Who are the top 5 programs in order?

[viviajm]

This will be interesting to see from a neutral standpoint. I think the candidates are Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky and UCLA. What I want to know is when the rubber meets the road and all things are considered from success to support to present day relevancy, how do you rank these 5 in their spot as overall best program.

In order of what?
Value?
Wins
Championships
Number all americans
????????
IMO, and you can argue

KU-the coaching tree, Allen Field House, the home of college basketball
UK-record and history
UNC-history of excellance and coaching tree
Duke- History and championships
IU-history, victories

All 5 are from states where basketball is king. Avid, knowledgeable fansffrom cradle to grave, a junior college system good teams and coaching.

 

[jhmossy]

Hey OP, am I supposed to take systemic cheating into consideration?

 

[American Male]

I've been trying to come up with a way of determining the all time best college basketball programs for a while. I wanted a way of sorting out the flash in the pan schools/periods from the teams that have consistently performed at a high level over an extended period of time. I've basically created a metric involving 10 categories. Each team is ranked in each category by their NCAA rank within that category. The totals are summed, averaged, and then sorted from best to worst.

For categories, I started with all time wins. Essentially if you aren't in the top 50 in all time wins, you have no business being in consideration for "best college basketball program". From there I added 9 additional categories. I selected these categories because I feel they represent a healthy mixture of regular season performance and NCAA tournament performance. Originally I started out with 5 categories and have expanded it from there...each category I've added has basically tightened up the top 5 and created a larger divide between that group and the rest of the college basketball world.

Categories

• All time wins
• Overall winning percentage
• NCAA championships
• Championship game appearances
• Final Four's
• Tournament appearances
• AP #1 appearances
• AP Top 10 appearances
• AP Top 25 appearances
• Consensus 1st-Team All-Americans

Other categories that I may add: tournament winning percentage (tried that, but it was skewed by some teams with few appearances and decent performances in them and I didn't want to take the time to sort those out), Elite 8's, Sweet 16's and AP Top 5's. As long as I can find compiled data on the topic and it's relevant to the discussion, I can add it.

Results (data through 2016-17 season)

1. Kentucky-1.6
2. North Carolina-2.6
3. Duke-3.8
4. Kansas-3.9
5. UCLA-4.0
6. Indiana-8.6
7. Syracuse-10.5
8. Cincy-13.4
9. Arizona-13.8
10. Louisville-14
11. tOSU-16.3
12. UConn-16.7
13. Nova-18
14. Georgetown-18.7
15. Michigan State 19.1

I'd add Sweet Sixteen's and Elite Eights, and dump " Consensus 1st-Team All-Americans"...There are several schools that have never been filled with those type players throughout the years, yet have won despite the lack thereof!!!

I'm not so sure Syracuse, Cincinnati and Arizona have had more AA's than UConn, Georgetown or Michigan State, and I don't think they have a better Overall NCAA Tourney Resume either, so I cant see any of those three ahead of them or even Louisville!!!

If anything, Connecticut should be ahead of Syracuse due to 4 National Championships...So should Cincinnati, Louisville, Michigan State and Villanova because they all have multiple NCAA Titles to Syracuse One Title, and all have as many, or more Elite Eights than Syracuse has!!!

IMHPO, I'd put Syracuse and Arizona ahead of only Ohio State and Georgetown, and I'd put Cincinnati behind Connecticut, Louisville, Michigan State, and Maybe Villanova!!!

SmokinSmile

 

[ExitFlagger]

Spoken like a true KU fan. I'm hoping you can win this year and get on UCONN's level.

Don't even know who you're a fan of. Kentucky?

If KU had just bypassed Duke and Nova and played Loyola for the national title, then it would be on par with Kentucky's early NCAA titles.

 

[5morebanners]

Sagarin just did this a few years ago. I ended up buying the encyclopedia. It's very good. All time wins and conference titles mean less to me due to competition and top to bottom strength of those members over the years. The metric that carries the most weight is championships. Wins and conference titles are good indicators of course, but NCAAT are what's important. It also must be that the school has at least two coaches with titles. Also sustained success over many decades. Don't care how many all Americans you've had, that's just asinine.
My opinion and as unbiased as you other yayhoos

UK
UCLA
UNC
Indiana
KU
Duke.

