty shitty" as I misread it. My bad on that one.

Fair point on context. The context of the "this is where any civilized conversation ends" is that you were suggesting that an ad hominem ("moron") directed at you would end "civilized conversation." The remaining quotes are ad hominems.

I don't disagree. But they weren't made in a disguise of a civilized conversation. They were made in response to people who were refusing to have a civilized conversation. I know that two wrongs don't make a right. I am just curious as to why you chose to call me out. Especially the "then STFU" one. That one was 100% warranted.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I don't disagree. But they weren't made in a disguise of a civilized conversation. They were made in response to people who were refusing to have a civilized conversation. I know that two wrongs don't make a right. I am just curious as to why you chose to call me out. Especially the "then STFU" one. That one was 100% warranted.

I just saw the civilized conversation quote and ran with it. Not personal, just intended to be a funny little aside. I've certainly done worse on message boards. Cheers.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Saw that. I mean, the definition of dumb.

Shows you how out of touch the left is with reality. One of the definitions of the word animal.

- a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive.
"those men have to be animals—what they did to that boy was savage"
synonyms: brute, beast, monster, devil, demon, fiend; More
informalswine, bastard, pig
"the man was an animal"

Sad that dems are coming to the defense of such animals.

 

[SNU0821]

Shows you how out of touch the left is with reality. One of the definitions of the word animal.

- a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive.
"those men have to be animals—what they did to that boy was savage"
synonyms: brute, beast, monster, devil, demon, fiend; More
informalswine, bastard, pig
"the man was an animal"

Sad that dems are coming to the defense of such animals.

Yup. That guy definitely shouldn’t be a parent. That much is clear.

 

[Dattier]

No, it shows you how out of touch one person is.

I'll defend the humanity of horrible people. I think calling them animals tends to encourage a lack of reflection on a time when they were salvageable and consideration of what went wrong. I don't believe in condemning things w/o also condemning the context that led to it.

 

[SNU0821]

No, it shows you how out of touch one person is.

I'll defend the humanity of horrible people. I think calling them animals tends to encourage a lack of reflection on a time when they were salvageable and consideration of what went wrong. I don't believe in condemning things w/o also condemning the context that led to it.

Would you do the same for the KKK or ISIS?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

No, it shows you how out of touch one person is.

I'll defend the humanity of horrible people. I think calling them animals tends to encourage a lack of reflection on a time when they were salvageable and consideration of what went wrong. I don't believe in condemning things w/o also condemning the context that led to it.

Many dems including Nancy and Chuck have defended MS-13 against being called animals. Surprisingly, cnn has admitted to taking his comments out of context. But your leader, Nancy won't. So, no, not just one person. The leader of the progressive party who now is taking sides with MS-13.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

I see the same racial angle you do, but it's not consciously or directly about race, and even less so, conscious, direct racism. You're not just beating your head against the wall here; you're responsible for building the wall, and then you're beating your head against it.

Shrugs. I have said before it is subconscious and some conscious. Subconscious racism is still racism. It is amazing that throughout history when black people protest and white people disagree with it...they believe they should protest in a different way or don’t think they have a point. This trend is still here and has been this way every time since MLK. They justify it in saying Tebow was booted and hated for being a Christian even though he was given a ton of extra shots. It is being fragile and not wanting to talk about something that would make them uncomfortable.

 

[SNU0821]

Shrugs. I have said before it is subconscious and some conscious. Subconscious racism is still racism. It is amazing that throughout history when black people protest and white people disagree with it...they believe they should protest in a different way or don’t think they have a point. This trend is still here and has been this way every time since MLK. They justify it in saying Tebow was booted and hated for being a Christian even though he was given a ton of extra shots. It is being fragile and not wanting to talk about something that would make them uncomfortable.

Hahahaha. Soooooo dumb.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Hahahaha. Soooooo dumb.

He might throw his back out with all that virtue signaling

 

[JimboBBN]

If Dat calls you out and you’re on his team, you’re pretty extreme.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

If Dat calls you out and you’re on his team, you’re pretty extreme.

I like to say that if it pisses datt off, it's probably best for the country. Maybe I should change that to if it pisses datt and IU Btown off, it's probably best for the country.

 

[Dattier]

Would you do the same for the KKK or ISIS?

