Ruh Ro Duke

[Sevro]

I have already said that it would be hard to imagine that there is nothing to this. All you did there was provide the speculations and made assumptions on it. I am certainly not going to say with any certainty that they did not ask for or receive anything. I just think things should play out.

The Zion situation holds more water IMO, but we'll see.

It’s certainly just hearsay at this point and doesn’t connect duke to the agents. But the dots can be connected. At the very least, they should have been ineligible. FTR, I’d only be surprised if UNC was implicated because we just aren’t landing anyone.

Remember, these guys could be lying but it’s highly doubtful. Lying to the ncaa is one thing. Lying to the Feds is risking a long, long jail sentence. The Feds can also choose to chase the money if they want to (doubt they would) and find out which families got paid.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

It’s certainly just hearsay at this point and doesn’t connect duke to the agents. But the dots can be connected. At the very least, they should have been ineligible. FTR, I’d only be surprised if UNC was implicated because we just aren’t landing anyone.

Remember, these guys could be lying but it’s highly doubtful. Lying to the ncaa is one thing. Lying to the Feds is risking a long, long jail sentence. The Feds can also choose to chase the money if they want to (doubt they would) and find out which families got paid.

Right. But don't you feel like this whole thing is being manipulated to make Duke the bad guy by using their two biggest recruits as examples because they are the big fish everyone wants to see fried? They clearly mention all of the major programs being implicated, yet only two specific players. Even you with your thread on the main board makes this out to be about Duke. The bigger story should be about how little the NCAA really cares. The fact that Bagley and Williamson were highly touted shouldn't mean that it was more corrupt to pay them than it was to Vanderbilt at Kentucky. But you don't see anyone mentioning Vanderbilt.

 

[Sevro]

Right. But don't you feel like this whole thing is being manipulated to make Duke the bad guy by using their two biggest recruits as examples because they are the big fish everyone wants to see fried? They clearly mention all of the major programs being implicated, yet only two specific players. Even you with your thread on the main board makes this out to be about Duke. The bigger story should be about how little the NCAA really cares. The fact that Bagley and Williamson were highly touted shouldn't mean that it was more corrupt to pay them than it was to Vanderbilt at Kentucky. But you don't see anyone mentioning Vanderbilt.

Duke brings the attention. If this was a couple of kids from Creighton, no one pays attention. If you can step away from your fandom and look how the perception of Duke has changed since 2010. In your gut, you know something is amiss. Perhaps K is clean but someone is helping behind the scenes to make Duke what it is.

 

[schoonerwest]

Right. But don't you feel like this whole thing is being manipulated to make Duke the bad guy by using their two biggest recruits as examples because they are the big fish everyone wants to see fried? They clearly mention all of the major programs being implicated, yet only two specific players. Even you with your thread on the main board makes this out to be about Duke. The bigger story should be about how little the NCAA really cares. The fact that Bagley and Williamson were highly touted shouldn't mean that it was more corrupt to pay them than it was to Vanderbilt at Kentucky. But you don't see anyone mentioning Vanderbilt.

Duke is the huge name so obviously most of the attention from yesterday will be focused on them. But this whole scandal has shown us that there’s something new everyday. Next week could be all about Bam and Kentucky or Wiggins and Kansas.

 

[Afamu]

Duke brings the attention. If this was a couple of kids from Creighton, no one pays attention. If you can step away from your fandom and look how the perception of Duke has changed since 2010. In your gut, you know something is amiss. Perhaps K is clean but someone is helping behind the scenes to make Duke what it is.

Why does Duke need someone behind the scenes. Zion is proof. By playing for Duke he increase is NBA value 10 fold along with his endorsement $'s. OAD's come for 6 months.
And the only perception change is from opposing fans. Duke still gets the top recruits as K has been doing for the last 25 years. Now they are just OAD instead of staying for 3 or 4 years.

Turn it into a conspiracy all you want, it just isn't true.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Duke brings the attention. If this was a couple of kids from Creighton, no one pays attention.

Well, that was my point.

If you can step away from your fandom and look how the perception of Duke has changed since 2010. In your gut, you know something is amiss. Perhaps K is clean but someone is helping behind the scenes to make Duke what it is.

In light of these revelations, it certainly raises questions. But no, nothing in my gut was telling me that something was amiss. It is not hard to vision the evolution of Duke's recruiting success being a result of a change in strategy. Cal was giving these kids the platform and the path to the NBA. Krzyzewski gave them a 2nd option.

