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Why is College basketball in decline? And...what...

Ummm, I feel like you are not remembering this correctly.

Oh, don’t worry about being... you know... factually accurate. They are in the midst of complaining about a college basketball scheme in which the NCAA colludes with refs and certain schools to make sure they win titles, and which has driven millions of fans away from the college game. Facts play no part in this.
 
Well one thing that would probably help get more viewers on college b-ball would be to start the season in January and have it end in May. Starting in November your just competing against too much, NFL, college football, NHL and NBA starting at the same time.

In January yeah you have the nfl playoffs but those are on weekends so you can have the big non conference games during the week.
 
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Oh, don’t worry about being... you know... factually accurate. They are in the midst of complaining about a college basketball scheme in which the NCAA colludes with refs and certain schools to make sure they win titles, and which has driven millions of fans away from the college game. Facts play no part in this.

Fans are leaving game. Collude? I think the refs are just easily intimidated - especially at home. Most good teams DO get a preferential whistle at home - but Duke, Mich St, UNC for 40 years (I can bring out all the Mike K and Valvano quotes from the 80's - they both recognized the dominance of UNC in ACC hoops - and both complained bitterly about Dean Smith intimidating refs) get more than a preferential whistle. The only folks who deny this are fans of Duke/UK/KU/UNC/Mich St.

I witnessed it first hand for 50 years in ACC, now after 5 in BIG - Izzo owns refs as well. Melo Trimble in freshman year led BIG in FT attempts - Izzo complained openly about how Trimble was using improper head fakes to draw blocking fouls. Next two seasons - unless Trimble got his leg broken - he was not getting fouls called on the road. Two eye gouges in Iowa, thrown to ground repeatedly on drives to hoop - with a fractured elbow in Ann Arbor- uh...no foul. The BIG refs got message - Melo gets no more free lunches at foul line. Just so blatant and ridiculous.

I am not saying Terps have better teams and were robbed, Those teams are better than ours most years,,,,what it does is lose fan interest if you know that at crucial times in games - the more nationally recognized team, esp at home - is going to get the calls it needs at all the right times. I have had this argument with my Dukie friends here in Virginia for 30 years - they always like to argue total foul calls by end of game to show how the refs call it straight, nonsense. It is the crucial calls at momentum swing plays that change outcomes. If your 2 star players get 3 fouls called on them by 2nd TV timeout in first half - THAT changes a game. Not how many total fouls are called at end of game.

It was old 40 years ago - now - I really am over it. It is just boring and more of the same. The question being discussed in this thread is why are fans leaving the game

1. Home cooking by refs - especially at home for the ESPN teams (Dook/UNC/KU/UK/Mich St) - fans of the rest of us are losing hope that we will ever again get the upset that we need to get us in Tourney.

2. 10 top high school players going to Duke and Kentucky every year - and a few sprinkled in to Kansas, Zona, LSU, Washington, and yes - even Maryland with Diamond Stone. This does not guarantee a Natty - but it does guarantee a season of breathless, constant lecturing on the greatness of Mike, Cashipari, Bill Self and Tom Izzo. For fucx sake - Duke has a 30 minute infomercial on ESPN. Including the spectacle of Mike coachin' up his one of his soon to be ex Dookie 19 year old millionaires on shooting - "you know RJ, when you get tired your shot gets a little flat - you need to work on proper arc, and conditioning". Whew - dig up John Wooden and Dr. Naismith - let em know Mike cracked the code. What time does the 30 minute special featuring Syracuse, BC, Pitt, MD, UVA. NC State, Ga Tech, Iowa, Michigan, Northwestern or 340 other schools basketball team air on ESPN?? Uh...never. If you do not see this as a clear recruiting advantage - you are in denial - the place where many people of the ESPN teams live.
 
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Lol at a Maryland fan whining about not getting an upset they need to get into the tournament because of refs. Is this what the B1G has reduced you to?
Plus Maryland never had a following in football or basketball. Geeze it is hard to read crap like the Terp is putting out. Plus calling Coach Cal "Cashipari" is insulting. Typical of a follower of a zero team like the Terps.

Geeze give me a break.
 
I’ll give it a shot.

I think a big problem is the freedom of movement rules that seemed to change the game maybe 10 years ago or a little less?

I think the thought was to tweak the rules and make the game more open offensively. The problem is that all it has done is make a lot of games turn into FT shooting contests. I don’t want to see more than 30 FT’s a game for roughly 15 for each team. When you get into both teams shooting 20,25 FT’s, it just jams up the game.

