Let’s play a different recruiting game!

[della]

Really? The last two years all you talked about was UT having a winning record against UK and that UT was here to stay lol. Anyway, go ahead with the schools you would pick. That’s what this thread is about!

I'm a Tennessee fan, who should I be talking about? You're a UK fan, you talk a lot about UK and I'm fine with that.
If I were a high end recruit, I'd go where I thought my game would be tweaked to make me better. Barnes makes players better. Do you deny that?

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

High end talent are getting to the NBA regardless

Ultimately it is a business decision

Ben Simmons to LSU a few years ago
Cade Cunningham to Oklahoma State this year

Both coaches weren't well known for player development.

Some on here put too much merit in coaches developing these players.
Every kid is different.

Just look at James Wiseman. Penny hasn't developed a single player at Memphis.

 

[kyjeff1]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Barnes 2020 class is ranked 4th Rivals/5th 247 in the country, so high ranked kids appear to be thinking about UT.

I think we're about to find out if Barnes is a coach that can handle a bunch talented freshmen. It's a tough road to go down, because they could put up really weak numbers individually, but still leave the program after 1 year fir the G-League and now you're starting from scratch in 2021/22.

 

[kyjeff1]

I'm a Tennessee fan, who should I be talking about? You're a UK fan, you talk a lot about UK and I'm fine with that.
If I were a high end recruit, I'd go where I thought my game would be tweaked to make me better. Barnes makes players better. Do you deny that?

Barnes has proven he can effectively develop players over a 3 or 4 year period. Most coaches can do that, but the coaches most brought up in this thread usually lose all their key players after 1 or 2 years (except Roy and Izzo). Look what Cal did with Nick Richards. The difference between year 2 and year 3 was incredible. Richards couldn't even catch the ball in year 2, he dominated the paint in year 3. Could you imagine Richards coming back for year 4?

When was the last time Cal had a guard for more than 2 years? We never get to see what these kids can do, they always leave early because they have potential.

But I do like what Barnes did with Schoffield and Williams. That was a heck of a one two punch.

 

[della]

Barnes has proven he can effectively develop players over a 3 or 4 year period. Most coaches can do that, but the coaches most brought up in this thread usually lose all their key players after 1 or 2 years (except Roy and Izzo). Look what Cal did with Nick Richards. The difference between year 2 and year 3 was incredible. Richards couldn't even catch the ball in year 2, he dominated the paint in year 3. Could you imagine Richards coming back for year 4?

When was the last time Cal had a guard for more than 2 years? We never get to see what these kids can do, they always leave early because they have potential.

But I do like what Barnes did with Schoffield and Williams. That was a heck of a one two punch.

Most coaches don't develop players as well as Barnes. I agree, this year will show more.

You know, I have never said that Cal doesn't develop players, but y'all just like to assume I did.

Good morning Jeffery!

 

[GE Nole]

Most coaches don't develop players as well as Barnes. I agree, this year will show more.

You know, I have never said that Cal doesn't develop players, but y'all just like to assume I did.

Good morning Jeffery!

I agree that Barnes is higher than most when it comes to developing players and molding teams. I’ve watched one of the best talent developers ever up close and personal for 15 years, so I know the goods when I see it.

But I also think @kyjeff1 is spot on. We are about to see if Barnes can mold higher end talent who might only be there 1-2 years as well as he can the less heralded talent. Or if he can actually get them to develop rapidly in just 1 or 2 years.

 

[kyjeff1]

Most coaches don't develop players as well as Barnes. I agree, this year will show more.

You know, I have never said that Cal doesn't develop players, but y'all just like to assume I did.

Good morning Jeffery!

Nah, I didn't say you said Cal doesn’t develop players. Just saying we rarely get to see what he can do with guys beyond their sophomore year.

Good morning back to you Miss Della.

 

[della]

I agree that Barnes is higher than most when it comes to developing players and molding teams. I’ve watched one of the best talent developers ever up close and personal for 15 years, so I know the goods when I see it.

But I also think @kyjeff1 is spot on. We are about to see if Barnes can mold higher end talent who might only be there 1-2 years as well as he can the less heralded talent. Or if he can actually get them to develop rapidly in just 1 or 2 years.

Have you ever considered Diplomacy as a career path? "della is kinda right and Jeff is too".

You are trying to bridge together a cat (wild) and a dog (smokey). The back and forth is the fun of it. Now, if you go to sound off and start singing Kumbaya will "Deathroll", you'll get my attention.

 

[GE Nole]

Have you ever considered Diplomacy as a career path? "della is kinda right and Jeff is too".

You are trying to bridge together a cat (wild) and a dog (smokey). The back and forth is the fun of it. Now, if you go to sound off and start singing Kumbaya will "Deathroll", you'll get my attention.

Haha, fair enough.