At the end of the day, it would be pathetic for OADs to take money to attend school. As much as I like Zion and Bagley, I would lose a lot of respect for them if these allegations end up being true. Their families, mostly. They should be allowed to go make money regardless, such a stupid rule.

 

[Afamu]

It’s certainly just hearsay at this point and doesn’t connect duke to the agents. But the dots can be connected. At the very least, they should have been ineligible. FTR, I’d only be surprised if UNC was implicated because we just aren’t landing anyone.

Remember, these guys could be lying but it’s highly doubtful. Lying to the ncaa is one thing. Lying to the Feds is risking a long, long jail sentence. The Feds can also choose to chase the money if they want to (doubt they would) and find out which families got paid.

Then connect the dots for everyone.

BTW, what are Little, White, Anthony and Bacot. Not McDaa's or potential OAD's.

Guess they can just major in AFAM

 

[Sevro]

Well, that was my point.


In light of these revelations, it certainly raises questions. But no, nothing in my gut was telling me that something was amiss. It is not hard to vision the evolution of Duke's recruiting success being a result of a change in strategy. Cal was giving these kids the platform and the path to the NBA. Krzyzewski gave them a 2nd option.

At the end of the day, it would be pathetic for OADs to take money to attend school. As much as I like Zion and Bagley, I would lose a lot of respect for them if these allegations end up being true. Their families, mostly. They should be allowed to go make money regardless, such a stupid rule.

More times than not, it’s the family. Kids don’t stand up to their parents. Zion’s stepfather met with the Clemson coach in secret to discuss terms. The Clemson assistant even kept this from Brownell. Zion’s step-dad has been quotes as to asking for money and housing from Kansas and Clemson. Perhaps neither K nor Zion knew. But there was almost certainly pay for play happening.

 

[TheDude1]

Well, that was my point.


In light of these revelations, it certainly raises questions. But no, nothing in my gut was telling me that something was amiss. It is not hard to vision the evolution of Duke's recruiting success being a result of a change in strategy. Cal was giving these kids the platform and the path to the NBA. Krzyzewski gave them a 2nd option.

At the end of the day, it would be pathetic for OADs to take money to attend school. As much as I like Zion and Bagley, I would lose a lot of respect for them if these allegations end up being true. Their families, mostly. They should be allowed to go make money regardless, such a stupid rule.

I have a hard time throwing the families under the bus. If someone is offering you hundreds of thousands of dollars to do something, all based on what you've worked your entire life to do, and you see every single other person making millions off it... I don't know, I don't really lose much respect for them, although I know it is against the rules... but if EVERYONE is breaking the rules, then I definitely don't lose respect for the players.

 

[Afamu]

"

More times than not, it’s the family. Kids don’t stand up to their parents. Zion’s stepfather met with the Clemson coach in secret to discuss terms. The Clemson assistant even kept this from Brownell. Zion’s step-dad has been quotes as to asking for money and housing from Kansas and Clemson. Perhaps neither K nor Zion knew. But there was almost certainly pay for play happening.

"almost certainly" How do you think that will hold up in court?

 

[Sevro]

I have a hard time throwing the families under the bus. If someone is offering you hundreds of thousands of dollars to do something, all based on what you've worked your entire life to do, and you see every single other person making millions off it... I don't know, I don't really lose much respect for them, although I know it is against the rules... but if EVERYONE is breaking the rules, then I definitely don't lose respect for the players.

I see both sides of the equation. And most likely, the true scope of what’s happening will never come to light.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I have a hard time throwing the families under the bus. If someone is offering you hundreds of thousands of dollars to do something, all based on what you've worked your entire life to do, and you see every single other person making millions off it... I don't know, I don't really lose much respect for them, although I know it is against the rules... but if EVERYONE is breaking the rules, then I definitely don't lose respect for the players.

Meh. If they worked their entire lives for something, what's one more year of doing things right. They don't get a pass from me. There are millions of people working their asses off that don't have kids that are lottery picks that will be making millions of dollars. But they do things right. Those are the people I respect. Being greedy doesn't not garner respect.

 

[829305]

EVERYONE is breaking the rules

Finally, you get it.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

In all honesty. I hope a player or their family comes out and admits to taking money. I hope they blow the whistle on everyone involved. If it happens to be a Duke kid, so be it.

 

[TheDude1]

Finally, you get it.

