Michigan was also a projected 7 seed, so at the very least on par with Illinois.
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Where has anyone guaranteed a sweet 16?
You tried to claim neither would make a run, as if there is no difference between a 5 and 9 seed.
And there is a huge difference, even with upsets.
But glad we have on record that 5 seeds don’t have anything more than a small chance at a run in the tournament. As that’s your ceiling this year.
Yes, I’m pretty sure Michigan was either a seed ahead or the exact same. Which was my point on the validity. Pretty sure most “analysts” just didn’t update any of their shit once the season was canceled. I think Illinois was 5 line based on what I saw at the time, but that’s a matter of opinion
And 6-1 sample size with relatively same roster breakdowns. So not exactly an unknown. Although not a guarantee, as it’s a sport and anyone can win.
Lol completely move the goalposts when proven wrong. What’s the percentage that a 7 seed makes the sweet 16? Not great. 4 years into Underwood, and your best tournament success is some made up sweet 16 run as a 7 seed. Congrats man. Very happy for you.
Indiana was one of the last wins in the 2020 season, so they basically made the elite eight. Not a big deal
I mean if you think they were already a 5 seed that’s different. I’m just saying that extrapolating two wins on a neutral court vs similar rated opponents is not very objective.
First 2 years was getting D-1 players on the roster and 3rd year was no tournament.
So we are judging a coach on a 1 year tournament sample?
Must suck seeing Illinois more successful post-Gross with Underwood who had to do an actual rebuild.
Whatever helps you rationalize you are a middle of the pack team
Archie had as much if not worse of a rebuild as Underwood. Woodson is taking over a great situation, and can have more tournament success in year 1 as Underwood has in his career. Not exactly hard to do when the bar is just making the Sweet 16.
You should probably just admit your “deep run” and “5 seed” comments were homer at best
I think they were already a 5 seed. Obviously that’s a matter of opinion.
But Conference tournaments would’ve shook that up a ton.
F it.
Livers would’ve been back and healthy and we would’ve won our 3rd Big Ten Tournament in 4 years. Committee would’ve realized our resume difference with/without Livers and given us a 2 seed. Michigan has made the Elite 8 and National Championship our last two times as a 2 seed so I’ll be fair since I’m not a homer and take the lower of the two.
Juwan Howard has taken us to two Elite 8s. One projected, one actual.
Livers would’ve been back and healthy and we would’ve won our 3rd Big Ten Tournament in 4 years. Committee would’ve realized our resume difference with/without Livers and given us a 2 seed. Michigan has made the Elite 8 and National Championship our last two times as a 2 seed so I’ll be fair since I’m not a homer and take the lower of the two.
Juwan Howard has taken us to two Elite 8s. One projected, one actual.
Lol we had Trent Frazier, Michael Finke, Aaron Jordan, and Mav Morgan(?) in Underwoods first year.
Winning 1 game in this years tournament doesn’t equal what Underwood has done so far, regardless of what convoluted logic you’ve decided on.
A deep run wasn’t likely, but it was a possibility. It’s not as if we weren’t a top 4 team in the following year…
Sorry your program just doesn’t have that upside right now. Maybe once you get all these 5 stars into the program.
Livers went 0-2 against Illinois that year.
Clearly the resume wasn’t as good as you remember.
Unless hypothetically speaking you think Illinois beats Iowa and Wisconsin, and then loses to Michigan in the BTT championship game.
So I guess congrats to Juwan on beating Underwood for the first time. Hypothetically
0-1.
And thankfully we play more games that just Illinois. We were undefeated on a neutral courts so the homer in me was thinking that supports a national championship. I’m objective though and settled on Elite 8 using science.
Lol yes, 1 tournament win in year 1 is exactly the amount of success Underwood has at Illinois. A sweet 16 run, and Woodson accomplishes more than Underwood.
Archie inherited a team that finished 10th in the B1G and lost 3 players who ended up on NBA rosters (OG, Bryant, and JBJ). We started Newkirk, Johnson, McBobs, Smith, and Morgan.
IU’s upside is just as big as Illinois’ this year. The difference is that we have actual recruiting classes to keep the momentum going. We aren’t relying on the Luke Goode’s of the world.
Rank these coaches based on actual success:
Brad Underwood
John Groce
Archie Miller
Tom Crean
Glad to see we both use science, I tried to be modest with my predictions as well.
Homer me says Underwood doesn’t lose to Juwan, thus we win the BTT and get a 3 seed.
3 seed is 3x better than a 1 seed. Thus we get 3 wins and an elite 8 appearance. Boom science
Id switch Underwood and Miller, but that’s just me. Archie at least has an Elite 8 run to go along with his multiple mid major conference championships.
Lol based on what? At IU alone Crean had 2 outright Big Ten championships and 3 sweet 16s. That doesn’t even include his Final 4 at Marquette. How can you logically say Underwood will have a better resume following this year barring a championship? Unless that’s exactly what you are predicting??
Archie inherited a dude who is in the NBA…
Underwood had sophomore Frazier, freshman Ayo, freshman Giorgi, and freshman Da’monte by season 2.
There is a reason that’s the highest losses for Illinois.
And no, unfortunately for you Indiana’s ceiling isn’t at Illinois’ level right now. Tough shit, at least become the best program in your state again first.
Tbh it’s because he didn’t stand out in any of the games he was playing.
So are Marquette and Dayton better programs than Indiana because your coaches went farther with those schools?
Lol what did that NBA dude do before Archie got there?
Your coach has never made it to the 2nd round of the tournament, tough shit. Would you have the best program in Indiana? Over the course of the last decade, your program would be at best 5th in the state of Indiana.
But he was our leading scorer and best shooter so having him on the floor opened up things for others. And when he was out out we only had two wings left.
If they had sustained success, yes. However, Tom Crean won 2 Big Ten titles and made 3 sweet 16s at IU alone. Sorry to tell you, but Underwood can’t overtake that this year at Illinois. He won’t win the conference, and likely won’t make the Sweet 16 (for the 1st time in his career).
Conference titles mean nothing to me with unequal schedules.
Marquette>Dayton>Indiana
Honest question, when’s Indiana’s last final 4? Was it before 05 lol
Illinois playing well without Ayo doesn’t make what I just said about Livers untrue.
When was Underwood’s last Final 4? What a stupid question. Should I one up you and ask when Illinois’s last championship was?
Let’s assume conference championships actually do mean nothing…. How will Brad Underwood overtake Crean next year who got to a Final 4 and 3 Sweet 16s so far in his career? You thinking Underwood takes you to a national championship???? 😂😂😂
If Illinois playing well without Ayo isn’t an outlier, then neither is Illinois losing to Loyola.
Would
Probably not but it’s fair to say Underwood was the second best hire that season in the Big Ten😀
2nd best that season for sure. Only one hire that season will have any sort of sustained success, imo.
Underwood has coached at a high major for 5 years, we’re you expecting final fours at SFA?
Goddamn, we have constant talk about what Illinois did 16 years but it takes even longer to get to any Indiana relevance…
Relic of the past.
Did Ohio State pass on Underwood for Holtmann similar to way you passed on Tarris Reed for Felix Okpara?
If winning the Big Ten twice and making 3 sweet 16 3 times in 9 years (after inheriting a dumpster fire) isn’t relevance, then Underwood has never come close to relevance in his life.
What do you expect Underwood to achieve this year to have a better resume than Crean? By the way, through 5 years at IU after inheriting a far worse situation, Crean had a conference championship and 2 sweet 16s.
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