Because UVA wins in the regular season mean nothing in the NCAA tournament. You guys proved that last year.
POLL: UT at UK Saturday
- Thread starter DezyVol
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They made enough money in one year playing at KU that they needed to move on before the NCAA got wise.
This is like elite passive aggressive BS here. I assume you are smarter than this but your previous posts here certainly leave some doubt. No one keeps players a certain amount of time. That is extremely insulting to the players. Some players need more time and some don't. UNC has not often landed the type of guys who are ready as soon as they get to college. The only two guys who probably should have left after their freshman year were McAdoo and Barnes (though McAdoo wasn't ready and Barnes was because of the lockout). Roy has missed on the elite guys and even the 5 star guys he has landed were more the two or three year type players. They were also often back up plans for guys he missed that were OAD types.
If kids are leaving when Cal is telling them they shouldn't and kids are staying at UNC when maybe they need to go perhaps that should tell you something. It probably won't though.
KU doesn't have near the turnover that UK has. I would love it if UK/Cal had a senior PG like Frank Mason. That guy would have been gone before his Junior year at UK easily.
Devonte Graham, Vick, myhailuk, Seldon, Perry Ellis (I think he played with Danny Manning and Frank Mason he was there so long), Bragg, Traylor etc.... I mean, that's only going back to 2014. KU hasn't had anywhere near the turnover that UK has had.
Or are you talking about all of the suspensions? I guess I didn't consider that.
LMAO, you have to be joking.
Are you telling me this is the first time you've seen or heard someone say something about Roy holding players back?
Also, Cal gives his players feedback and his opinion, they make their own decisions. I see where you are going with that last part and it is you that's not understanding.
So you're saying Roy has had no 5* players stay through their Junior/Senior years? Is that what you are saying?
I mean, we hear a lot of things. That doesn't make them true. Most every fan outside of Kentucky thinks Cal is a cheater. Have you not heard that? That doesn't make it so.
Roy gives his players feedback and his opinion and they make their own decisions as well. They almost always make the correct one.
I felt like that last question was actually answered in the post you quoted. So I looked back. Guess what? It was answered in the post you quoted.
Yup, I read all kinds of comments about how Cal is a cheater. I go out of my way to respond to those comments with: "you got a link that proves he cheated?".
As far as UNC, your 2017 team alone had 4 junior/Senior 5* McDonald's All Americans in it, which means the 2016 team had at least 4 sophomore/Junior All Americans. Plus Marcus Paige (Senior) and Brice Johnson (Senior).
How did those players stay there that long? That doesn't happen at UK because it's all about potential.
So why is it UNC can hang in to their 5* guys for 3 and 4 years and UK gets them for 2 years max (besides Poythress) when it's all about potential?
I mean, look what Cal has done with a bunch of Freshman (4 final fours and a title in 10 years time). Can you imagine what he would accomplish with what Roy has had at UNC?
I think Roy's best work is keeping his teams intact and making them extremely talented and filled with veterans. Sure, he's a great coach, but you gotta love that veteran 5* talent he's had .
Jeez, ole "roll the balls our Cal" would be crushing it with rosters like that.
I think Roy's best work is keeping his teams intact and making them extremely talented and filled with veterans. Sure, he's a great coach, but you gotta love that veteran 5* talent he's had .
Jeez, ole "roll the balls our Cal" would be crushing it with rosters like that.
In terms of juniors and seniors it had Joel Berry (4*), Theo Pinson (5*), Nate Britt (4*), Kennedy Meeks (4*), Justin Jackson (5*), and Isaiah Hicks (5*). Which of those players who are killing it in the pros do you think should have left early and not been drafted? I know you wish they would have so they wouldn't have beaten your Cats but it would have been a dumb move for them since they wouldn't have been drafted.
I mean, I told you already, which what I just said illustrates. Roy has gone after the OAD type guys and they go somewhere else. UK, Duke, 'Zona, KU, etc.... So he ends up with very good players, even some 5* level guys, but guys that aren't OAD type players. If you think Anthony Davis would have stayed at UNC 3 years or Kennedy Meeks would have been a OAD at UK you are FOS.