I don’t have the solution but I think the excessive fouls turn off the average fan.
 
Fans are leaving game. Collude? I think the refs are just easily intimidated - especially at home. Most good teams DO get a preferential whistle at home - but Duke, Mich St, UNC for 40 years (I can bring out all the Mike K and Valvano quotes from the 80's - they both recognized the dominance of UNC in ACC hoops - and both complained bitterly about Dean Smith intimidating refs) get more than a preferential whistle. The only folks who deny this are fans of Duke/UK/KU/UNC/Mich St.

I witnessed it first hand for 50 years in ACC, now after 5 in BIG - Izzo owns refs as well. Melo Trimble in freshman year led BIG in FT attempts - Izzo complained openly about how Trimble was using improper head fakes to draw blocking fouls. Next two seasons - unless Trimble got his leg broken - he was not getting fouls called on the road. Two eye gouges in Iowa, thrown to ground repeatedly on drives to hoop - with a fractured elbow in Ann Arbor- uh...no foul. The BIG refs got message - Melo gets no more free lunches at foul line. Just so blatant and ridiculous.

I am not saying Terps have better teams and were robbed, Those teams are better than ours most years,,,,what it does is lose fan interest if you know that at crucial times in games - the more nationally recognized team, esp at home - is going to get the calls it needs at all the right times. I have had this argument with my Dukie friends here in Virginia for 30 years - they always like to argue total foul calls by end of game to show how the refs call it straight, nonsense. It is the crucial calls at momentum swing plays that change outcomes. If your 2 star players get 3 fouls called on them by 2nd TV timeout in first half - THAT changes a game. Not how many total fouls are called at end of game.

It was old 40 years ago - now - I really am over it. It is just boring and more of the same. The question being discussed in this thread is why are fans leaving the game

1. Home cooking by refs - especially at home for the ESPN teams (Dook/UNC/KU/UK/Mich St) - fans of the rest of us are losing hope that we will ever again get the upset that we need to get us in Tourney.

2. 10 top high school players going to Duke and Kentucky every year - and a few sprinkled in to Kansas, Zona, LSU, Washington, and yes - even Maryland with Diamond Stone. This does not guarantee a Natty - but it does guarantee a season of breathless, constant lecturing on the greatness of Mike, Cashipari, Bill Self and Tom Izzo. For fucx sake - Duke has a 30 minute infomercial on ESPN. Including the spectacle of Mike coachin' up his one of his soon to be ex Dookie 19 year old millionaires on shooting - "you know RJ, when you get tired your shot gets a little flat - you need to work on proper arc, and conditioning". Whew - dig up John Wooden and Dr. Naismith - let em know Mike cracked the code. What time does the 30 minute special featuring Syracuse, BC, Pitt, MD, UVA. NC State, Ga Tech, Iowa, Michigan, Northwestern or 340 other schools basketball team air on ESPN?? Uh...never. If you do not see this as a clear recruiting advantage - you are in denial - the place where many people of the ESPN teams live.

Oh lord.

First off yes, collude. People in this thread are literally talking about making sure Dean Smith won a title in his last year (even though he coached for another... what... four years after his 93 title?) and making sure of this and that... that's collusion.

That's ridiculous, that you think the refs are really just intimidated into doing whatever K and Cal and a few others think (but not the vast MAJORITY of coaches who complain, only ESPN coaches!), or that you think the refs really give a shit who wins. They don't. It's their job. They aren't nutty fans.

The fact that you seem to think that refs are calling games certain ways to make sure star players have 2 fouls early or that they make calls to "even it up" at the end... thats such tin foil hat stuff it's hard to take seriously. The refs are on board with making sure the "ESPN" teams don't get upset?

And if you want a 30 minute infomercial (and BTW, "Earn Everything" was more like 240 minutes) then get good enough that anyone would watch it. Because let's face it, the last Maryland team anyone gave a crap about... Mouton, Dixon, Blake, Baxter, Sweaty Gary... that was because of Duke.

Seriously. I had forgotten about Maryland fans. Go throw some batteries at someone.
 
Oh lord.

First off yes, collude. People in this thread are literally talking about making sure Dean Smith won a title in his last year (even though he coached for another... what... four years after his 93 title?) and making sure of this and that... that's collusion.

