Yes, they took several months to come out and say he was banned for 2 seasons. Glad he atleast won his appeal and can play this upcoming season. The whole ordeal seemingly lasted nearly 1 full calendar year.
Avenatti says Nike EYBL execs. were willing to pay for college players
- Thread starter HRTheCard
- Start date
81 Edgewood drive
As I wrote previously, yes I've seen this picture a million times but can you actually prove that Zion's family lives here? Just because someone posted a picture of this house a while ago doesn't prove his parents were living here all season.
As crazy as opposing fans are these days, you would think that someone would be hidden somewhere in order to get a picture of Zion's parents getting the mail, in the driveway, in the front yard, back yard, etc., but there are no pictures proving this.
So again, unless you can prove this, you're just another opposing fan who will believe anything they see and read on the internet.
According to @MrBaracus , you don't need actual proof of anything, accusations based on here say is all you need.
Well see this is isn’t a court of law, so it’s not innocent until proven guilty, it’s more of a court of public opinion, and when an ex-Nike exec says that Nike schools pay too, whether it be in cash or jobs for the parents, and went on to name UK, Duke, Unc, Syracuse etc ad all doing it too, it looks pretty bad in the court of public opinion. Especially when duke and UK annually bring in top 3 classes in this pay for play landscape.
Now I know some of the fans of these schools wouldn’t believe it unless they had a video recording of someone in a nike polo handing a recruit or his family a check, accompanied with a hard copy of the check and bank security videos of said recruit or family actually cash in the check. As well as hard copy of the returned check, but Just bc this “hard” evidence isnt available doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Hell I was in the same boat as a Louisville fan. If you would have told me we were paying recruits I would have laughed at you, bc we didn’t annually bring in very highly rated classes. An occasional top 10 class, sure, but not a top 5 class every single year like uk or duke or Kansas. Hell I can only think of samuels, Siva, blackshear, vj king and bohanen as the only consensus five star recruits we had during pitino’s entire tenure, and only samuels was a top 5 recruit. Rozier was borderline 5 star after his prep year as was Anton hill and Mitchell was a high four star. Hell our best players besides the ones I mentioned were kids like Russ Smith, Montrez, gorgi dieng, Luke Hancock who weren’t super highly rated recruits. We mainly built our teams around top 40-75 recruits with an occasional top 20 guy. But then when it comes out that we were indeed in collusion with adidas providing impermissible benefits and it comes out schools like Creighton and DePaul are paying recruits as well (not to mention the bigger schools like zona, oregon, LSU etc, then it comes out Bowen was getting paid by his HIGH SCHOOL team as well as his aau team to play for them, it isn’t hard to connect the dots that the whole damn system is corrupt, it just boils down to whether u get caught or not.
If the ncaa went after and punished every school that provided/provides impermmisable benefits to recruits the ncaa tourney would consist of nothing but mid majors.
As for kids passing up money to go to duke and uk and unc to get propelled higher up in the draft, I’m sure there are a few rare exceptions that do, but I’m also not naive enough to think that UK and duke and unc are the only ones playing by the rules all while having amazing success over the past few years while pretty much every other team in the nation is paying recruits up to six figures. And not just top 25, five star recruits, but top 50 even top 75 kids. I’m also not naive enough to think that all those kids and their families and/or handlers would turn down six figures to go play in places like Miami, Tucson, or Los Angeles to go play in Durham or chapel hill or Lexington for free. And I know the UK fans love to throw out something about tradition here, but where was the unprecedented recruiting runs during Billy G and Tubbys tenure if the tradition is all it takes to reel in all these blue chip prospects. Why were wall, cousins, and Bledsoe set to play for the traditional powerhouse Memphis state before cal got the UK job if tradition is what’s moving the needle among recruits.
I’m also pretty sure players like 5 star marquis bolden and nick Richards wish they had taken that 100k right about now to go somewhere else if they didn’t already get it where they are at.
