IU and UK fans. It's time.
- Thread starter lurkeraspect84
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So your threshold for 'top talent' is top 100 RSCI?
Damn, that’s a pretty loose definition. I was thinking 5* rated only. Hell, there are 2 and 3* kids in the top 100. That’s not even an accomplishment worth talking about. All those schools I listed did the same thing 21/22 KU did.
And you're listing all these NBA players like they were NBA caliber when they came to those schools. None of those UVA or Baylor players were NBA bound when they got on campus, they made it there through great coaching and development, which is what you were originally honking about.
Also, most of those players had a cup of coffee in the NBA, you're making it seem like they were every day NBA players, that’s not the case.
The point you were originally making was about RSCI rankings in an effort to honk Bill Self. Now it's drifted towards guys that made it to the NBA. If you're going to bring up the guys that made NBA rosters from those other schools, don't you think you should list KU's too?
The more I peel this onion, the more I realize you're just creating a mountain of weird facts to suck Bill off and it's really weird.
So what if the 98th ranked player played more than KU's 56th ranked player. All that means is 2* and 3* kids were not rated properly and they developed on different time frames. It’s a weird thing to swell up over.
Man, you love you some Bill Self.
So, out of those 10 losses, Embiid and Wiggins played in how many of them? None?
But those 56th and 87th rated players on the '22 team, were only a part of 6 total losses and won a title. So Bill Self is better than Bill Self, right? All things were apparently equal, or at least they are in fairytale world.
Speaking of fairytale land, apparently you live in a world of robotic players that give the same production every night? And play identical schedules.
I think that team had 6 losses when Embiid went down. Several of which were early, before the team came together. Against the #1 SOS.
Almost as much as you love Ashton Hagans and Rafters! 🤣
I didn't say the 98th ranked player played more. I said he didn't play at all. That was the point. He was a total non-factor.
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Your first paragraph basically shits all over most of the points you have been making up to this point. Why all the fuss over top 100 players if you're just going to end up saying that players aren't robots, don't give the same production each night and don't play the same schedule?
Remember, you're the one that was sucking BS off because he won a title in '22 with less talent.
If he's so good, why didn't he win when he had Embiid, Wiggins, Seldon, Frankamp and 12th year Perry Ellis?
It doesn't matter, because the difference between the 98th rated player and the 110th ranked player is so small that it comes down to player development and how long they have been in the program.
3 of the 4 KU players that didn’t play much, were freshmen that were playing behind juniors and seniors. You’re simply creating something that isn't there. A senior that was rated 109 4 years ago, is going to be better than a freshman that is rated 87th right now. Do you know why that would be?
Why would Self… or any coach, play an 87th ranked freshman over a senior that was barely sub 100 3 years earlier?
Weird honk bro, weird honk.
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I wasn't defining it as top 100. You said those teams had lower-rated recruits. I pointed out that they didn't. If you're going to argue, you should start paying attention to the argument.
None of those VA/Baylor players were NBA-bound? Based on what? KYJeff's glance at a recruiting ranking? I think I've said twice now that Drew did a great job with that group. Bennett did too. So I'm not really sure what the point is. You probably aren't either.
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You’re kidding, right? You've been setting the bar at 100 since this started. WTF?
LMFAO, what? Please, by all means, list these UVA and Baylor players that were expected to get drafted prior to going to their respective schools.
Do you honestly think Kyle Guy and Jack Salt were expected to be NBA players when they were in HS?
The only kids that are expected to make NBA rosters are kids with 5 stars next to their name. Any kid that ends up playing 3 and 4 years of college ball, is there for a reason.
You’re willing to lie just to make Self look good.
What's weird is making up arguments as you go.
When did I say that I'd expect Self to play those guys over any of the seniors? Outside of Adams, those guys sucked and continued to suck.
The point here is that 5 of the 7 in their rotation were guys that nobody wanted out of HS. Go ahead and pretend like that's the "norm" for title winners, but that's pretty dumb.
And no, those guys don't just automatically become good after a couple years.
You’re kidding, right? You've been setting the bar at 100 since this started. WTF?
You're confused again.
I said that KU had the lowest-rated title team per RSCI (based on players that played double digit minutes).
Then you posted this:
I said it's ridiculous to claim that most title teams were built with players who "weren't highly rated at all." Because it is, unless you're defining highly-rated as just Zion or unibrow types. Most title winners had a bunch of top 50 recruits and usually multiple top 25 recruits/5 stars.
Then you zeroed in on outlier Baylor, as if that somehow proved that most title teams don't have highly-rated players. 😆
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Actually, you're the one lying, champ. Per usual. You're pretending to know the pro prospects of every player on two teams that you probably know little about.
Virginia had four dudes that were drafted; two in the first round. Two more players from that team made an NBA roster. Baylor had two guys drafted and Flagler will be too.
That's cool that Bennett decided to turn six nobodies into NBA material. Wonder why he doesn't tap into those magical powers more often? 🤣
Not sure how you define "expected to be drafted." If you're talking about guys who were on mock drafts before their freshman year started, then no. They probably weren't. But to act like none of them had pro potential is asinine.