That's ridiculous, that you think the refs are really just intimidated into doing whatever K and Cal and a few others think (but not the vast MAJORITY of coaches who complain, only ESPN coaches!), or that you think the refs really give a shit who wins. They don't. It's their job. They aren't nutty fans.

The fact that you seem to think that refs are calling games certain ways to make sure star players have 2 fouls early or that they make calls to "even it up" at the end... thats such tin foil hat stuff it's hard to take seriously. The refs are on board with making sure the "ESPN" teams don't get upset?

And if you want a 30 minute infomercial (and BTW, "Earn Everything" was more like 240 minutes) then get good enough that anyone would watch it. Because let's face it, the last Maryland team anyone gave a crap about... Mouton, Dixon, Blake, Baxter, Sweaty Gary... that was because of Duke.

Seriously. I had forgotten about Maryland fans. Go throw some batteries at someone.
He is burning a couch as we speak.
 
Its a conspiracy against Maryland..... It follows then from conference to conference. It must suck being them.... batteries included.

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I do like it when the refs let the teams play. It surprised me in both our UNC and UofL games. TV Teddy pretty much swallowed his whistle with UK-UNC. That was a shock! It also helps when teams can play defense without fouling.
 
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I will say, reffing must be the hardest damn job in the world. The game is SO damn fast, and so physical... watching feet and hands... that is a HARD hard job.
 
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Netflix is to blame, its sucking up everyone's time.
 
I do like it when the refs let the teams play. It surprised me in both our UNC and UofL games. TV Teddy pretty much swallowed his whistle with UK-UNC. That was a shock! It also helps when teams can play defense without fouling.

I don't like it when they let teams play tbh. I think teams should learn how to play without fouling on defense. I know I am in the minority there though. These days many teams just get physical and dare them to call them all.
 
I don't like it when they let teams play tbh. I think teams should learn how to play without fouling on defense. I know I am in the minority there though. These days many teams just get physical and dare them to call them all.
Rick Pitino. Foul so much that the refs feel guilty and let you get by with it.
 
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Inconsistant officiating. Some refs have a clear bias against some coaches. Bad refs suffer zero penalties. Hapless NCAA will not enforce the rules equally. Refs running to the monitor every whip snitch and take 5 minutes to make a decision. It just isn't as fun to watch as it use to be, and all teams are not treated fairly. The system is stacked to favor certain teams.

Dude...... There are games where officiating is pretty bad. No denying that. But it is only the people who are obsessed with blaming refs who claim the refs are ruining the game.

I would put more blame on recent scandals and how they are treated across the board. The fact that just about any player out of high school that is rated as a five star goes into college with the expectation of being there only one year. I think the college game has tried too hard to draw in professional fans by treating every five star as the next NBA all star. ESPCNN is a shithole network that focuses on individual players and hypes them up instead of advertising teams and matchups. We can focus on the rules changing and how that affects the way games are officiated, but I don't think that is the reason why there is a fall off in viewership. I would blame that more on the rise in popularity of soccer with the upcoming generation . And what particular program one follows leading to their opinions on where the game stands today.

Oh good lord. Viewership isn’t down because casual fans, who don’t even know most of the rules of the game, are upset because of how some refs call games. That’s a very Rafters take.

There are fewer recognizable names that are built up over years. The NBA is more popular than ever. Games don’t really “matter” in a way. There’s a bunch of reasons.

There is plenty of video to prove you wrong.

100 % Agree with what KYFanin NC has said.

I know countless fans of solid programs right below the KU, Dukes and UNC who saw blatant bias in the system and got jaded with preferential treatment. Now you are left with a sport that is in decline because the powers made this situation possible. It could have been a national sport. The Walton story is prime that the NCAA looks the other way.

After some time the product has flattened because most fans don't see any inclusion. And other options are better now.


And before someone jumps in, I used root for a current great power. But even I saw the rampant cheating and it got old.

Simply put, the sport caters to a select few and it is made it into the tallest midget because not many care anymore.

Joe B. Hall once told me during a long car trip that he knew, going into the game, that the NCAA would not allow Wooden to lose his last game. Even when he (Wooden) walked to nearly mid court in a live ball situation nothing was done.

To the points about biased refs (whether you support or deny the claim); UK fans no longer can blame John Higgins for such treatment anymore. I've seen video, gifs, still shots with him appearing to be errant. Maybe he balanced it later in the games - I don't know. But one fanbase has ensured he can't influence an outcome of their games again, regardless of how anyone feels from any side. I never participated in one second of it, I don't support it, but have noticed that UK fans' claims of biasness by refs is down by 71% since he's been gone.
 