I've been really, really consistent over the years that A) I think Duke likely cheats and B) I think everyone likely cheats.

 

[Quavarius]

 

[ExitFlagger]

It would certainly make me ask questions. But these are nowhere near comparable. If this is your best effort, take the rest of the day and start your weekend early.

You're right--it's not very comparable. There's always the chance that the friend could have been lying about their "conquest." Whereas it's hard to imagine a scenario in which Townsend and the Adidas guy were lying to each other about Zion's family's demands.

All part of a grand conspiracy!!

 

[ExitFlagger]

View embedded media

I'm so shocked by this. Aren't you? I mean....no one EVER lies to cover their ass.

 

[bkingUK]

Can’t we just put Louisville on probation for this and be done with it?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

You're right--it's not very comparable. There's always the chance that the friend could have been lying about their "conquest." Whereas it's hard to imagine a scenario in which Townsend and the Adidas guy were lying to each other about Zion's family's demands.

All part of a grand conspiracy!!

It could be me. But I don't see your point here.

 

[Quavarius]

I'm so shocked by this. Aren't you? I mean....no one EVER lies to cover their ass.

But you believe Bill Self lies tho

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Can’t we just put Louisville on probation for this and be done with it?

Thread will certainly be derailed now. We made it to page 2 at least.

 

[bkingUK]

Thread will certainly be derailed now. We made it to page 2 at least.

Article really isn’t even about Duke and I’m actually defending Louisville. The fact they are getting NCAA inquiries and have been made the scapegoat for all this is a bit outrageous. Literally have to punish every blue blood if Louisville is punished for the wiretaps... but that’d also require consistency from the NCAA.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Article really isn’t even about Duke and I’m actually defending Louisville. The fact they are getting NCAA inquiries and have been made the scapegoat for all this is a bit outrageous. Literally have to punish every blue blood if Louisville is punished for the wiretaps... but that’d also require consistency from the NCAA.

At the end of this article, they are pretty critical of the NCAA. Apparently they didn't have a single representative in the courtroom and have made zero statements on any of the allegations.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-survei...verywhere-in-college-athletics-210716764.html

 

[ExitFlagger]

But you believe Bill Self lies tho

Do I?

 

[ExitFlagger]

It could be me. But I don't see your point here.

The point is that there's no logical theory that supports the idea that Zion's family didn't make demands.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

The point is that there's no logical theory that supports the idea that Zion's family didn't make demands.

You are really shitty at making a point.

 

[ExitFlagger]

You are really shitty at making a point.

Not really. But you're always good for some snarky bullshit to distract from the point.

Give me one plausible theory to explain that Townsend's conversation about Zion's family was untrue.

 

[kl40504]

Right. But don't you feel like this whole thing is being manipulated to make Duke the bad guy by using their two biggest recruits as examples because they are the big fish everyone wants to see fried? They clearly mention all of the major programs being implicated, yet only two specific players. Even you with your thread on the main board makes this out to be about Duke. The bigger story should be about how little the NCAA really cares. The fact that Bagley and Williamson were highly touted shouldn't mean that it was more corrupt to pay them than it was to Vanderbilt at Kentucky. But you don't see anyone mentioning Vanderbilt.

I feel so sorry for Duke. Everybody knows Duke is as clean as white snow.

 

[TheDude1]

Meh. If they worked their entire lives for something, what's one more year of doing things right. They don't get a pass from me. There are millions of people working their asses off that don't have kids that are lottery picks that will be making millions of dollars. But they do things right. Those are the people I respect. Being greedy doesn't not garner respect.

I don't know... I mean, I agree, but man... if I am in a situation where the rule says something, and literally nobody is following it... why wait that year, you know?

I agree, in theory, but it's a tough issue.

 

[toonces11]

I don't know... I mean, I agree, but man... if I am in a situation where the rule says something, and literally nobody is following it... why wait that year, you know?

I agree, in theory, but it's a tough issue.

I just think its shitty all around, and Ive always been of the opinion it happens everywhere. Are coaches directly involved....no. But they have been around the sport at every level and they know what goes on with top players. Every single school (that matters) has had a player receive improper benefits, play for them. There is no way a school could know everything, as well as not know anything.

The only thing that bothers me is the guys that insist everyone BUT their team is doing it. If you've had top 1-50 players play for your team--youve played a player that has been on the take.

 

[tw3301]

If someone were caught on recording discussing details of how his friend screwed your wife, would you give him the benefit of he doubt?