How's it going, sport?
You missed my point. No, you never said an 87th rated freshman should play over a lower rated Junior/senior, that’s correct.
But what you are saying is, certain top 100 freshmen didn’t play (but they did play) in 21/22 for KU and that Baylor's top 100 players did play in 20/21.
BUT, what you aren't realizing, is 2 things:
1) Those KU players were freshmen, with the exception of 1 and the Baylor players were Juniors and Seniors. You’re comparing 2* frosh to 2* seniors and acting like they're equal.
2) there is little to no difference between the 87th rated kid and the 110th rated kid, but the ratings only go to 100 in your scenario. So that unranked senior that is getting playing time over the 87th ranked freshmen, is doing so only because he has been developing in a college program for multiple years. That matters.
Here’s the difference. You think top 100 kids are 'highly rated'. I'm saying 4 and 5 star kids, roughly the top 30 to 35, qualifies as highly rated.
Sorry, but 2 and 3 star kids are not thought of as 'highly rated' by anyone with common sense.
4 and 5 star kids have NBA expectations, 2 and 3 star kids only get there if they develop enough to get there.
If you're 'highly rated' and you stay in college for 3 or 4 years, you were overrated.
Wow, you simply don't get it.
Let me start at the beginning.
You were honking about Self winning a title with a lower rated roster. Basically what you're saying is, Self did a great job developing lower rated kids.
Now, keep in mind, the ratings we're talking about, are high school recruiting ratings, not where they are in college after 3 years. Those unranked KU players were 2, 3 and 4 years into their college careers, they are a far cry from their high school ratings.
Once a kid is in college for multiple years, that rating he had in HS is out the window.
The bottom line is, Bill Self failed to do squat with blue chip players, but did well with lower rated players that developed over time.
Tony Bennet, Scott Drew, Jay Wright and Dan Hurley did the same thing Self did, only they did it with more lower rated talent.
The difference is, I don't see 'Nova, UConn, UVA, or Baylor fans over here sucking their coaches off about it.
WTF? What top 100 list includes 2 and 3 stars?
On Rivals, there are generally 20-25 five stars per class, and the rest of the top 120 or so are four stars.
I never defined top 100 as highly rated. I specifically told you that and you still lie about it. This is what you do. Then you say I'm twisting something and go in circles for 500 pages.
Hilarious thing is, apparently your standards are looser than mine if you're including all 4 stars. 😆
That's not what you said, but it doesn't matter. I've gotten my answer.
No, you don't get it.
My original comment was that '22 KU had the lowest-rated recruits for a title team per RSCI. Again...talking about rotation players who actually contributed. Not fringe top 100 freshmen who were injured and played 100 minutes all year and zero in the tourney. I don't need anyone to explain to me that players tend to improve with experience. That has nothing to do with my point.
Not sure how you define "blue chip," but again....the 2008 team was his highest-rated team. 5 top 25 recruits, two top 10ish, and a few more in the top 50. Was Embiid supposed to carry the '14 team to a title from the tub?
Nope.
Gee, I wonder why we don't see those fans doing that? OH right....because they're never here at all. 🤣
Titles are titles---Who gives a **** if ya win one with 5 midgets and a ruhtard. So the **** what.
Shit Knight won a title with Steve Alford, Daryl Thomas, Dean Garrett, Rick Calloway and Keith Smart...Bench was....
Steve Eyl, Todd Meier, Joe Hillman, Biran Sloan, Magnus ****uing Pelkowski..
Shit Knight won a title with Steve Alford, Daryl Thomas, Dean Garrett, Rick Calloway and Keith Smart...Bench was....
Steve Eyl, Todd Meier, Joe Hillman, Biran Sloan, Magnus ****uing Pelkowski..
So, Jeff....since, according to you, the teams that win titles do so with JRs/SRs that weren't highly rated at all....does that mean you'd have a better shot to win by recruiting Mitch Lightfoot and Dajuan Harris than Zion and Barrett? Who knew that the secret to beating teams full of future NBA all-stars was to recruit players that no one wants?
Hot takes abound. 🤣
Hot takes abound. 🤣
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious (to some) that the ideal mix is a few elite freshmen surrounded by top 50ish vets who are great college players but not quite first round material.
TBH last team trul lead by all freshman, to reach a FF/tit;le game, was the Fab 5. I know, UK fans will remind me of 2012---but that team had a very good , and very important SR in Darius Miller, and two really good soph in Lamb and Jones.
The sample size of teams led entirely by freshman in NCAA history can probably be counted on one hand. Actually, it's probably zero. Even the Fab Five got key contributions from upperclassmen like Riley and a few others.
@dukedevilz had a great write-up about how Duke and UK were very successful with OADs.
It was a couple of years ago, but it put to bed some notions still seen today.
I watched that match. It was a month ago. UK is playing much better now that they're healthy.
Ha, Women's volleyball is great when nothing's on or to have on the 2nd screen.