Now I know some of the fans of these schools wouldn’t believe it unless they had a video recording of someone in a nike polo handing a recruit or his family a check, accompanied with a hard copy of the check and bank security videos of said recruit or family actually cash in the check. As well as hard copy of the returned check, but Just bc this “hard” evidence isnt available doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Hell I was in the same boat as a Louisville fan. If you would have told me we were paying recruits I would have laughed at you, bc we didn’t annually bring in very highly rated classes. An occasional top 10 class, sure, but not a top 5 class every single year like uk or duke or Kansas. Hell I can only think of samuels, Siva, blackshear, vj king and bohanen as the only consensus five star recruits we had during pitino’s entire tenure, and only samuels was a top 5 recruit. Rozier was borderline 5 star after his prep year as was Anton hill and Mitchell was a high four star. Hell our best players besides the ones I mentioned were kids like Russ Smith, Montrez, gorgi dieng, Luke Hancock who weren’t super highly rated recruits. We mainly built our teams around top 40-75 recruits with an occasional top 20 guy. But then when it comes out that we were indeed in collusion with adidas providing impermissible benefits and it comes out schools like Creighton and DePaul are paying recruits as well (not to mention the bigger schools like zona, oregon, LSU etc, then it comes out Bowen was getting paid by his HIGH SCHOOL team as well as his aau team to play for them, it isn’t hard to connect the dots that the whole damn system is corrupt, it just boils down to whether u get caught or not.
If the ncaa went after and punished every school that provided/provides impermmisable benefits to recruits the ncaa tourney would consist of nothing but mid majors.
As for kids passing up money to go to duke and uk and unc to get propelled higher up in the draft, I’m sure there are a few rare exceptions that do, but I’m also not naive enough to think that UK and duke and unc are the only ones playing by the rules all while having amazing success over the past few years while pretty much every other team in the nation is paying recruits up to six figures. And not just top 25, five star recruits, but top 50 even top 75 kids. I’m also not naive enough to think that all those kids and their families and/or handlers would turn down six figures to go play in places like Miami, Tucson, or Los Angeles to go play in Durham or chapel hill or Lexington for free. And I know the UK fans love to throw out something about tradition here, but where was the unprecedented recruiting runs during Billy G and Tubbys tenure if the tradition is all it takes to reel in all these blue chip prospects. Why were wall, cousins, and Bledsoe set to play for the traditional powerhouse Memphis state before cal got the UK job if tradition is what’s moving the needle among recruits.
I’m also pretty sure players like 5 star marquis bolden and nick Richards wish they had taken that 100k right about now to go somewhere else if they didn’t already get it where they are at.
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You may be correct but the only school we know of that provided 16 year old recruits with prostitutes and then had the gall to knowingly pay recruits while on probation was Louisville. I am sure recruits are getting money from shoe companies to attend a certain school but what we don't know, except at Louisville, is are the coaches knowingly in cahoots with the shoe companies to pay recruits and their families.
I didn't read all of that, but I know where you're going with it.
Here's my thoughts on this whole thing. You can't just call someone a cheater when you don't know what they did. There are different levels of cheating. There's a difference between buying a meal for a kid and buying his parents a multi million dollar house or a $500,000.00 John Deere tractor.
If you get caught pissing in the woods, you could very well end up having to register as a sex offender. Should you be treated the same as an actual child molester?
No? Well why not? That's what you guys are saying we should do with all these college basketball schools. Y'all want UK and Duke fans to look at their programs the same way we look at UL, Arizona, Maryland and LSU when we don't even know what UK and Duke even did.
That's what we're saying, certain posters are taking these blanket statements and coming at us because apparently UK cheated even though nobody is saying WTF Cal or UK did. I want to know what UK did before I start calling my program a cheater.
Well u can add Sean Miller and will wade to that list.
As for the hooker scandal, I’ll go back to what Jalen Rose said when that story broke. He said when he was being recruited, if he went on a visit to a school and DIDNT get laid, he cut the school off his list. And that was decades ago. If it makes u feel better that ur school or every school employs female coeds to “entertain” recruits and calls them hostesses instead of prostitutes, then good for you. It’s all semantics to me.
Not to mention every single girl Katina said to have pimped out in her book won the lawsuits they filed against her stating it wasn’t true. Now I’m not saying nothing shady went on or that it isn’t morally repulsive, but you better believe Louisville isn’t the only school providing sex to recruits on recruiting visits. Hell they had them at murray state when I was in college, and murray state wasn’t exactly recruiting blue chip prospects.