Call them people and condemn what they do? Absolutely!

That seems like too obvious an answer, though. Am I missing something?

 

[Dattier]

Many dems including Nancy and Chuck have defended MS-13 against being called animals. Surprisingly, cnn has admitted to taking his comments out of context. But your leader, Nancy won't. So, no, not just one person. The leader of the progressive party who now is taking sides with MS-13.

Defended them against being called animals? Yeah? So? I did, too. He did call MS-13 animals. I prefer condemning what they do.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Defended them against being called animals? Yeah? So? I did, too. He did call MS-13 animals. I prefer condemning what they do.

They are animals by definition. Not everything has to be trivial. Starting an argument over calling people who rape, kill, kidnap and sell young girls for sex animals is one of the most ridiculously trivial things I have witnessed in my life. Liberals are disgusting people.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Defending American values is in reference to defending Kaepernick's actions, not Kaepernick defending American values. That's clear from the posts:

You, a jingoist: Kaep should leave this country for engaging in free speech.
Me, a patriot: That's not really American. We're better than that.
You: Keep defending Kaep!
Me: I'm just defending actual American values like free speech.
You: This guy thinks Kaep is defending American values!
Me: Bro, do you even read?

Me: up your Bro.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Defending American values is in reference to defending Kaepernick's actions, not Kaepernick defending American values. That's clear from the posts:

You, a jingoist: Kaep should leave this country for engaging in free speech.
Me, a patriot: That's not really American. We're better than that.
You: Keep defending Kaep!
Me: I'm just defending actual American values like free speech.
You: This guy thinks Kaep is defending American values!
Me: Bro, do you even read?

No one knows who you are and the first couple posts I read of yours were pretty bad. Forgive me if I don’t read all of them in the future.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

They are animals by definition. Not everything has to be trivial. Starting an argument over calling people who rape, kill, kidnap and sell young girls for sex animals is one of the most ridiculously trivial things I have witnessed in my life. Liberals are disgusting people.

We gotta hear both sides. Are we sure MS-13 members know what they are doing is wrong?

 

[Dattier]

They are animals by definition. Not everything has to be trivial. Starting an argument over calling people who rape, kill, kidnap and sell young girls for sex animals is one of the most ridiculously trivial things I have witnessed in my life. Liberals are disgusting people.

It's not an argument until you turn into a snowflake over a dissenting opinion.

Yeah, all people are animals... by definition. And no people are animals... by definition. I think it's pretty significant, but then, I actually think about things. Labels that ignore people's humanity -- animal, monster, demon, chick, Canadian -- run the risk of forgetting that connection to us and any emphasis on prevention, redemption, thoughtfulness, intelligence, humility, etc. Those labels can truncate consideration of what led to it or any effort to do anything requiring effort that might help.

And at what cost? I can hold someone accountable without having to turn them into the ugliest caricature possible, especially if that's all emotion that obscures some other lesson. I mean, in studying WW2, if we portray all Germans as evil incarnate, we might forget that the Treaty of Versailles exacerbated things, that desperation sets the stage for embracing extremism, and that indoctrination is a formidable tool. And then we might perpetrate another Treaty of Versailles, or fail to offer an alternative to extremism before people are driven there, or to ignore signs of creeping indoctrination. Meanwhile, we can still be conscious of all of those things while exacting justice just as firmly and fairly, and more productively than before.

Note I'm parsing the potential extremism in my own words: "run the risk," "can truncate," "might forget," "might perpetrate." If you want to respond like a big boy, you could just say, "Duly noted. I'll keep that in mind while continuing to call them 'monsters,' recognizing my own hyperbole for what it is, and attempting to emulate Dat's calm intellect whenever I can manage it." Or you can keep whining and calling liberals names.

 

[Dattier]

We gotta hear both sides. Are we sure MS-13 members know what they are doing is wrong?

Doesn't really matter whether they know or not; it's harmful to society and has to be stopped, period.

The relevant "other side" in this case is being aware of the conditions that have made MS-13 and any gang membership an attractive choice for anyone. Then we can do something to prevent that. It takes more thoughtfulness and more effort that way, but it also yields results that are worth it in the form of less crime, more inclusion, more investment, etc.

I get the impression that conservatives here see anything but unbridled rage as "other."

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

It's not an argument until you turn into a snowflake over a dissenting opinion.