 

[Villian07]

Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that a lot of these one of dones, the tip top recruits were draft ready before they ever set foot on a college campus. Did they get better at college, of course, but the more you work on ur craft the better you are gonna get whether it is at college, the g league, post grad school.

Player development depends a lot more on god given talent and work ethic than it does which coach you play for in college, imo. No coach has developmental secrets that no other coaches know, nor does any coach have secret developmental drills that make players better faster. Talent and work ethic is the difference. Now I know everyone can spout off a few players on each side of that argument, based on the ranking coming out of high school, but as mentioned by genole after the top 3 to 5 players that are obviously head and shoulders above everyone in there class it get a little bit mirky as far as the HS rankings go. I’d say there is a bigger difference in the 3 ranked player vs the 15 ranked player than there is between the 15th and 50th ranked players.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I agree that Barnes is higher than most when it comes to developing players and molding teams. I’ve watched one of the best talent developers ever up close and personal for 15 years, so I know the goods when I see it.

But I also think @kyjeff1 is spot on. We are about to see if Barnes can mold higher end talent who might only be there 1-2 years as well as he can the less heralded talent. Or if he can actually get them to develop rapidly in just 1 or 2 years.

I think you are very much overrating Leonard Hamilton as a developer.
You only have 5 players in the NBA and none of them would be considered big time players

I really like Hamilton because he is old school and let's players understand what he expects.
Defense and work ethic.

 

[GE Nole]

I think you are very much overrating Leonard Hamilton as a developer.
You only have 5 players in the NBA and none of them would be considered big time players

I really like Hamilton because he is old school and let's players understand what he expects.
Defense and work ethic.

I don’t think you fully grasp what develop means. 3 of those 5 NBA players weren’t even on NBA radars before they played at FSU, and one of them wasn’t even on other college coaches radars. And there will be two more 1st round picks this year, another one of which didn’t even have another high major offer.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that a lot of these one of dones, the tip top recruits were draft ready before they ever set foot on a college campus. Did they get better at college, of course, but the more you work on ur craft the better you are gonna get whether it is at college, the g league, post grad school.

Player development depends a lot more on god given talent and work ethic than it does which coach you play for in college, imo. No coach has developmental secrets that no other coaches know, nor does any coach have secret developmental drills that make players better faster. Talent and work ethic is the difference. Now I know everyone can spout off a few players on each side of that argument, based on the ranking coming out of high school, but as mentioned by genole after the top 3 to 5 players that are obviously head and shoulders above everyone in there class it get a little bit mirky as far as the HS rankings go. I’d say there is a bigger difference in the 3 ranked player vs the 15 ranked player than there is between the 15th and 50th ranked players.

Plus the NBA drafts based on upside more than anything.

For a lot of these players it wouldn't matter where they went to school.
Some want to claim this because it helps with recruiting.
That is more for football than basketball.

Recruiting in basketball is more system fit and what program is willing to bend over for the recruit

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I don’t think you fully grasp what develop means. 3 of those 5 NBA players weren’t even on NBA radars before they played at FSU, and one of them wasn’t even on other college coaches radars. And there will be two more 1st round picks this year, another one of which didn’t even have another high major offer.

You can't always believe the offer list based on what 247 and rivals says.
Problem #1

Hamilton is a good coach but you are beginning to sound like Texas Tech fans.
No coach magically turns players into first round picks.

Hamilton runs a solid program and you have some players who excel.
But Hamilton always recruits athleticism.
I think that right there is the cause for draft picks more than anything.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Most of those players coming from Florida St are athletic but raw.

You are putting very raw players in the NBA more than DEVELOPED.
The development is happening in the G League and NBA more than it is happening at the college level.

We have been through this on this message board.
You can look at Montrezl Harrell who played with the great Rick Pitino.
Dude learned more in 1 year in the G League than he did his entire time at Louisville

College coaches get paid to win games G League coaches get paid to develop talent

 

[kyjeff1]

You can't always believe the offer list based on what 247 and rivals says.
Problem #1

Hamilton is a good coach but you are beginning to sound like Texas Tech fans.
No coach magically turns players into first round picks.

Hamilton runs a solid program and you have some players who excel.
But Hamilton always recruits athleticism.
I think that right there is the cause for draft picks more than anything.

Devin Booker, Shai Gilgeous Alexander and Tyler Herro beg to differ.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Devin Booker, Shai Gilgeous Alexander and Tyler Herro beg to differ.

Incorrect.

Recruiting rankings aren't always correct and for the most part coaches have their own.
So you have no idea where Kentucky had them rated as recruits.


Easiest way to get players drafted is recruit highly athletic players with upside but these players aren't always the best basketball players.

Sometimes you get things to click in at college and you can give the coaches credit but ultimately any one around basketball will tell players develop more as professionals than in college.
Mainly because they are professionals. But that doesn't mean they can't behave like professionals in college.