Also since y’all are so big into proof, there’s no tangible proof that UL assistants paid Bowen’s dad anything. In fact he denied it not once but twice, then admitted to it around the same time frame he “coincidentally” couldn’t remember how much the offers were from the Nike schools who were recruiting his son. Also the ex assistant, Kenny johnson, who was accused of paying them 1300$ is still employed as an assistant at Lasalle, not getting arrested like a few of the other assistants at other schools involved. Now I’m not saying whether he did or didn’t give Bowen sr 1300$, I have no clue, but if Bowen sr had just got 100-150k from adidas why would he need 1300$ from coach johnson.
If merl code (ex Nike exec) saying Nike schools cheat too by Paying recruits or helping their family get jobs isn’t proof then how is Bowen sr saying Johnson gave him 1300$ proof. One persons word against the other. Ima use blueblood logic and need to see a receipt, a bank statement, and the video of the $&$ exchanging hands.
As for the hooker scandal, I’ll go back to what Jalen Rose said when that story broke. He said when he was being recruited, if he went on a visit to a school and DIDNT get laid, he cut the school off his list. And that was decades ago. If it makes u feel better that ur school or every school employs female coeds to “entertain” recruits and calls them hostesses instead of prostitutes, then good for you. It’s all semantics to me.
Not to mention every single girl Katina said to have pimped out in her book won the lawsuits they filed against her stating it wasn’t true. Now I’m not saying nothing shady went on or that it isn’t morally repulsive, but you better believe Louisville isn’t the only school providing sex to recruits on recruiting visits. Hell they had them at murray state when I was in college, and murray state wasn’t exactly recruiting blue chip prospects.
Also since y’all are so big into proof, there’s no tangible proof that UL assistants paid Bowen’s dad anything. In fact he denied it not once but twice, then admitted to it around the same time frame he “coincidentally” couldn’t remember how much the offers were from the Nike schools who were recruiting his son. Also the ex assistant, Kenny johnson, who was accused of paying them 1300$ is still employed as an assistant at Lasalle, not getting arrested like a few of the other assistants at other schools involved. Now I’m not saying whether he did or didn’t give Bowen sr 1300$, I have no clue, but if Bowen sr had just got 100-150k from adidas why would he need 1300$ from coach johnson.
If merl code (ex Nike exec) saying Nike schools cheat too by Paying recruits or helping their family get jobs isn’t proof then how is Bowen sr saying Johnson gave him 1300$ proof. One persons word against the other. Ima use blueblood logic and need to see a receipt, a bank statement, and the video of the $&$ exchanging hands.
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Well theres that pesky 30k bad loan to bam adebayo on Dawkins ledger for one. And then there’s that pesky Chicago sun times story saying Anthony Davis got 200k. And I know those things can’t be “proven” but that doesn’t mean they didn’t happen.
As for wtf they did, they were doing the same thing every other school is/was doing. You can’t trully believe that UK, Duke, and UNC could have such amazing success over the last decade, in which duke and Uk have recruited at an unprecedented level and be clean when seemingly the rest of college basketball was paying recruits or their families or handlers.
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Also I don’t consider merl codes statement about Nike schools cheating too as a blanket statement when he worked there for over a decade.
Whoever said we might as well put an asterisk on the last 20 years is right. All this pay for play stuff didn’t start when the fbi decided to step in. It’s been going on since rupp, wooden, etc probably been going on a century. Hell no one would have ever even heard of an Emory envelope or whatever if it wasn’t for UK.
Whoever said we might as well put an asterisk on the last 20 years is right. All this pay for play stuff didn’t start when the fbi decided to step in. It’s been going on since rupp, wooden, etc probably been going on a century. Hell no one would have ever even heard of an Emory envelope or whatever if it wasn’t for UK.
Why is it so hard to believe that the combination if Cal/UK, Duke/K and Roy/UNC can get top recruits? Would you rather go to one of those schools or to a school that's rarely on ESPN? Why is this do hard to understand?
As far as the Bam and Anthony Davis stuff. I think you need to look at the facts of those cases, because it seems like you're behind. Neither case had anything to do with UK beyond those players going to UK. The Dawkins tried to get Bam to go to NC State…………… so how dies that mean UK was cheating? I REALLY want to hear the explanation you have for this. I'm all ears.
