Our premium board has been trash for at least a couple years now. Not as bad as the free board obviously, but it’s pretty bad.
****Official B1G Off-Season Thread****
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Yep. If I hadn't done an annual renewal in April, I'd be gone. Just barely worth the time any more. Sure wish Rivals would give me a prorated refund.
Juwan Howard is the answer. Was a short list to look up, Izzo, Gard, Howard. Everyone else was an obvious no.
What criteria are you using to make this statement?
He’s been at Michigan for 7 full seasons and finished ranked in the Top 10 twice. 10th in 2016 and 3rd last year.
Name me 10 teams who have been better overall since 2015. After the 7 I give you (Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia, Oklahoma, LSU, Notre Dame) you run into that similar with other programs.
So who rounds out the next 3 spots?
Should be easy enough to go thru the rankings (since Harbaugh been at Mich) and find who has the highest average
I think the 9 win football year + the start of last basketball season caused a lot of free boarders to pony up and it’s caused some of that.
Plus last basketball season broke some of our fanbase.
Yep. I said at the time that the #1 ranking was cool but would make the place a cesspool if Purdue didn’t at least make the Final Four. When that occurred, I said I still felt it was Painter’s 3rd best squad (at best) and no one wanted to hear it.
Nobody who has questioned Michigan in the top 10 will give the 3 other teams that they’d put ahead of Michigan because Michigan’s resumes holds when you start comparing then to those teams.
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Why not answer my question instead of posing your own? I didn’t make a definitive statement either way. You’re the one that proclaimed UM was a definite top 10 program.
Yes, I believe Michigan has been a top 10 team since then. Criteria include winning %, average finish, peak finish.
My question was posed so you could realize that other teams don’t have better resumes even if you don’t like Michigan’s. Here are what I think are the top teams since 2015. Do you think I’m missing someone? What teams would you move ahead of Michigan?
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Georgia
4. Ohio St.
5. Oklahoma
6. Notre Dame
7. LSU
8. Michigan
9. Wisconsin
10. Penn State
11. Oklahoma State
12. Michigan State
13. Washington
It’ll be interesting when you realize MSU, Wisconsin, Washington, and Oklahoma State all have 2 or less top 10 finishes too. Which is why I’m asking who would round out your top 10. Once you provide other teams we can compare resumes.
Nowhere did I say that I didn’t like Michigan’s resume or did I say they weren’t Top 10. I read your post claiming they were definitively a Top 10 program since he was hired and it caught me off guard. Watching a UM game a few weeks ago and during the telecast they showed his accomplishments and it said he’s finished in the Top 10 twice #10 one year and then last season.
At the end of the day it’s an opinion and some people value some criteria more than others.
If team A goes 13-1 for three straight seasons with no NC and team B goes 9-4, 15-0, 8-5 over the same period with a NC, I would say team A was the better “ Program” but I’m sure many would say a team that wins it all is. Neither is really wrong.
I will say that most people and myself included believed that UM would be on a tier with whoever you believe is the best programs.
Did you think when he was hired you’d be typing 7 years later that UM would be on the same tier as Oklahoma State and Wisconsin?
Well if you are disagreeing with my top 10 can you at least give me your top 10 programs since 2015? Once you get past LSU who do you think has better resumes than Michigan since 2015?
No one who has taken issue with my statement has given me 10 teams with better resumes. I’m even conceding 7 of them so you only need 3 more.
Did we break your basketball program like we did in football?
A few quotes from Painter at Media day:
"We should have won our league, we should have won the Big Ten Tournament and we should have gone to a Final Four and we didn't. Our talent was above our production."
'We have one of the best frontlines in the country, and I like our guard play. I don't like our experience (in our guards)."
Braden Smith 'is a fabulous player. How he wasn't ranked in the top 75, top 100 ... you guys will have the same question after the first month of the season.'
"We should have won our league, we should have won the Big Ten Tournament and we should have gone to a Final Four and we didn't. Our talent was above our production."
'We have one of the best frontlines in the country, and I like our guard play. I don't like our experience (in our guards)."
Braden Smith 'is a fabulous player. How he wasn't ranked in the top 75, top 100 ... you guys will have the same question after the first month of the season.'
Figured out who the one guy is that voted Purdue #1. Here is what Travis from UMHoops in Michigan had to say:
PURDUE (+4)
This is a strange year in the conference where over half of the teams should be competent, but it is hard to get excited about any team as potentially elite. Perhaps the most telling data point in this entire preseason exercise is that the two writers who cover Indiana picked Illinois to win the league and the two writers who cover Illinois picked Indiana to win the league.It takes a leap of faith to see either of those teams coalescing into a title-contending team. A leap that both teams’ beat writers weren’t excited to take on the record. It’s certainly possible, and you can build a case for either program, but the fact that those who observe both teams the closest didn’t want to pick them to win the league is a useful data point.
But the reality is that it is a really hard year to find someone else to pick. I picked Hunter Dickinson as Player of the Year which makes Michigan a reasonable choice, but I’m worried enough about the defense (and an almost entirely new roster) not to make that leap.
In the end, I went with Purdue. A group that returns a Big Ten Player of the Year candidate, has arguably the best coach in the conference, and has won at least 12 league games in seven of the last eight seasons. There’s also an impressive crop of top-100 caliber recruits like Caleb Furst, Fletcher Loyer, Trey Kaufman and Ethan Morton to fill in the roster.