Problem is college coaches have limited hours that you don't have in the G League, Europe and the NBA.
College coaches don't have 247 access to players you have in the pros

 

[kyjeff1]

Incorrect.

Recruiting rankings aren't always correct and for the most part coaches have their own.
So you have no idea where Kentucky had them rated as recruits.


Easiest way to get players drafted is recruit highly athletic players with upside but these players aren't always the best basketball players.

Sometimes you get things to click in at college and you can give the coaches credit but ultimately any one around basketball will tell players develop more as professionals than in college.
Mainly because they are professionals. But that doesn't mean they can't behave like professionals in college.

Problem is college coaches have limited hours that you don't have in the G League, Europe and the NBA.
College coaches don't have 247 access to players you have in the pros

So basically, you made it so you can shoot down any name I throw out there just by saying "recruiting rankings aren't always correct". That's crap man. The bottom line is, those three dudes were 4* recruits. They weren't good enough, in anyone's eyes, to garner a 5* rating, yet all 3 went first round after 1 college season and 2 of them went lottery. I would say that easily qualifies for my point.

Some coaches can coach guys well enough to take them from 3 or 4 year college players and a G-League career to a first round/lottery pick after year one.

If Tyler Herro went to Wisconsin, he would easily be there four years and may never have seen an NBA roster. Wisconsin was his first choice.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

So basically, you made it so you can shoot down any name I throw out there just by saying "recruiting rankings aren't always correct". That's crap man. The bottom line is, those three dudes were 4* recruits. They weren't good enough, in anyone's eyes, to garner a 5* rating, yet all 3 went first round after 1 college season and 2 of them went lottery. I would say that easily qualifies for my point.

Some coaches can coach guys well enough to take them from 3 or 4 year college players and a G-League career to a first round/lottery pick after year one.

If Tyler Herro went to Wisconsin, he would easily be there four years and may never have seen an NBA roster. Wisconsin was his first choice.

Because you are trying to promote your university.
Ultimately you aren't very objective about this.

Like I said every player is different. But at the end of the day it comes down to the player more than the coach.
The point about college is just the amount of coaching a player gets isn't that much compared to elsewhere. The reason why players are going to the NBA very raw and ending up in the G League.


I will give you this.
Some coaches and programs are better at teaching players how to be professionals but at the end of the day they can't be professionals unless they want to seek private coaching because you have restrictions on the amount of time at the college level you don't have in the lri game.

 

[GE Nole]

Most of those players coming from Florida St are athletic but raw.

You are putting very raw players in the NBA more than DEVELOPED.
The development is happening in the G League and NBA more than it is happening at the college level.

We have been through this on this message board.
You can look at Montrezl Harrell who played with the great Rick Pitino.
Dude learned more in 1 year in the G League than he did his entire time at Louisville

College coaches get paid to win games G League coaches get paid to develop talent

Al Thornton and Toney Douglas disagree.

And regarding your comment about offer sheets, I’m not going by 247. I know Devin Vassell. I talk with him. I know where he took official visits in high school. It was UNF and Stetson. FSU was the only high major school, and two years later he’s gonna be a top 20 pick. That’s called development.

Bernard James didn’t even play high school ball. He went to the military, Ham placed him at TCC and then developed him at FSU for two years. Dude was the 33rd overall pick. That’s called development.

 

[GE Nole]

So basically, you made it so you can shoot down any name I throw out there just by saying "recruiting rankings aren't always correct". That's crap man. The bottom line is, those three dudes were 4* recruits. They weren't good enough, in anyone's eyes, to garner a 5* rating, yet all 3 went first round after 1 college season and 2 of them went lottery. I would say that easily qualifies for my point.

Some coaches can coach guys well enough to take them from 3 or 4 year college players and a G-League career to a first round/lottery pick after year one.

If Tyler Herro went to Wisconsin, he would easily be there four years and may never have seen an NBA roster. Wisconsin was his first choice.

Bingo. Same for Malik Beasley at FSU. 4 star kid. Not even a McDonalds All American. 1st round pick after one season and set to make bank on his second contract.

 

[Scotty00]

Most coaches don't develop players as well as Barnes. I agree, this year will show more.

You know, I have never said that Cal doesn't develop players, but y'all just like to assume I did.

Good morning Jeffery!

No Della it’s the fact that I ask about top ten kids and you said Barnes should be the choice. He’s a terrific coach but I promise you when kids think about getting to the NBA he’s not in the top ten coaches they think of!

 

[olsonab]

Al Thornton and Toney Douglas disagree.

And regarding your comment about offer sheets, I’m not going by 247. I know Devin Vassell. I talk with him. I know where he took official visits in high school. It was UNF and Stetson. FSU was the only high major school, and two years later he’s gonna be a top 20 pick. That’s called development.