Anthony Davis, who payed him? Do you know? Was it someone from UK? Nike? Cal? Kenny Payne? Cal's maternal grandmother? Who payed him?
See what I mean? Why would I say UK cheats, when the actual facts tell me different?
Show me proof that UK or Cal or Duke or K is cheating or stfu. The fact that you read the articles on the Bam and A.D. cases and came away with "Uk is cheating" tells me you either can't read or you have a clear agenda.
Do you understand what "blanket statement" means? I'm guessing the answer is no at this point.
Dude, it's one thing for a top blue chip recruit to get laid while on a visit, but if you can't see the difference between a recruit nailing a drunk college chick at a college party and actual coaches enlisting and paying hookers to f^ck underaged hs kids and their dads, then you're not very bright. Come on man.
This is what Jeff can't seem to understand. He seems to think we're in the middle of a trial.
The hilarious thing is this is no exaggeration. This is literally what it would take for them to surrender on the issue. If Jeff were a KU fan, his spin would be "KU self-reported! Can you prove that Bill Self sent those texts? The FBI labeled us victims of Adidas's schemes!! It's obvious we've done nothing!"
The "facts" tell you differently? Really?
The only "fact" in your favor is that, to date, there is no smoking gun that leads to Calipari or staff.
Other facts aren't so favorable. Such as multiple people who are knee deep in the pay for play business pointing the finger at Kentucky. Or former AAU coaches, Jay Bilas, people with connections, etc talking about how widespread and common this is.
Do you really expect us to believe you over people that literally were in the middle of it for 14 years?
And please....quit demanding proof. None of us need to prove anything to you. Just like we don't need concrete proof to hold the opinion that OJ killed two people.
At this point with the info we have, he should be providing proof that they don’t or didn’t cheat.
You can definitely imply that players were directed to Uk, regardless of whether Uk knew or not, more-so than definitely implying that they didn’t receive any benefits.
There are no signs that point to innocence nor are there any that point to guilty. However, based on the subtle comments, you can assume that something has happened. That doesn’t mean they knew or were involved, though.
No, you don't get it. It's not about anything more than plain old common sense.
Let me simplify this for you:
If Sandra Bullock walked up to your wife and told her that you cheated on her. When asked how she would know that, Sandra's only reasoning is that all guys cheat, they all think with their dicks and she saw you earlier in the day talking to a couple of chicks wearing short skirts. Jesse James cheated on her with a skank, so that must mean all guys are doing the same thing. That's the Merl Code accusation. How is it different? Why am I supposed to say UK or Mr Baracus are cheaters when I don't know wtf either of you did.
So I'll ask you, did you go balls deep in one of those ladies you were talking to earlier in the day? Is Sandra right? From what you've been stating on here for years, you're a cheater, you obviously screwed one of those skanks because someone said… ..without proof, that you cheated.
Still don't understand common sense? How about this:
You find out your wife was approached by a porn agency to go make films for money. They met with her and attempted to buy her meal. She said no. Then, two weeks later, accepted your marriage proposal. Are you a cheater now? Did she do something wrong?
The answers are no and no. And that's the exact same scenario as the Bam accusations. You want to label UK a cheater because some agent tried to push Bam to another school before he signed with UK. You'll deny the similarities between the Bam case and the one I built with your wife doing porn shoots, but they're exactly the same.
This has nothing to do with courts or how I'm seeing it, it has everything to do with common sense.
And if/when something comes out that shows UK/Cal cheated, then I'll believe it.
Y'all act like the truth will never surface. Why not, it did in all the Louisville cases, it did with Arizona, it did with North Carolina… .. so how about this, why don't we wait for the facts to come out showing UK and/or Cal is or has cheated. Why is that so difficult to understand?
So you and HRT will have to excuse us UK fans if we don't want to just throw our hands in the air like you guys and say… .. without a shred of evidence, that UK and Cal cheated.
I’m Just saying if a player recieves money he should be ineligible to play then playing said player is cheating. It doesn’t matter who paid them or corn what reason, if they get impermissible benefits they shouldn’t be allowed to play. Now obv I have no idea if ad or bam were paid or by who, nor do I know for a fact that they weren’t or if uk was involved if they were. But I do I know that despite the fact that multiple schools/shoe companies are/were paying recruits and during that time frame UK and then Duke recruited at unprecedented level every single year.