Yeah, all people are animals... by definition. And no people are animals... by definition. I think it's pretty significant, but then, I actually think about things. Labels that ignore people's humanity -- animal, monster, demon, chick, Canadian -- run the risk of forgetting that connection to us and any emphasis on prevention, redemption, thoughtfulness, intelligence, humility, etc. Those labels can truncate consideration of what led to it or any effort to do anything requiring effort that might help.

And at what cost? I can hold someone accountable without having to turn them into the ugliest caricature possible, especially if that's all emotion that obscures some other lesson. I mean, in studying WW2, if we portray all Germans as evil incarnate, we might forget that the Treaty of Versailles exacerbated things, that desperation sets the stage for embracing extremism, and that indoctrination is a formidable tool. And then we might perpetrate another Treaty of Versailles, or fail to offer an alternative to extremism before people are driven there, or to ignore signs of creeping indoctrination. Meanwhile, we can still be conscious of all of those things while exacting justice just as firmly and fairly, and more productively than before.

Note I'm parsing the potential extremism in my own words: "run the risk," "can truncate," "might forget," "might perpetrate." If you want to respond like a big boy, you could just say, "Duly noted. I'll keep that in mind while continuing to call them 'monsters,' recognizing my own hyperbole for what it is, and attempting to emulate Dat's calm intellect whenever I can manage it." Or you can keep whining and calling liberals names.

Typical lib

 

[Dattier]

Like clockwork. Same trolling crap as ever. Next you'll be trying to get all serious, explaining how you're not such a bad guy and how you recognize things requiring thought. Then you'll troll again. Rinse, repeat.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Like clockwork. Same trolling crap as ever. Next you'll be trying to get all serious, explaining how you're not such a bad guy and how you recognize things requiring thought. Then you'll troll again. Rinse, repeat.

Your response was garbage. The snow flake accusation wasn't trollish at all. I honestly don't think you actually believe the bullshit you say. MS-13 members are animals, and libs are disgusting people.

 

[SNU0821]

I believe this wouldn’t even be a conversation had Obama been the one to call them animals. The liberals/Democrats are just doubling down on the resist everything Trump does or says.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I believe this wouldn’t even be a conversation had Obama been the one to call them animals. The liberals/Democrats are just doubling down on the resist everything Trump does or says.

It wouldn't be an argument if anyone else said it. It is not a winnable argument either way. They're just embarrassing themselves by making it an argument to begin with.

 

[bkingUK]

Shows you how out of touch the left is with reality. One of the definitions of the word animal.

- a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive.
"those men have to be animals—what they did to that boy was savage"
synonyms: brute, beast, monster, devil, demon, fiend; More
informalswine, bastard, pig
"the man was an animal"

Sad that dems are coming to the defense of such animals.

You're trolling at this point

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

You're trolling at this point

Wrong. You're better than datt, don't reduce yourself to his level. The dems who are pretending to be offended by Trump calling animals, animals are the ones doing the trolling. I am just talking about it.

 

[bkingUK]

Wrong. You're better than datt, don't reduce yourself to his level. The dems who are pretending to be offended by Trump calling animals, animals are the ones doing the trolling. I am just talking about it.

You can call me a liberal in the classic sense. What annoys me about your recent posts is that they are wrong. You're just generalizing "the left" and "libs" and projecting bullshit to support your view. There are millions upon millions of "libs" with a lot of different views.

 

[JimboBBN]

You can call me a liberal in the classic sense. What annoys me about your recent posts is that they are wrong. You're just generalizing "the left" and "libs" and projecting bullshit to support your view. There are millions upon millions of "libs" with a lot of different views.

You'd have a point if Dems in this very thread didn't label every conservative racist because they find kneeling for the anthem disrespectful. Or one of the many other reasons they find conservatives racist.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

You can call me a liberal in the classic sense. What annoys me about your recent posts is that they are wrong. You're just generalizing "the left" and "libs" and projecting bullshit to support your view. There are millions upon millions of "libs" with a lot of different views.

As I said, the leader of the progressive party has defended MS-13 against being called animals. And datt has defended MS-13 against being called animals. I haven't seen anyone from the left come out and say that it is trivial to start this argument. That's pretty disgusting. What is the bullshit that I am projecting?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

@bkingUK you are right though. I will start saying typical datt from now on. It's not fair to other libs to be lumped in with him.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

It's not an argument until you turn into a snowflake over a dissenting opinion.

