^ Like clockwork. Don’t worry ill edit my post above this to include you since you felt left out.
****Official B1G Off Season Thread****
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^ Like clockwork. Don’t worry ill edit my post above this to include you since you felt left out.
Personally, I think pig should be burned at the stake for his posts in regarding the scheduling a tough-non con schedule or not.
There, held him accountable. & now I’m moving on.
There, held him accountable. & now I’m moving on.
Hail and Trojan possess some sort of mental illness. As if I'm the board police and I'm supposed to set rules for other posters. It's a fvcking sports message board. Pig and any other Purdue fan can say whatever they want. I can't control and don't give fvck Pig says.
You take this shit way too seriously. Honestly kind of embarrassing.Everyone: Discussing if a weak non conference schedule is still capable of preparing a team for March.
Hail: There’s two ways to look at it. In Beilein’s case, he had a lot of March success even with playing weak non conference schedules.
pig1960: “Not interested in the semantics of how far you went in the roulette wheel of the dance”
Hail: You’re dumb.
Otte, B-Westy, boilerzz, boiler1987: “Woah, woah, woah!”
Can’t tell if he’s trolling or not.
But he had no argument against Illinois, which is smart.
Because they have no weaknesses
Jeebus! Triggered.
The point is you get better playing better competition . The young players would get better playing better competition. Someone made the point that you need cupcakes for roster development. How does playing a cupcake develop a roster? People schedule cupcakes to pad wins and allow for playing time without risking a loss. It’s definitely a manipulation to get wins - not develop a roster. And FTR I get you don’t schedule a murderers row but you could easily schedule legit mid majors all day long. Trying to defend an obvious attempt to pad a record with some bullshit about roster development is a joke.
not that difficult a concept.
Time for self reflection on my part - I’ll try to emulate Hail and condom and post 157 times the same tired drivel about Crean v Underwood or Howard’s March to the HOF. 😂
Most years they do a home and home with IU.
Everyone schedules some filler. Most try to get at least a few games in the non-conference to challenge their team and prepare them for the rigors of conference play and beyond.
So you mean like the Big10/ACC challenge, the gavitt games, and the crossroads classic?
I'll start by saying I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" answer. One can show plenty of HCs who played light OOC and won titles (John Thompson, Jim Calhoun) and one can also show the opposite (Izzo, Coach K). I don't think there is a better or worse way that can be definitively shown.
That said, (imo) it was clear in 2020 when there was no OOC to speak of that freshman around the country suffered. Look at the records of some of the teams with highly regarded 2020 frosh classes: Kentucky (9-16), Duke (13-11), Auburn (13-14) as easy examples. It is my opinion that those teams suffered from not having those frosh classes able to build chemistry and confidence over an OOC slate that would include games against "sisters of the poor". (IMO) it is those "easy" OOCs games that give highly regarded frosh the ability to ease in to college basketball. And 2020 may have shown that without those types of games a big chunk of the roster might suffer.
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In close games you usually stick to the best 8-9 man rotation you have to avoid the loss. In an easy win you get to experiment with different rotations and extend those minutes from 8-9 guys to 10-11 guys. It’s not a difficult concept.
You said you like Izzo’s model. Their average non conference SOS over the past ten seasons is 167th. Similar to Beilein’s decade at Michigan. Those coaches both schedule a lot of cupcakes with a few marquee games each season.
Izzo’s NCSOS the past 10 seasons:
190
183
144
184
157
51
303
82
109
234
Beilein and Izzo are the two most successful coaches in the conference over the past decade.
That depends on your status in the league. Many teams end up playing pedestrian opponents in those events.
Yes, and both types of games are beneficial for development and preparation. Why is that so controversial? It is common sense.
Overall NCSOS can be a flawed measure to assess whether a team "challenges" themselves in the Non-con. For example, Purdue will play 3 top 20 teams (including a top 5 team) in the Non-con this year and 2 more who are KenPom top 55. Yet, Our NCSOS won't be super high because Painter believes in throwing his "friends" at lesser programs a bone by paying them to play in Mackey. We have 3 sub 300 KenPom teams on the schedule this year, which will weigh down the our overall NCSOS.
Who said it wasn't? I guess I missed that. No one ever schedules a nonstop murderer's row.
Painter’s NCSOS the past 10 years:
234
253
313
245
239
224
144
55
77
122
So Izzo, Beilein, and Painter all seem to subscribe to the notion you don’t need a loaded NCSOS.
234
253
313
245
239
224
144
55
77
122
So Izzo, Beilein, and Painter all seem to subscribe to the notion you don’t need a loaded NCSOS.
Do you guys really just blindly stick up for pig without reading his nonsense? He’s saying there is no benefit to playing shitty opponents.
Yes, like I said, a few marquee games and then a bunch of cupcakes. Beilein’s model that he would aim for was 1 tough away game, 1 tough home game, and a preseason tournament. Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State all have pretty pedestrian non conference strengths of schedules over the past decade and are 3 of the most successful programs in the conference in that span.
And the discussion, before you and Pig took it in another direction, was that you need to challenge yourself a few times in the non-con. So we wasted 3 pages arguing while you grabbed one snippet from Pig's post to call us all out.
Classic Hail.
No, it was that playing a weak non conference schedule doesnt prepare teams for March. Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue have objectively played weak non conference schedules over the past 10 seasons. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter much because the 18-20 game Big Ten schedule is a gauntlet that prepares teams more than any non conference slate does.
Classic boilerzz. Argues how important non conference SOS then argues how flawed non conference SOS is.
And many don’t. This started with you making fun of IU’s non conference schedule.
Better tell Matt Painter
Painter’s NCSOS the past 10 years:
234
253
313
245
239
224
144
55
77
122
Beilein, Izzo, and Painter all seem to agree that their overall NCSOS is pretty irrelevant. They’ve collectively had really weak overall non conference schedules even when you weigh in the 2-3 big games they each play a year.
According to Kenpom…
Purdue average NonCon rank: 141
IU average NonCon rank: 171
Purdue Top 3 NC Games:
1.Nova/Tennessee: 9/13
2. Florida St: 24
3. North Carolina: 40
IU Top 3 NC Games:
1. Notre Dame: 27
2. Syracuse: 41
3. St John’s: 51
Purdue average NonCon rank: 141
IU average NonCon rank: 171
Purdue Top 3 NC Games:
1.Nova/Tennessee: 9/13
2. Florida St: 24
3. North Carolina: 40
IU Top 3 NC Games:
1. Notre Dame: 27
2. Syracuse: 41
3. St John’s: 51
Kenpom’s numbers don’t mean sht until we get well into the season. You know this. Only Gillinois would use kenpom or torvik right now with a straight face.
And supports our take. At the end of the day the difference between a 100 and 200 non conference SOS is pretty irrelevant when at the end of the season you’re going to have a top 20 SOS anyways because you play 18-20 games in the Big Ten.
I didn’t even look his numbers. In the big picture, he has a point on the concept. This has been talked about here by us as well as nationally by the pundits. Coaches can game the NCSOS by just playing all decent teams (50-100), but no really good to elite teams.
Edit: Just to be clear I don’t feel Purdue plays an elite NC schedule. I have generally thought that teams like MSU and UK have in the past because they play several games against the elite tier of teams.
But none of Painter, Izzo, or Beilein seemed to care about that gaming of NCSOS because they all scheduled enough cupcakes to bring down their averages to 160-200+.
I’d imagine the reason they didn’t give a shit is because their overall SOS would still be top 20.
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