Bernard James didn’t even play high school ball. He went to the military, Ham placed him at TCC and then developed him at FSU for two years. Dude was the 33rd overall pick. That’s called development.

Damn, I hated Toney’s dad lol.

Don’t blame him for playing for Ham over Lebo at all though!!

 

[della]

No Della it’s the fact that I ask about top ten kids and you said Barnes should be the choice. He’s a terrific coach but I promise you when kids think about getting to the NBA he’s not in the top ten coaches they think of!

As usual, you are wrong Scotty. Smith 5th, Cisse 8th and Charelle 10th are considering Tennessee.
#2 Banchero visited UT in October.

 

[kyjeff1]

Because you are trying to promote your university.
Ultimately you aren't very objective about this.

Like I said every player is different. But at the end of the day it comes down to the player more than the coach.
The point about college is just the amount of coaching a player gets isn't that much compared to elsewhere. The reason why players are going to the NBA very raw and ending up in the G League.


I will give you this.
Some coaches and programs are better at teaching players how to be professionals but at the end of the day they can't be professionals unless they want to seek private coaching because you have restrictions on the amount of time at the college level you don't have in the lri game.

I'm not promoting UK, I'm just talking about what I know. I'm sure other coaches have pulled off the same feat, but off the top.of my head, I knew about those three players without the need for Google.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

As usual, you are wrong Jeff. Smith 5th, Cisse 8th and Charelle 10th are considering Tennessee.
#2 Banchero visited UT in October.

I will avatar bet you Banchero come to UK before he goes to UT.

Bet? I get you're more bandwagon and won't accept the bet, but I will put up.

 

[kyjeff1]

As usual, you are wrong Jeff. Smith 5th, Cisse 8th and Charelle 10th are considering Tennessee.
#2 Banchero visited UT in October.

Jeff???

 

[della]

I will avatar bet you Banchero come to UK before he goes to UT.

Bet? I get you're more bandwagon and won't accept the bet, but I will put up.

I have told you I like you, right Lurker?

 

[della]

Jeff???

ky jeff 1, your name is Jeff, right?

 

[GE Nole]

ky jeff 1, your name is Jeff, right?

Jeff isn’t the guy who said what you quoted.

 

[della]

Jeff???

wrong cat, sorry.

 

[della]

Jeff isn’t the guy who said what you quoted.

Ok, but in my defense, all UK fans kinda look a like, ya know.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Ok, but in my defense, all UK fans kinda look a like, ya know.

Not cool Della,we're a very sensitive bunch.

 

[kyjeff1]

ky jeff 1, your name is Jeff, right?

You quoted Scotty and called him Jeff.

Damn I'm good. I have Della calling out my name when she's with someone else.

 

[della]

You quoted Scotty and called him Jeff.

Damn I'm good. I have Della calling out my name when she's with someone else.

No, you're not very good if you confuse yapping on a message board with being with someone.

 

[kyjeff1]

No, you're not very good if you confuse yapping on a message board with being with someone.

Come on Della, even you have to laugh at that.

 

[Scotty00]

You quoted Scotty and called him Jeff.

Damn I'm good. I have Della calling out my name when she's with someone else.

Did she really do that? Cmon Della!!!Laughing

 

[Scotty00]

You should call me later.After midnight if you're up.

.or not,either ways it's ok. I had a good time talking to you last time.

Just seen this man sorry. I’ve been busy as hell the last few days.

 

[Villian07]

Devin Booker, Shai Gilgeous Alexander and Tyler Herro beg to differ.

That’s the thing, for every successful 4 Star you name I can spit back a five star that didn’t like wiltjer or green or EJ or the Harrison twins. Five star burger boys that didn’t quite get that magic.

Specifically look at Herro vs Johnson last year. Both wings, Johnson was the more highly regarded player. He was a mock draft lotto pick during the first month of the season, ended up falling to the late 20s. Herro wasn’t even on the preseason mock draft radar and went top 15. So is herro a better listener than Johnson, or did johnson not work as hard? Was the coaching staff coaching them any differently? Or is it possible the high school rankings underrated herros game and perhaps overvalued Johnson’s.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

That’s the thing, for every successful 4 Star you name I can spit back a five star that didn’t like wiltjer or green or EJ or the Harrison twins. Five star burger boys that didn’t quite get that magic.

Specifically look at Herro vs Johnson last year. Both wings, Johnson was the more highly regarded player. He was a mock draft lotto pick during the first month of the season, ended up falling to the late 20s. Herro wasn’t even on the preseason mock draft radar and went top 15. So is herro a better listener than Johnson, or did johnson not work as hard? Was the coaching staff coaching them any differently? Or is it possible the high school rankings underrated herros game and perhaps overvalued Johnson’s.

Harrison twins went to back to back Final fours and set a record with 38 wins their sophomore season. Are we talking college or pros? Ppl flip flop so much Idk anymore.