Yeah, all people are animals... by definition. And no people are animals... by definition. I think it's pretty significant, but then, I actually think about things. Labels that ignore people's humanity -- animal, monster, demon, chick, Canadian -- run the risk of forgetting that connection to us and any emphasis on prevention, redemption, thoughtfulness, intelligence, humility, etc. Those labels can truncate consideration of what led to it or any effort to do anything requiring effort that might help.

And at what cost? I can hold someone accountable without having to turn them into the ugliest caricature possible, especially if that's all emotion that obscures some other lesson. I mean, in studying WW2, if we portray all Germans as evil incarnate, we might forget that the Treaty of Versailles exacerbated things, that desperation sets the stage for embracing extremism, and that indoctrination is a formidable tool. And then we might perpetrate another Treaty of Versailles, or fail to offer an alternative to extremism before people are driven there, or to ignore signs of creeping indoctrination. Meanwhile, we can still be conscious of all of those things while exacting justice just as firmly and fairly, and more productively than before.

Note I'm parsing the potential extremism in my own words: "run the risk," "can truncate," "might forget," "might perpetrate." If you want to respond like a big boy, you could just say, "Duly noted. I'll keep that in mind while continuing to call them 'monsters,' recognizing my own hyperbole for what it is, and attempting to emulate Dat's calm intellect whenever I can manage it." Or you can keep whining and calling liberals names.

Yikes

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

As I said, the leader of the progressive party has defended MS-13 against being called animals. And datt has defended MS-13 against being called animals. I haven't seen anyone from the left come out and say that it is trivial to start this argument. That's pretty disgusting. What is the bullshit that I am projecting?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

 

[Dattier]

I believe this wouldn’t even be a conversation had Obama been the one to call them animals. The liberals/Democrats are just doubling down on the resist everything Trump does or says.

Completely hypothetical and unrealistic. It wasn't President Obama's style to call people names. His public demeanor is completely different from President Trump's. If you're looking for an example of hypocrisy on the left, they're out there, but that one ain't it.

When you stop defending everything President Trump does, you'll have room to talk about liberals' resisting everything. You can tell me all day how you support his policies, not his personal behavior, but if you respond to legitimate, genuine objection to his behavior with taunts about "6 more years" or something completely irrelevant about Obama or Hillary, you're defending it all the same.

 

[Dattier]

You'd have a point if Dems in this very thread didn't label every conservative racist because they find kneeling for the anthem disrespectful. Or one of the many other reasons they find conservatives racist.

Well, then he does have a point, b/c there's one person I've seen call people racist for that.

 

[Dattier]

As I said, the leader of the progressive party has defended MS-13 against being called animals. And datt has defended MS-13 against being called animals. I haven't seen anyone from the left come out and say that it is trivial to start this argument. That's pretty disgusting. What is the bullshit that I am projecting?

Actually, she and I both have objected to calling anyone animals. I've thoroughly explained why and there's no reasonable objection to it, just a preference for something else.

 

[JimboBBN]

Well, then he does have a point, b/c there's one person I've seen call people racist for that.

Lol this has to be a troll

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Lol this has to be a troll

He just isn’t very smart.

 

[SNU0821]

Completely hypothetical and unrealistic. It wasn't President Obama's style to call people names. His public demeanor is completely different from President Trump's. If you're looking for an example of hypocrisy on the left, they're out there, but that one ain't it.

When you stop defending everything President Trump does, you'll have room to talk about liberals' resisting everything. You can tell me all day how you support his policies, not his personal behavior, but if you respond to legitimate, genuine objection to his behavior with taunts about "6 more years" or something completely irrelevant about Obama or Hillary, you're defending it all the same.

I haven’t defended everything the president has said and done. To claim I have is a gross overstatement and completely untrue. I’ve made it very clear that I dont agree with plenty of things he’s said.

But my point still stands. If Obama called MS-13 gang members animals, there wouldn’t be any outrage. None. Not a word other than probably praise. Trump does a good thing by calling them out for what they are, animals, and liberals are defending them. I don’t mind though, it’s only going to help Trump in the mid terms and in 2020.