Overlapping with football, which is more popular than ever.
Poor officiating.
Pricing the casual fan out.
Putting marquee games at neutral sites instead of on campuses.
One and done means the compelling names you saw develop and came back for each year are gone to NBA.
Dirty scandals.
Absurd number of teams eligible for NCAAT.
NCAA farcical enforcement of rules.
 
It’s because it’s been the same thing with the same characters for too long. Seriously, the tournament is the same who’s who of coaches from 10-20 years ago

Contenders
K
Roy
Self
Cal
Izzo

Usuals
Huggins
Boeheim
Beilein
Miller
Larrananga
Painter
Crean
Dixon
Few
Marshall

Where is the new blood? The new rivals? You can’t just run the same movie for that long and expect the audience to not get bored.
 
1. A Terp fan has no right to call Cal Cashipari...... when getting caught throwing money around in the FBI scandal.

2. There was never a level playing field...The best players have always gone to the best schools.

3. Look at the NCAAF...... players must stay 3 years and there still isnt a level playing field..... the national champion is pretty much just between the same 10 schools with every once in a while some new comer barges in like Clemson and moves someone aside to become one of those 10 programs.
 
Lol at a Maryland fan whining about not getting an upset they need to get into the tournament because of refs. Is this what the B1G has reduced you to?
It's not whining. It's reality regarding question of why fans of college basketball are leaving the sport.

Home cooking by refs and same 5 teams getting all the great players. And yet Cash and the Mike Krybaby still cannot win titles at a higher rate than when Tubby was there or before Mike became a Supreme hypocrite - I hate one and dones.......I love one and dones.

So when Mike K whines about Dean Smith getting the benefit of whistles for years - that is ok because it is your hero.

A Terp fan has every right to say whatever he wants about Cashipari. It was was not MD who threw $$ at Disousa - it was Under Armor. Kentucky fans - hahahahaha-you are and have been dirty for generations - but because you win - everything is good??

Hypocrisy is strong for Dook and Kentucky fans - GFY!!!
 
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It's not whining. It's reality regarding question of why fans of college basketball are leaving the sport.

Home cooking by refs and same 5 teams getting all the great players. And yet Cash and the Mike Krybaby still cannot win titles at a higher rate than when Tubby was there or before Mike became a Supreme hypocrite - I hate one and dones.......I love one and dones.

So when Mike K whines about Dean Smith getting the benefit of whistles for years - that is ok because it is your hero.

A Terp fan has every right to say whatever he wants about Cashipari. It was was not MD who threw $$ at Disousa - it was Under Armor. Kentucky fans - hahahahaha-you are and have been dirty for generations - but because you win - everything is good??

Hypocrisy is strong for Dook and Kentucky fans - GFY!!!
Aren't like, sixty something? You act like you are twelve with your stupid ass nicknames. Keep whining bitch. Great win vs the powerhouse Cornhuskers last night. Did you burn a couch?
 
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Ummm, I feel like you are not remembering this correctly.
You would be correct. It was Dean was getting close to breaking Rupp win total record that they made sure he won enough games after announcing retiring so he would get the win total.
 
It's not whining. It's reality regarding question of why fans of college basketball are leaving the sport.

Home cooking by refs and same 5 teams getting all the great players. And yet Cash and the Mike Krybaby still cannot win titles at a higher rate than when Tubby was there or before Mike became a Supreme hypocrite - I hate one and dones.......I love one and dones.

So when Mike K whines about Dean Smith getting the benefit of whistles for years - that is ok because it is your hero.

A Terp fan has every right to say whatever he wants about Cashipari. It was was not MD who threw $$ at Disousa - it was Under Armor. Kentucky fans - hahahahaha-you are and have been dirty for generations - but because you win - everything is good??

Hypocrisy is strong for Dook and Kentucky fans - GFY!!!

If this guy isn't 8 years old... well, that's just sad.

76021a14996696449c88266b009ed059.jpg
 
BTW, to make this thread worth something... remember those Duke/Maryland games? Those were GREAT games. Who started for them? I think I can do it from memory... Blake, Dixon, Mouton, Baxter... crap. Who was the last one?

Those were some good games. But man, Maryland fans were the worst. Ever.
 
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