Yeah? Several others have actually resulted in convictions.
How do you know no racism was involved?
Wendell Carter's mom says......
- Thread starter oldsports_
- Start date
How do you know no racism was involved?
Sorry. I trust you put a lot into this, but I just can't get into all of it right now.
* I can rarely get anyone here to acknowledge institutional racism or white privilege exists.
* Being respectful to police is a good idea, but it's not a law and police are professionals who should be able to handle it without further escalation.
* People get shot for reaching for their wallets. Respect has nothing to do with that.
* The "culture" exists as a product of that institutional racism. It can't be changed w/o also addressing institutional racism.
Why doesn't logic tell you that black people aren't involved in some mass conspiracy to lie about systemic racism?
So it is logical that there is a mass conspiracy among black people to make up stories about fake racism?
Yeah, I took a break to go vote. Geez.
This isn't some negotiation. Are you withholding that admission to punish liberals or something?
"Half way" is a pretty classic offer for the status quo to float out there in exchange for whittling away at those seeking reform. John Crawford got shot while holding a gun he picked up off a shelf at Walmart. Philando Castille got shot reaching for his CCP. Oscar Grant got shot b/c the officer mistook his gun for a taser. Eric Garner was choked to death while protesting what he thought amounted to police harassment. Levar Jones got shot reaching for his wallet at the state trooper's request (and apologized while lying there!). Jonathan Ferrell was shot while seeking help following a car accident. Amadou Diallo was shot holding his wallet. Stephon Clark was shot while holding his cellphone. Terrence Crutcher was shot while walking away from officers.
Respect has nothing to do with any of those incidents. And while wise, respect is not required by law, and professional LEO should be able to handle it w/o escalating to a fatality.
If saying it's wise to be respectful to LEO qualifies as meeting you halfway, there you go. Otherwise, I consider it a misleading, deflective narrative rationalizing unnecessary deadly force used against people of color.
If you don’t think listening to and respecting police officers has anything to do with incidents involving LEO and criminals, black or white, then there’s nothing to talk about. I can’t say I didn’t try.Yeah, I took a break to go vote. Geez.
This isn't some negotiation. Are you withholding that admission to punish liberals or something?
"Half way" is a pretty classic offer for the status quo to float out there in exchange for whittling away at those seeking reform. John Crawford got shot while holding a gun he picked up off a shelf at Walmart. Philando Castille got shot reaching for his CCP. Oscar Grant got shot b/c the officer mistook his gun for a taser. Eric Garner was choked to death while protesting what he thought amounted to police harassment. Levar Jones got shot reaching for his wallet at the state trooper's request (and apologized while lying there!). Jonathan Ferrell was shot while seeking help following a car accident. Amadou Diallo was shot holding his wallet. Stephon Clark was shot while holding his cellphone. Terrence Crutcher was shot while walking away from officers.
Respect has nothing to do with any of those incidents. And while wise, respect is not required by law, and professional LEO should be able to handle it w/o escalating to a fatality.
If saying it's wise to be respectful to LEO qualifies as meeting you halfway, there you go. Otherwise, I consider it a misleading, deflective narrative rationalizing unnecessary deadly force used against people of color.
I will acknowledge individual racism, but not institutional racism. Certainly many cops have misbehaved, profiled, and acted inappropriately. But what are the racist laws? Pretty sure the cops aren't trained to single-out black people.
A study conducted by Harvard of 1,332 shootings during the years of 2000-2015, revealed that blacks are 20% percent less likely to be shot at by police than whites, despite the fact that blacks and whites are just as likely to be carrying a weapon. According to another study at Washington State University, which had 80 officers placed in 1,500 simulated scenarios, the researchers concluded that officers are 3x less likely to shoot at unarmed black men than unarmed white men.
Sometimes people point to the fact that black people are pulled over more frequently. But any statistic on traffic stops is meaningless unless we know the rate of traffic violations for each race. "On the New Jersey turnpike, for example, black drivers studied in 2001 sped at twice the rate of white drivers (with speeding defined as traveling at 15 mph or more above the posted limit) and traveled at the most reckless levels of speed even more disproportionately." In article from the WSJ stated the 55% of NYPD stops involved African-Americans. But that number is hardly an outlier when you consider that African-Americans account for 66% of the city's violent crimes and 78% of the shootings. But sure, let's dismiss individual responsibility for our actions and claim we're victims of "institutional racism." That'll show 'em.
What does that have to do with John Crawford, Lamar Jones, Philando Castille, Stephon Clark, Jonathon Ferrell, and more? Respect had nothing to do w/ any of that.
Why was the police officer who arrested Sandra Bland fired? She was rude to him, after all. Conservatives would sooner believe there's some huge conspiracy to appease people of color (in Texas, no less) than recognize that her rudeness doesn't justify an officer of the law escalating it into a body slam and arrest. I suspect it's b/c secretly, they want to body slam mouthy black women, too. Same reason they loved it when that Baltimore mom beat her black teenage son when she caught him participating in a riot.