“Welllllllll, we have no substantial evidence.” Just stop.

I assume you believe Kansas was working with Adidas to pay players as well since they were caught on tape right?

 

[tw3301]

Not really. But you're always good for some snarky bullshit to distract from the point.

Give me one plausible theory to explain that Townsend's conversation about Zion's family was untrue.

Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof isn't on us. Just because Kansas was trying to buy his services doesn't mean Duke did.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Not really. But you're always good for some snarky bullshit to distract from the point.

Give me one plausible theory to explain that Townsend's conversation about Zion's family was untrue.

No, you really are shitty at making a point.

I don't have a plausible theory about that. I only have the fact that it was a conversation between two people discussing a conversation that involved someone else. Not backed by evidence. I have said multiple times that I have a hard time believing that there is nothing to the stories. Forgive me for not wanting to speak in absolutes.

 

[FearTheBeard]

And what do you have on KU? Besides sworn testimony that they had no knowledge of payments? That’s what I thought. Innuendo.

Yet common sense tells us that Duke and KU (and just about every power 5 program) are involved. The only question is how involved.

So De Sousa was suspended based on innuendo?

The point is a KU fan has no business throwing stones. Linking an article that makes a vague reference to “resources” at the top 3 basketball schools but also includes a reference to sworn testimony that KU offered money to Zion is just plain idiotic. My guess is the OP didn’t read the article he posted.

I agree all these schools knew this was going on. My guess is they just turned a blind eye and let the handlers and show companies do the dirty work. Some schools are probably more culpable than others. I don’t know what will shake out with Duke, KY, or UNC, but I know that as of today it’s nothing but porn lawyer accusations and innuendo.

 

[schoonerwest]

So De Sousa was suspended based on innuendo?

The point is a KU fan has no business throwing stones. Linking an article that makes a vague reference to “resources” at the top 3 basketball schools but also includes a reference to sworn testimony that KU offered money to Zion is just plain idiotic. My guess is the OP didn’t read the article he posted.

I agree all these schools knew this was going on. My guess is they just turned a blind eye and let the handlers and show companies do the dirty work. Some schools are probably more culpable than others. I don’t know what will shake out with Duke, KY, or UNC, but I know that as of today it’s nothing but porn lawyer accusations and innuendo.

De Sousa was suspended because his guardian took money. I’m not even sure if he was aware that happened.

Also, are you suggesting that Kansas fans shouldn’t bring up negative news when it happens to other schools? Why? It was big news yesterday. Several public outlets were discussing how it was a bad look for Duke. It is a “Ruh Ro” moment. You shouldn’t judge the messenger just because they root for a school that has its own issues.

 

[FearTheBeard]

De Sousa was suspended because his guardian took money. I’m not even sure if he was aware that happened.

Also, are you suggesting that Kansas fans shouldn’t bring up negative news when it happens to other schools? Why? It was big news yesterday. Several public outlets were discussing how it was a bad look for Duke. It is a “Ruh Ro” moment. You shouldn’t judge the messenger just because they root for a school that has its own issues.

Probably not the brightest thing to do when the article the OP linked makes KU look worse than Duke. But, if he wants to do that, go right ahead.

 

[AWilli6995]

I'm so shocked by this. Aren't you? I mean....no one EVER lies to cover their ass.

I work with a dude that went to college with Bagleys father at NC A&T. Let’s just say he’s not surprised by this coming out because we both know people in the AAU circles here. Now nothing may not come of this but you never know.

 

[ExitFlagger]

So De Sousa was suspended based on innuendo?

The point is a KU fan has no business throwing stones. Linking an article that makes a vague reference to “resources” at the top 3 basketball schools but also includes a reference to sworn testimony that KU offered money to Zion is just plain idiotic. My guess is the OP didn’t read the article he posted.

I agree all these schools knew this was going on. My guess is they just turned a blind eye and let the handlers and show companies do the dirty work. Some schools are probably more culpable than others. I don’t know what will shake out with Duke, KY, or UNC, but I know that as of today it’s nothing but porn lawyer accusations and innuendo.

A former Nike employee stating specifically that Duke and others pay players isn't very vague.

 

[schoonerwest]

Probably not the brightest thing to do when the article the OP linked makes KU look worse than Duke. But, if he wants to do that, go right ahead.

I think most of us fans along with the rest of CBB have already accepted the fact that Kansas looks dirty.