****Official B1G Off Season Thread****
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The 5th option vs 1st option works both ways. It helps Eli with efficiency and Trent with counting stats. If you list and consider everything it is even.
Trent Frazier:
12.5 ppg
3.1 apg
1.8 rpg
1.7 spg
2.2 topg
34.7% 3pt %
40.5 FG %
102.9 offensive rating
104.1 defensive rating
Eli Brooks:
9.5 ppg
3.1 apg
3.1 rpg
1.1 spg
1.1 topg
39.6% 3pt%
42.6% FG%
118.3 ortg
99.0 drtg
It really blows my mind you think me calling these even stats is being a Michigan homer.
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They don’t teach you simple math in engineering school? Since when is 12.5 and 9.5 a 4ppg difference?
You’d rather have a worse player because he “fits” better due to efficiency.
Illinois has a more efficient player as well, now efficiency doesn’t matter and you want the better player.
Pick a lane
I'm fine with that. Frazier was worse. Williams is better. Your logic is flawless. USG doesn't matter because efficiency needs to be taken into account, and Brooks was more efficient as the last option on offense than Frazier was as the first option on offense. Good points.
I'm just glad I can shut the door on the 5th player chosen out of all the players in the Big Ten. Congrats to the hyper-efficient role player Da'Monte Williams who is the best of the role players.
We didn't use numbers in engineering or physics classes. You probably didn't learn that at x-ray tech cc.
The average estimated range of my girth in inches.
4*, but let's get back to how important efficiency is and why Da'Monte Williams is better than Brooks because of it.
Ivey can bring the ball up. The lineup is perfect with the most efficient player and best shooter in the conference next to him.
Efficiency is a piece if of the puzzle and should be considered in context with counting stats. The same exact player will probably have better counting stats with word efficiency playing on a bad vs good team.
Brooks isn’t a ball handling guard in comparison to Frazier.
I thought efficiency was all that mattered?
Literally no one said that. We just said it needs to be part of the picture. Which in every other discussion you guys would agree that it should be part of the picture.
What are you talking about? We solved this problem. Efficiency is a part of the picture. That's why Da'Monte Williams is the 5th starter.
Personally, I appreciate you helping to sort that out. It was right in front of our faces the entire time.
And if they trap Ivey? You are trying really hard here to white Knight for Illinois players and it just isn’t working.
Me: Efficiency needs to be considered when comparing counting stats to paint a better overall picture.
Illinois fans: So you’re saying efficiency is all that matters?
🤦♂️
Illinois fans: So you’re saying efficiency is all that matters?
🤦♂️
Did anyone say he was? He is more than capable of being the secondary ball handler unlike Williams.
If efficiency was all that mattered, sure. It’s just part of the picture though.
Grady Eifert had the highest kenpom offensive efficiency in the country in 2019 if I am remembering correctly.
A part of the picture? Lol
Seems vague. But whatever it takes to justify your pick, huh?
Brooks will play very few if any minutes at PG this year.
There is a reason why and it’s because he’s not good at it…
It's really too bad that's 2019 and not 2021, or he'd hands down be the guy.
Yes, part of the picture. It helps provide context. The same exact player would put up different numbers playing on a good vs bad team.
Frazier put up 3ppg more than Brooks being the first option on a bad team. Brooks was more efficient but shot and scored less playing on a better team. Overall their stats were even.
Lol what does that have to do with anything? In everyone’s lineups featuring Brooks, Ivey is the PG. Brooks is very capable of being the secondary ball handler. Williams is not.
Trent has also shown he can be the third best player on a very good team as well.
If Brooks is your third best player this year, you won’t be the same level as you were last year imo
We are just comparing Trent’s freshman year to Brooks’ senior year. They were even. Trent had 3 more ppg and more steals. Brooks had more rebounds, less turnovers, and betting shooting percentages but 3 less points. It’s a coin flip. I don’t get the issue with that.
We know what context matters to you: efficiency (and other stats that fit shoehorning Brooks into the starting 5).
Here's the net of the net (i.e., the difference between the differences between Williams/Frazier/Brooks)
| Player | PPG | APG | TRB | STL | Ortg | Drtg | 3P% | USG | WS/40 |
| Williams Net of Brooks | -4 | -1.4 | 2.2 | -0.3 | 19.5 | -3.8 | 15.1 | -7 | 0.017 |
| Frazier net of Brooks | 3 | 0 | -1.3 | 0.6 | -15.4 | 5.1 | -4.9 | 10.1 | -0.049 |
| Net of the Net | -1 | -1.4 | 0.9 | 0.3 | 4.1 | 1.3 | 10.2 | 3.1 | -0.032 |
The separation between Williams and Brooks and Brooks and Frazier is nearly identical in some regards. Looks like the gap between Williams and Brooks is pretty big when you look at the efficiency though. 10% advantage to Williams when compared to how far apart Frazier and Brooks are in 3p%, and 4 point bigger separation in efficiency. Wow.
How did we overlook Da'Monte Williams for so long?
I think those selections are a nice illustration of a clear “Tier 1” for the Big Ten, comprised of the three teams who had multiple players. Anything can happen, of course, but I’d say Illinois, Michigan and Purdue have materially more horsepower on paper than the next tier. I expect a very fun season.
Lol this is about hypothetical teams you’d make this year.
It’s okay that you’ve dug yourself into the Brooks> Frazier.
It’s just not a good take
OSU is going to be a force. The more I think about their team, the more I think they'll be 4th or better.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling or truly believe Frazier’s freshman year was superior to Eli’s senior year.
They're fairly even really. The only difference is that Frazier is more dynamic, but he's struggled to fill the sidekick role as well as Brooks has recently. Frazier has more top end, but Brooks was more consistent last year.
Huh? You joined the conversation late and missed it. We were talking about how often freshmen come in and outperform what Eli did last season because we were discussing McGowens. Jay listed Ayo, Frazier, and Curbelo’s freshman years. I said Frazier’s freshman year and Eli’s senior year were even.
I think it's a stupid comparison because Frazier's role was drastically different. Brooks would've looked like shit on that team.
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