Oh, but suggesting implicit bias and systemic racism may have played a role is outrageous. If only those uppity black people had some respect!
See this is where you look silly. Because I admitted in a prior post you are more likely to be treated unfairly by the police if you’re black. I then also stated that you are less likely to have problems with police if you listen to them instead of acting innocent and like a victim before anything even happens.
The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it is any fault other than an LEO shows how extreme your stances can be sometimes, and how not seriously people continue to take some of your stances.
That's a pretty good plan for rarely having to recognize it at all. And doing nothing about it.
When you insist on adding the respect piece to every statement and expect it to be offered in some negotiation for your acknowledgement of bias, you're implying a link and victim-blaming. The officer who arrested Sandra Bland was fired in spite of the fact she was rude. He overreacted. Focusing on her rudeness excuses an officer of the law from the high standards we expect from LEO.
I know this is going to sound off topic because now this thread is talking about Trump/Obama, BLM and the pollution difference between Texas and Africa. But I wasnt on here to see this yesterday so Im going to talk about the things Wendell's mom said.
I thought she was all over the place with all of her points. She first starts off with once you remove the bells and whistle, the players are basically getting no form of compensation so this is why she compares it to slavery. Well ya this is like me saying I work for Apple, but once you take away my salary its like slavery. The players choose to go to college knowing that their compensation is through different types of benefits. Education, board, meals prepped by nutritionists, travel across the country in private planes and staying in 5 star hotels, unlimited amount of gear (for on and off the court), top notch medical coverage, top tier training facilities, top tier coaches and elite of the elite level of promotion and networking.
So you cant really start off your point by saying if you take away the bells and whistles. Thats basically what colleges are offering, if the players dont like it they can go over seas (Terrance Ferguson), play for the G League (Darius Bazley), or have an agent pay for your training and living expenses for a year (Mitchell Robinson).
If its such a horrible system why just 1 month ago she was the one parent telling him he should return to Duke. Why in this same speech she said she wants schools to hire an advisor for each player so they can get in their ear to basically prevent them from leaving by telling them how much of a mistake it would be to leave the education behind. She also said that she doesnt want schools to pay the players and that would only make it worse.
She was all over the place on the things that she was saying. And dont get me started on the slavery thing, these players are CHOOSING to play basketball for return of these benefits as compensation, the players can CHOOSE to get up and leave whenever they would like if they ever felt exploited. The fact that there is some form of compensation and the main thing here CHOICE, automatically should prevent the comparison to slavery.
Just to make this clear, I dont think the NCAA is perfect. I think players should be able to sign autographs and make money off their names while in school.
I thought she was all over the place with all of her points. She first starts off with once you remove the bells and whistle, the players are basically getting no form of compensation so this is why she compares it to slavery. Well ya this is like me saying I work for Apple, but once you take away my salary its like slavery. The players choose to go to college knowing that their compensation is through different types of benefits. Education, board, meals prepped by nutritionists, travel across the country in private planes and staying in 5 star hotels, unlimited amount of gear (for on and off the court), top notch medical coverage, top tier training facilities, top tier coaches and elite of the elite level of promotion and networking.
So you cant really start off your point by saying if you take away the bells and whistles. Thats basically what colleges are offering, if the players dont like it they can go over seas (Terrance Ferguson), play for the G League (Darius Bazley), or have an agent pay for your training and living expenses for a year (Mitchell Robinson).
If its such a horrible system why just 1 month ago she was the one parent telling him he should return to Duke. Why in this same speech she said she wants schools to hire an advisor for each player so they can get in their ear to basically prevent them from leaving by telling them how much of a mistake it would be to leave the education behind. She also said that she doesnt want schools to pay the players and that would only make it worse.
She was all over the place on the things that she was saying. And dont get me started on the slavery thing, these players are CHOOSING to play basketball for return of these benefits as compensation, the players can CHOOSE to get up and leave whenever they would like if they ever felt exploited. The fact that there is some form of compensation and the main thing here CHOICE, automatically should prevent the comparison to slavery.
Just to make this clear, I dont think the NCAA is perfect. I think players should be able to sign autographs and make money off their names while in school.
If it is a problem, THEN we should do something about it. But isolated incidents don't give us a right to castigate an entire race. There are more than 800,000 white police officers in America. Do you realize the vast number of individual instances where they have to face precarious circumstances? It's literally in the millions. Statically speaking, they are bound to make mistakes. And that part sucks. But what issues are we trying to address with the race aspect? Blacks are not being over-targeted or over-profiled when we adjust for the crime statistics.
I suppose the way to make our society better is to complain incessantly about perceived injustices? Cops are not trained to be racist, our schools are not trained to be racist, our financial institutions are not trained to be racist (you actually make less money if you are). Bringing up race with every problem seems to foster a very unhealthy and combative environment. We create a problem that doesn't exist. There are more important issues than figuring out if someone is racist. If racism is rampant and widespread, please support your argument with facts and figures. If there is no statistical data to substantiate your claims, it obviously doesn't mean racism doesn't exist, it simply means that it's not as pervasive as the MSM makes it out to be. Racism exists, yes. But is it pervasive in the sense that is it compromising the safety and well-being of African-Americans? No. And that is why doing nothing is actually okay. Let's not create imaginary problems (again, this is on a wide-scale basis, not isolated examples).