This is just nonsense to excuse that Cal has not been able to do what Roy has done. Cal isn't Roy, man. He is still elite though.
I don't knock on Cal and UK. Great coach and great program but I'm happy with Roy and UNC. I don't know why you are not content with your coach and program.
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Is this serious?
So because Cal can get the most elite PG recruits in the nation to the NBA early, he’d have gotten a 5’11 Towson commit drafted early? Sure, dude. Pass me some.
But then, maybe you’re right. I mean, look what he did with top 10 recruit Poythress.
Interesting that no one considered Mason (or almost everyone else you listed) pro material, and now the narrative is it should’ve happened sooner.Laughing
Poythress had an ACL injury, but thanks for playing.
So Cal has never gotten a sub 6' recruit to the NBA in less than 3 years? Why don't you chew on that for a minute, then maybe revise your post.
Lol, no I don't. That's pretty weak. Good way to back out of your silliness I suppose.
I'm not backing out of anything. You're going to believe what you're going to believe. If you think the 5* players UNC has had that stayed until they graduated are somehow different than the 5* players Cal gets at UK, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. You're going just ignore what I say anyway.
But if you think those same players would have stayed at UK past their sophomore year you're nuts.
But hey, this might be an arrangement that Roy made with those players. Seems to me he's not interested in players leaving after one season. I don't blame him, who wants to start over from scratch every year?
Good luck on Wednesday night, should be a great game.
Was Tyler Ulis committed to Towson before attending Kentucky? Or was he a 5 star recruit? Thanks for playing.
I'm not ignoring what you say, just surprised at how ignorant you are. Though I have a feeling you really aren't and are just trolling because of your dislike. I mean, you had two sure fire OAD twins stay a couple of years and then not do much in the NBA. That isn't Cal's fault. It is just who they were.
You seem to think guys like AD and Randle or whoever would have stayed at UNC three or four years because of some mystical spell Roy has over guys. The dumbest thing about it all is that if Roy truly pressured (or whatever it is you guys think goes down) guys to stay it would come out. Instead, his guys love him and come back every year to support the program. It isn't me who is believing what he wants to believe.
As for Wednesday, it could be fun. I'm not sure it will be though. Duke is a fantastic team. UNC is a bit too mercurial for me to have much faith in them.
Why does that matter? It's not like Tyler Ulis was some stud that could jump out of the gym. He was a 5'9" high school kid.
Mason would have been at UK 2 years tops. Point guards don't stay at UK very long.
No, I'm not hating on Roy or UNC.
In fact, I would kill to have 5* players stay that long at UK. I hate the turnover, but like I said earlier, how the hell do you stop it? Stop recruiting talented players?
It's easier said than done. We're lucky if we get good players for two years.
Look at Hagans, kid can't shoot, but he won't be a sophomore at UK. Anywhere else, he stays through his Junior year. But, for whatever reason, the NBA tells these kids they will take them. It boggles my mind. I think Cal would have so much more success if these kids stayed 3+ years.
Yeah, I'm not sure who I want to see win Wednesday night. I'm just hoping for one of those epic games.
Exactly.
I guess he overlooked Ulis because he's so short.
I guess Ulis should have had Towson on his list before he committed to UK so he would be = to Mason.
SMDH
It shouldn't have to be explained that there's a difference in career projection between one of the top 25 players in the nation and someone who was on no one's radar (before Self's staff discovered him while recruiting another player).
You can't make this shit up.
You're right...point guards aren't at Kentucky long. That is, the ones which are among the most elite prospects in the nation. Bizarre how that works, isn't it?
Frank Mason was ranked 120ish, and around 200 before getting the KU bump. Please give me the list of point guards in that range that Cal has sent to the NBA, period....let alone in two years or less. You're so used to Calipari having literally the best point guard prospect in the nation every year that you view near-5 star SGA as a Rudy-like triumph. RollLaugh
Off the charts homerism.
Getting Tyler Ulis to the pros in two years is amazing job .He could have done the same for FM because the kid has great work ethic and that's what it takes.
But also, why did BS settle for the 120th ranked player?
Because they saw potential in him?
It’s truly amazing how you loons can shift from “your midget PG who can’t shoot will never sniff the NBA” to “It took you four years to get that dude to the league?” in a span of a few months.
