The Cavs made the finals last season.
They are 8-29 and have the worst record in the NBA this year.
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LEBRON THOUGH. LeBron knows nothing about having the will to win.
LeBron Declares Himself GOAT
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The Cavs made the finals last season.
They are 8-29 and have the worst record in the NBA this year.
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LEBRON THOUGH. LeBron knows nothing about having the will to win.
But they LOST in those finals, and that has EVERYTHING to do w/ LeBron. Eyeroll
Jordan could beat a Curry/Durant/Thompson/Green GSW team with a JUCO supporting cast because Jordan wills his teammates to be better.
Is it splitting hairs when every single great to play against him, constantly points this out? Barkley, Magic, Bird, Drexler, Thomas, etc, etc...Its the first thing mentioned when speaking of MJ. His killer instinct. His motivation. How he took it personally. Its not my opinion. Its the opinion of guys who played with, and against him.
Yes all the greats have a similar drive. But to say there can't be a difference is silly. I'm not saying guys like Magic, Bird, etc, etc...didn't have the motivation and desire to win. I'm just saying it wasn't on the level of MJ's. And they themselves have said the same.
When have you ever read or heard, where MJ was accused of packing it in? Quitting ? You haven't. Some guys will to win is just stronger than others.
That ain't splitting hairs. That's telling the truth.
You put MJ on that 2016 team, and I'm not so sure he doesn't win vs the Warriors. That team had Kyrie Irving. He averaged 27ppg in the Finals. Not to mention his 41 point game, and shooting that led to the series win, just as much as LBJ. Then there was Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson and JR Smith. Its not like LeBron was playing with some YMCA dudes. Love and Irving were freaking All-Stars. Hell Love is a 5X All- Star. Kyrie was a 5X All-Star.
You are telling me Jordan couldn't have won a title, with two, 5X All-Stars by his side? A shooter such as JR Smith? A versatile, scoring big in Tristan Thompson?
C'mon, man...
Yeah I get super pissed at people who didn’t vote for Gary Johnson
You’ve made the mistake of assuming that only hardcore conservatives think people like you are bitches. In reality people all across the board think it.
Never said Jordan was a good person. He didn't coddle folks. SO what. Results is what matters, t this level. His results speak for themselves.
You telling me that LeBron couldn't beat those Jazz teams with Pippen/Rodman?
C'mon, man.
these things tend to become more embellished over time. you bring up a solid point. it has become taboo to do anything other than bend over at the feet of MJ. that's the culture we live in now. either fall in company line or your opinion is baseless.
MJ was an asshole with an extreme will to win. LBJ is a nice guy with an extreme will to win. it is splitting hairs to decide which persona leads to better team performance on the hardwood. i guarantee you there are quotes from sir charles, etc out there claiming oberon to be the best ever. it's all about what's in style. you can't show me any legitimate statistic that will ever make this anything more than opinion based. just like i can only dream of what LBJ would have done with the bulls of the 90s. at the end of the day it's all opinion. jordan isn't some untouchable mythical creature though and i say this as a person who has seen both him and lebron in their primes. they are not that far off. it's really a what do you value more type question. a unicorn athlete of the likes that has never been seen. or the greatest SG ever with a killer instinct and an knack for making plays at pivotal moments.
Jordan could have done what Lebron did with his teams in today's game. He would be virtually unstoppable, similar to James. I think Lebron could have come close to what Jordan did. I'm not sure he could win 6 though. As great as Lebron is, we can't just ignore that he basically quit in a series once. That is kind of a big knock.
Was that 2011? Mavs winning that series had a lot more to do with Dirk than anything Miami /Lebron did or didn’t do.
You are failing to mention that Cleveland also lost Ilgauskas, O'neal, Greem and West. Traded Mo Williams for Baron Davis. Changed coaches. It was more than just losing LBJ.
When Jordan left, Bulls still had a ton of pieces. Led by an NBA HOF. And a HOF coach. But even then, that team limped to a .500 start. Then got on a roll. Lost in the 2nd round. Records were similar...The teams were not. Bulls went from a huge NBA Finals favorite, to a 2nd round loser. Not the same numbers wise. But still, a huge, huge gap.
There is no doubt every team LBJ went to improve. There is no doubt he is the reason. There is also no doubt LBJ meant more to his team. That doesn't make him better.
I'm not arguing who was more important. I'm arguing who was better.
He still quit. You can't say he would have done what MJ did with that potential in his arsenal.
LBJ shit the bed in the finals against Dallas his first year in Miami. Jordan had the will to win and would of never let that happen. LBJ has been to a lot of finals but to me he gets no credit for that. The Buffalo Bills lost 4 Super Bowls, the Vikings 3, since when do we award 2nd place? I never heard or read anything Jordan said about being the GOAT, it was the media and former players and coaches that anointed him.
Not even close. The stars were getting old when MJ took over. Those last two Utah teams were pretty meh. Downside of careers etc. Greg Ostertag started for Pete’s sake. The competition today is better than its ever been, evolution and all that.
Just to be clear...
There was talk of race when someone started a Christmas thread with a racist meme.
And there is talk of race here, now that people are talking about LeBron being mouthy or whatever.
So. Two threads since the season started, and Dat brought it up initially in neither.
#dramaqueen!
I'm not sure how todays NBA guys could defend MJ of his prime. In Jordan's hey day, you damn near had to kill a dude for a foul to be called.
Hm. That’s pretty major.
While I think Jordan’s drive and killer attitude was a huge part of his overall success, it wouldn’t overcome a lot of other factors, like teammates failing or one team being noticeably better than another. It’s very unlikely, I think, that you can see a team lose in a seven game series and say that one single player let it happen, and another single player would have prevented it.
I think Jordan is the best ever of the modern guys, same as I think Laettner is just about the best ever in college... look at their accomplishments. But I also think they are both fantastic assholes who I would never want to be teammates with.
Wait you are trashing Lebron for losing a finals while ignoring that it took Jordan couldn’t even make the finals until his 7th season? Laughing
Way to ignore those 1st round playoff lossss, Borden. You are so unbelievably biased.
Ok? Iggy is probably UM's most important player. You think Rutgers most important player is better?
I think were more fouls called and free throws shot in Jordan’s era than this era.
I just don't see a team with Jordan, Bosh and Wade, losing to the Dallas Mavericks. As you said, MJ's drive and killer instinct was a huge factor in his success. I don't see tht trait allowing a team like that, to lose to an inferior team.
Could be. That doesn't mean the game wasn't called differently. It was. A ton different. Game in the 80's and 90's was much more physical than today's.
Sure the Cavs lost other pieces but let’s not pretend like any of those guys you mentioned weren’t anything but solid role players. Your initial post argued that MJ’s will to win is what stood out over Lebron when I just wanted to show you that Lebron’s presence has actually done more for his teams wins than Jordan’s presence had.
This is such hot garbage. Playoffs had their moments and it’s what you remember.
It doesn’t. Rutgers best player doesn’t improve Rutgers as much as Lebron improves his teams. Try harder.
Look at teams he leaves. Trash.
Look at the Bulls when MJ left, Eastern Conf Finals.
And I love that it’s somehow better to lose BEFORE The Finals. Lol
Yup. Not sure how bringing up Rutgers and Brazdeikas plays into this. Borden is turning into Gil.
The most powerful muscle in the history of our species is used an an insult meaning someone is weak and people who vote libertarian think it's something they should mention out loud.
Laughing @ your cognitive dissonance
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