It’s crazy you don’t see listening to orders as part of the equation. Listening and complying with = respect. You’re usually smarter than this.
Well, all those kids that had the privelage of playing bigtime D1 ball could have been out digging ditches, tying rebar, pouring concrete and bolting steel together to make a living like I had to.
I wasn't blessed with the size or extreme athletic ability to get the shot to play on a stage that ultimately could have landed me in the pros where I would then be making millions.
Wendall Carter got the chance to showcase his talents and learn under a hall of fame coach in his one year of college. That 1 season is going to earn him millions before he turns 20. That ain't something that ever happened for a slave and anyone that compares playing cbb to being a slave should be embarrassed.
I wasn't blessed with the size or extreme athletic ability to get the shot to play on a stage that ultimately could have landed me in the pros where I would then be making millions.
Wendall Carter got the chance to showcase his talents and learn under a hall of fame coach in his one year of college. That 1 season is going to earn him millions before he turns 20. That ain't something that ever happened for a slave and anyone that compares playing cbb to being a slave should be embarrassed.
From Wikipedia: is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions.
So yes, pretty much what I was saying.
Yup. It's like the guy in South Carolina that was shot and killed. He was pulled over for a traffic violation IIRC. The officer was just running his information and the guy took off running. Had he not done that, he would likely still be alive today. However, the officer still shouldn't have shot him, IMO. Regardless, it's not all on the officer. The guy who ran, Walter Scott may be his name, bares some blame as well. But I can guarantee Datt will disagree with that. LOL
I've said a couple times it's wise.
You're digging your heels in over my pointing out accurately that it has nothing to do w/ it in many cases, and it isn't an excuse for an LEO's actions when it does.
But in some cases it is an excuse. Even necessary. That’s what you don’t and refuse to understand. But that’s fine, I’m not trying to change your mind. Just open it a little bit
Very next sentence: "Institutional racism is also racism by individuals or informal social groups, governed by behavioral norms that support racist thinking and foment active racism."
So no, not at all what you were saying. Quite the opposite of what you're saying, really.
Try this: "Institutional Oppression occurs when established laws, customs, and practices systematically reflect and produce inequities based on one’s membership in targeted social identity groups. If oppressive consequences accrue to institutional laws, customs, or practices, the institution is oppressive whether or not the individuals maintaining those practices have oppressive intentions."
It can include laws, but it's much more than that. So attempting to rebut the existence of institutional racism by demanding evidence of specific laws alone is tone deaf and just basic.
Force is sometimes necessary. Refusing to follow a lawful command may lead to it. Rudeness alone doesn't warrant it.
We're talking about manners vs death here and you want to focus on manners as if even bad manners warrant death as a possible outcome.
How much disdain must you have for people of color that you would think advising them to be polite is the best option?
It’s not necessarily manners, man. Just listening so you can keep yourself safe. Cops have the toughest job in the world, they face life and death events every day probably. They do whatever they can to go home at night. Following simple instructions will keep you safe 99.9 percent of the time with the police. All I’m saying.
It’s not being polite bud. It’s complying and listening. You are trying to make this a joke.
Following directions got Lamar Jones and Philando Castille shot. Choosing not to follow directions the trooper had no lawful right to make got Sandra Bland arrested violently.
We're not talking about what I tell my kids before they go out or what you tell the other people in the car when you get pulled over. We're talking about after the fact and someone is dead. Well, Walter Scott shouldn't have ran?
Bad cops exist. Doesn’t make me wrong, though. In most situations, complying and listening will get you out safely. Those cops were bad people, easy to admit.
The perception of racism is the problem. Some people do use it as a crutch, but Ms. Carter likely perceives real racism. People have that perception for reason. Not to say that the perception is correct.
Slavery happened. Segregation didn't end that long ago. Systematic oppression existed. Ms. Carter or her relatives probably lived through it. So, while it's easy to chastise her as being off base, the legacy of racism in America is that the perception creates racial tension on both sides.
Slavery happened. Segregation didn't end that long ago. Systematic oppression existed. Ms. Carter or her relatives probably lived through it. So, while it's easy to chastise her as being off base, the legacy of racism in America is that the perception creates racial tension on both sides.
I haven't disagreed w/ you about most situations. I have called you on deflection.
Per usual, a lib ashamed of being white. Poor baby
This happened the other day in Milwaukee.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-new...nies-for-battery-to-milwaukee-police-officers
"Last Wednesday, Milwaukee police were called out to 51st and Capitol after Lowe's girlfriend called 911, saying he was being violent and had possibly had been drugged."
Towards the end you see the police getting surrounded and ridiculed. That speaks volumes. Rather than being happy the police apprehended this out of control man, people in the video immediately revert to getting pissed at the cops and calling them racist.
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