And to me a blanket statement would have been of code stopped at Nike schools do it to. Not name certain schools and claim they either pay or help with jobs.
What info do we have?
You're a guy that tried to defend UL after it was factually proven that Pitino screwed Sypher in a public restaurant, someone from the coaching staff threw hooker party's for underaged hs kids, someone in the athletics department stole golf clubs, your previous AD stole taxpayer money and while on probation, a coach conspired with adidas reps to pay a player.
You tried to defend all that.
Buuuuuut, now you… .. the guy that tried to tell us Pitino should not be fired… ..is on here trying to tell UK fans and anyone else that will listen, that UK and Cal are dirty because one guy tried to push a UK player to NC State and a guy that was as crooked as a tree branch, made a blanket statement saying all the big schools "help kids go to certain schools".
So the guy that screwed a skank on a restaurant table and allowed multiple scandals to happen under his nose is innocent, but Cal and UK are dirty because Bam was supposed to go to NCSU and some guy said "errbody does it"???
Seems legit.
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Because Sandra Bullock didn’t work for Nike for over a decade. If this was some random ass person saying this, of course it would be stupid as hell and not credible. But the source was a current adidas executive and former Nike executive.
So to relate to ur dumbazz hypothetical this would Be more like if a female co worker told ur wife u were cheating and when ur wife asked her how do you know, the co worker says, bc he’s been cheating with me.
Read the bolded part. It doesn't get any clearer than that from my standpoint. Nobody on this board knows if these players were paid, but so many are saying so and so cheated when all they have is heresay.
Now, how do we do this if "everyone is getting paid" (according to so many on this board), but then turn around and state that everone who gets paid should be ineligible? Sounds like college basketball would have to die.
Why are colleges to blame if they didn't know a kid got paid before he ever got to college?
Shouldn't we have proof before we label someone a cheater, liar, serial killer, rapist, murderer or a child molester?
***disclaimer for UL and KU fans, spare me the whole "this applies to us too" crap, no, your schools were caught on wiretaps and texts working with adidas reps to pay kids. I'm talking about the programs that weren't working with shoe companies or agents to pay kids.
But then, when the wife asks for proof, the coworker has none or won't say what it is.
If you're going to do this, don't leave information out.
Bc in the released texts KP aka Kenny Payne knew that 38/40 eybl teams were asking for “small ransoms” to keep the players families happy. Now if he went on to recruit and sign recruits from the 38/40 teams while knowing they were on the Nike take, then he knew they should be ineligible. And before u say well he might not know which players were the ones with the demands, I’ll give u a hint it’s not the bench/role players.
The whole everyone would be ineligible argument and college basketball would die is a different argument. I don’t make or agree with the ncaa amateurism model anyway but it is how they choose to conduct business. Like previously stated their just gonna be a decade worth of asterisks in the history books when all this is finally over.
You seem confused (shocker) about the point of all this. No one expects you to come around. No one expects you to agree that Kentucky is likely involved in the same murky business as virtually every other major conference team. Or to even acknowledge the likelihood that they've played athletes that should have been ineligible according to the rules.
You're also not going to convince us to trust the "hunch" (read: hopes and prayers) of a Kentucky apologist over someone who was in the thick of the business for 14 years.
We can go round and round and you can create as many ridiculous analogies as you want...it changes nothing.
But...if you had a gun to your head, and your life depended on giving the correct answer to one question (Have any of Calipari's players at Kentucky accepted money?), we all know how you'd answer.
So because people were asking for ransoms, that means every player is tainted?
If someone approached your kid, who was a 5* athlete, would you, as the parent, do the right thing? Or are we just supposed to believe that the parents are all crooked too?
Are you even reading what you type out?
If a gun was put to my head and I would have to tell the truth and answer if any UK players accepted money in the Cal era… .. is this a real question?
First of all, how the hell would I know? The correct answer would be "I have no idea, that's the truth". Duh. Are you thinking I'm supposed to have information that says I know for a fact a UK player was paid?
Truth is, you don't know either, but you're acting like you do.
Questions for you:
-have you personally witnessed a UK player take money from an agent of UK or Nike?
-have you personally witnessed a duke player take money from an agent of UK or Nike?