And sorry...nothing really “amazing” about getting an exceptionally skilled guard ranked 3rd in the nation into the league in two years.
Still waiting for that list btw. Since Cal is a point guard wizard, there is surely at least ONE player in that ballpark that he got into the draft going back to his less abundant days in Memphis and Umass? Hell, I’m not even holding you to the two years comment. Just anyone, period.
The bolded part sounds made up. You're acting like 1 person, me, said both statements. I certainly never called Mason a midget.
You do realize there is more than one person in UK's fanbases right? I mean, I'm not going to hold you responsible for things that Schooner said.
My list consists of Alexander and Bledsoe. Both are 4* guys. Hawkins stayed through his Senior year because he was just a backup to all the other talented guards that he had to play behind. If he was leaned on to be the lead guard, I bet he would have been gone in 2 years. It's just how it is at UK.
I wish guys would stay 4 years at UK like Graham and Mason did at KU, but they just don't.
A lot of Kentucky fans said that. I don’t keep a spreadsheet. Are you saying that you thought Mason was a strong pro prospect before his senior year?
Alexander was almost a 5 star. Bledsoe was definitely the lowest rated he’s sent to the draft, but still the 8th ranked PG in the nation and sought after. Regardless, an outlier.
Hawkins would not have been drafted after two years regardless of his role. Just stop.
Guards don’t stay at Kentucky for four years because players like Ulis (and obviously Wall, Fox, Teague, etc) are far more NBA-ready when they first step on campus than a Mason or Graham. Simple as that.
Agree to disagree.
For one thing, why is a program like KU not getting better pg recruits?
Secondly, Cal pushes his point guards more than any coach I've ever seen. Next time you're watching a UK game, just listen, you can hear that guy yelling at the top of his lungs, most of the time it's at his guards.
Shai Alexander put the work in, but he was still a 4* prospect that looked like a 2 day old baby deer trying to run point when he got to UK. He went lottery. He couldn't shoot very well, damn sure wasn't the fastest guy on the floor by a mile, but that didn't matter.
As far as guys like Marquise Teague, put him at any other program and he's at minimum a 3 year guy, at UK, gone in one year.
Daniel Orton, 4 year guy anywhere else, gone after one season at UK.
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Which is it? Do they need better PG recruits or should they all be in the NBA within two years? Good Lord.
I love how UK fans treat recruiting rankings like they're gospel. Even after witnessing #1 Skal, #8 Poythress, top 10 Briscoe, SKJ, Gabriel, Green, Orton, etc etc. SGA was a great prospect, period. Whether a website pegged him #10 or #50. Yet even by the ranking given, he barely missed the cut for 5 stars.
For every Ulis you cite (again, an exceptionally skilled guard that would've flourished under anyone), I can offer a Quade Green or Briscoe. Did he decide not to push those guys? What happened?
If Cal were so great at developing PGs, surely he would've gotten at least ONE drafted (who wasn't the #1 PG in the country) in his Memphis/Umass days? Someone? Anyone?
LOL @ Teague and Orton being 3-4 year players "anywhere else." The homerism is off the charts. Do you follow anyone but Kentucky? Do you think Josh Selby, Cheick Diallo, or Brannen Greene had any business leaving when they did?
The recruiting rankings aren't always accurate.... anyone putting too much stock into them is making a mistake. There are simply recruits that are "as advertised" and those who are not or don't live up to the hype.
They're usually fairly accurate for the top 10 or so, but it's a total crapshoot after that. The 50th ranked player could easily be a better prospect than the 25th.
But one thing that isn't debatable is that Kentucky has been the most or second most talented team virtually every year under Calipari. And in some years it hasn't been close.
Apparently he wasn't on the map.
And, switching to football here, but Patrick Mahomes was barely top 400 out of HS. Unfathomable. Especially after seeing his high school highlights. He was doing a lot of the same stuff that he's done with the Chiefs and Tech.
Stuff like that (along with the Skal experience) is why I worry about too much buy in on the recruiting rankings. I know Cal goes and watches guys he recruits personally, but it's a different ballgame for some of these kids when they get to college and they have trouble living up to their ranking.