Point guard is a concern, but I’ve seen Purdue win games without a true point guard before. Zach Edey’s stamina is a concern, but I’ve seen Painter-coached teams dominate through a monster big man in the middle. It’s easy to envision what this Purdue group is going to be and I can see that team winning a dozen league games because that’s what Purdue does.
Purdue’s far from a perfect pick, but I’m not sure there is a perfect pick this season.
Flying an extra 45 minutes to an hour on a private plane seems real hard. Let's pray that these coaches aren't further inconvenienced.
I think they just miss St Elmo's.
Flying an extra 45 minutes to an hour on a private plane seems real hard. Let's pray that these coaches aren't further inconvenienced.
That Painter quote really goes against your take that the Purdue team wasn’t that talented & it was just fan’s misconception.A few quotes from Painter at Media day:
"We should have won our league, we should have won the Big Ten Tournament and we should have gone to a Final Four and we didn't. Our talent was above our production."
'We have one of the best frontlines in the country, and I like our guard play. I don't like our experience (in our guards)."
Braden Smith 'is a fabulous player. How he wasn't ranked in the top 75, top 100 ... you guys will have the same question after the first month of the season.'
Sounds like you misunderstood my take.
It's also a healthy dose of coachspeak meant to motivate his team.
@boilerzz , @boiler1987 , @CardinalBoiler ....
Buddy ofmine who I work HS and college with , is working Purdue's scrimmage(basketball). If ya'll go, his name is Casey-----Get on his ass... 😎 . **** with him and yell----"Hey Casey, Krice(me--pronounced 'Chris') says you fukin suck---and your wife has a hairy vagina...."
Ok, maybe leave the vagina part out...
Buddy ofmine who I work HS and college with , is working Purdue's scrimmage(basketball). If ya'll go, his name is Casey-----Get on his ass... 😎 . **** with him and yell----"Hey Casey, Krice(me--pronounced 'Chris') says you fukin suck---and your wife has a hairy vagina...."
Ok, maybe leave the vagina part out...
Funny. I may be there. Headed up for a wedding and trying to convince the wife to stop in West LaLa on the way up.
Feel like I’ve been arguing with you about how talented last year’s Purdue team was & you saying it was the fans overhyping it because they got to the #1 ranking.
& oh please Painter doesn’t blow smoke like that. That team was insanely talented & why the end-result was so crushing. (& over half of those contributors are gone anyway, why would he say that to motivate this team?)
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I've consistently stated I thought it was at best the 3rd best team Painter has had. Was it more talented than the Baby Boilers or the Carsen/Biggie/Haas/Edwards/Mathias teams? Possibly, though certainly debatable. But it wasn't as good as those teams for myriad reasons, most notably that the alpha was an unpolished and inconsistent player who oozed potential but didn't always show it and the 2nd and 3rd best players on the rosters played the same position and couldn't play together.
Ironically, the reality that the team that was Painter's 6th or 7th most talented (if that) ended up getting closest to a Final Four speaks to just how much of a crapshoot the NCAA tournament is.
If you want to go talent alone (and not experience/consistency/etc), I'd rank the players in last year's rotation (KenPom > 20% minutes) vs those two teams as such:
Vs 2009-10
22 Jaden Ivey
10 E'Twaun Moore
10 JaJuan Johnson
10 Robbie Hummel
22 Zach Edey
22 Trevion Williams
10 Keaton Grant
10 Chris Kramer
22 Caleb Furst
22 Brandon Newman
10 Lewis Jackson
22 Sasha Stefanovic
22 Mason Gillis
10 Kelsey Barlow
22 Eric Hunter
22 Isaiah Thompson
Vs 2016-17
22 Jaden Ivey
17 Caleb Swanigan
17 Carsen Edwards
17 Vince Edwards
22 Zach Edey
22 Trevion Williams
17 Isaac Haas
17 Dakota Mathias
22 Caleb Furst
22 Brandon Newman
17 PJ Thompson
17 Ryan Cline
22 Sasha Stefanovic
22 Mason Gillis
22 Eric Hunter
17 Spike Albrecht
22 Isaiah Thompson
So, I'd take the talent level of the entire starting 5's from those two teams before I'd take a 4th person on Purdue's roster last year.
Furst and Newman are the hardest to slot because both could potentially illustrate talent but have yet to show it consistently. I forget who said it but they were right when they said talent without production is just unmet potential. And that doesn't win games.
I’ve always said it was Painter’s most talented team, not most productive. Which you’ve taken umbrage with in the past. “Our talent was above our production” quote from Painter sums it up perfectly.
Gard doesn't mind, it's just like another in-state recruiting trip.
Flying an extra 45 minutes to an hour on a private plane seems real hard. Let's pray that these coaches aren't further inconvenienced.
You guys shit the bed pretty good last year, for the amount of talent you had.A few quotes from Painter at Media day:
"We should have won our league, we should have won the Big Ten Tournament and we should have gone to a Final Four and we didn't. Our talent was above our production."
It seemed like Ivey was doing a decent amount of fücking around. His head was in the nba already. He was still great obviously but I don’t know if he was consistently locked in
OSU is expected to land their first 2024 commitment this weekend in Juni Mobley. I like the 22&23 classes a lot but with the portal it’s really hard to get too excited as many move on after their first year.
This. Him and Williams clashed a bit off the court apparently. Weird team. Definite underachievers tho.
Because I don’t care enough to research something irrelevant and it’s still an opinion even if I did.
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