-have you personally witnessed a ku player take money from an agent of UK or Nike?
These are yes or no questions. You won't answer them, bevause the answers would be "no" and you would then understand what I'm talking about.
Maybe the whole sport is corrupt like you say, but excuse me for wanting to see proof of the accusation. I just don't like to label people as criminals without proof. But I see you and a few others have no morals.
I thought it was obvious that, in this hypothetical, the person holding the gun knows the answer and you have to guess correctly.
Love these double standards. KU's assistant discussing the demands of a player that didn't commit to KU is "proof" that KU cheats, but nothing less than an eyewitness account by yours truly gives me the right to suggest the same about Kentucky. Good stuff.
Btw, Calipari recruited Zion too. Meaning he was likely aware of the family's demands too. But taking that step requires the addition of 2 + 2.
I thought it was obvious that, in this hypothetical, the person holding the gun knows the answer and you have to guess correctly.
Love these double standards. KU's assistant discussing the demands of a player that didn't commit to KU is "proof" that KU cheats, but nothing less than an eyewitness account by yours truly gives me the right to suggest the same about Kentucky. Good stuff.
Btw, Calipari recruited Zion too. Meaning he was likely aware of the family's demands too. But taking that step requires the addition of 2 + 2.
Double standards? A KU assistant discussed the demands of a player that didn't even commit to KU? WTF are you talking about? Read this article. According to this, Desousa was paid and Self knew about it.
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/10/24/bill-self-kansas-fbi-trial-silvio-de-sousa
Where's the double standard? I never saw articles where Calipari knew about a player that was paid. Where are all the articles on Cal and UK? I'm seeing articles on Sean Miller, Bill Self, Pitino and Will Wade, but nothing on Calipari. So where's this double standard?
Then there's this one where they're saying BS may have paid Preston… .. no, not an assistant, Bill Self.
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2019/3/1...l-bill-self-billy-preston-ncaa-fib-corruption
There’s no double standard. I guess when we start seeing these articles come out about Cal, I'll say, "you know what, you may have been right Mr Baracus", but until then, there are no double standards, just a bunch of finger pointing and accusations based on heresay from fans of programs that are in deep shit.
Look, I get it, there's a shit-ton of corruption in college sports, but none of us knows the true facts. You're pretending to know, but the truth is, you don't know anymore than I do, you're just hoping the hammer drops on UK.
Heck, I may know more than you, apparently you didn't even know the BS was right in the middle of the Preston snd DeSousa cases. You thought it was just an assistant coach. Is your head in the sand or what?
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They may have accepted money without the knowledge and involvement of the coaches at Kentucky but there is evidence Kansas coaches have been involved in paying recruits. Thus the NCAA is currently investigating Kansas and not Kentucky.
You’re a compulsive goalpost-shifter.
Do we need proof or not? Is hearsay acceptable to use to support our argument or isn’t it?
Seaofblue.com? Really?
Of course I know about the De Sousa situation. And my head isn’t buried. BUT....where’s the proof? I’m supposed to accept a text that reads “We good?” as proof that Self cheats, yet dismiss Code’s comment aimed directly at Kentucky and “KP’s” text exchange?Not to mention, IF Self and Gassnola were talking shady business (yes, they were), Kentucky was mentioned in the VERY same text exchange as being part of it.
And do you really think Calipari was oblivious to the fact that Zion had a price tag?
Why do you keep asking for proof then citing things that don’t prove anything?
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Thought you might want to concentrate on Kansas since they are one of the six schools being investigated by the NCAA.
you got a link to where any UK fan have said Zion's family owns the house
my bet would be you once again speaking out of your ass
A long post. Bit a very good post. TBH, I don't think there's to mamy, if any, clean programs. And that includes Indiana. First off, it's impossible to know. As fans, we don't know what any boosters are doing...Or assistant coaches. And for that matter, the kid and the families. Sure as the HC, you may not be personally.involved. Hell, you might not even know. But that doesn't mean it ain't happening (paying kids). There are just to many moving parts, i.e. boosters, handlers, asst. coaches, shoe guys, family members, and of course the player themselves , to be certain. It would be awfully naive to think your school is in no way not involved, in some aspect. Rather it be directly, or indirectly.