That's my order

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

If you’re talking current powers then IU is no where to be found. I have to even question UCLA. If you want a history lesson then include both of them. Duke is probably at the top. Ky, UNC, Kansas, and Gonzaga have to be up there as far as significant recent success. I don’t know how many of these programs cheat. I suspect most do. I guess it’s just coincidental that Coach K and Coach Calipari manage to get the top players every year. Success breeds success but so do the shoe companies!!

Gosh you don't know shit about basketball.

 

[choptalk]

If you’re talking current powers then IU is no where to be found. I have to even question UCLA. If you want a history lesson then include both of them. Duke is probably at the top. Ky, UNC, Kansas, and Gonzaga have to be up there as far as significant recent success. I don’t know how many of these programs cheat. I suspect most do. I guess it’s just coincidental that Coach K and Coach Calipari manage to get the top players every year. Success breeds success but so do the shoe companies!!

Gosh you don't know shit about basketball.

Brilliant response. Makes me feel so confident in your ignorance.

 

[JimboBBN]

Don't even know who you're a fan of. Kentucky?

If KU had just bypassed Duke and Nova and played Loyola for the national title, then it would be on par with Kentucky's early NCAA titles.

He’s an IU fan. We all know you’re up Kentucky’s ass a lot, though. So continue.

 

[KisteK]

Spoken like a true KU fan. I'm hoping you can win this year and get on UCONN's level.

And maybe Indiana can focus on making the Big Boy Tourney...
shit, any tourney would prob be a good start.

"Lulz"

 

[Tucson_Cat]

I’m going to assume we’re talking about all time.
1. UNC
2. UK
3.Duke
4. Kansas
5. UCLA

Before the UK fans @ me. UK has a great history & have been great for many many years. UK also have A LOT of NCAA violations & multiple probations, including 2 major one. Sorry, but that has to count against them.

Let’s get on that fake class train baby!

 

[TheDude1]

Hey OP, am I supposed to take systemic cheating into consideration?

Wondering the same, which is why I haven’t joined in.

 

[Silent Banjo]

No discussion of blue blood programs would be complete without a rousing shout out to the Maguire University Jollymen, making their 55th consecutive Final Four (Five) appearance.

 

[Da_Bull]

And maybe Indiana can focus on making the Big Boy Tourney...
shit, any tourney would prob be a good start.

"Lulz"

You know this does not affect me.

 

[KisteK]

You know this does not affect me.

What I know is Indiana has been largely irrelevant for far too long.

 

[Da_Bull]

What I know is Indiana has been largely irrelevant for far too long.

Yeah they're trying.

 

[KStateFootball82]

Seems this is an all time list thing

If we’re talking right NOW as far as best program with momentum, dominance, recent success and NOT considering the all time accolades:

1) Nova
2) Kansas
3) Duke
4) UNC
5) Kentucky
6) Michigan
7) Sparty
8) Wisconsin
9) Arizona
10) Tied: Wichita State / West Virginia / Florida

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Seems this is an all time list thing

If we’re talking right NOW as far as best program with momentum, dominance, recent success and NOT considering the all time accolades:

1) Nova
2) Kansas
3) Duke
4) UNC
5) Kentucky
6) Michigan
7) Sparty
8) Wisconsin
9) Arizona
10) Tied: Wichita State / West Virginia / Florida

I was beginning to take you seriously. Now I know to not even read your bullshit.

 

[KStateFootball82]

Seems this is an all time list thing

If we’re talking right NOW as far as best program with momentum, dominance, recent success and NOT considering the all time accolades:

1) Nova
2) Kansas
3) Duke
4) UNC
5) Kentucky
6) Michigan
7) Sparty
8) Wisconsin
9) Arizona
10) Tied: Wichita State / West Virginia / Florida

I was beginning to take you seriously. No I know to not even read your bullshit.

Oh dear. I’m talking right now as we speak tho.

 

[AWilli6995]

Seems this is an all time list thing

If we’re talking right NOW as far as best program with momentum, dominance, recent success and NOT considering the all time accolades:

1) Nova
2) Kansas
3) Duke
4) UNC
5) Kentucky
6) Michigan
7) Sparty
8) Wisconsin
9) Arizona
10) Tied: Wichita State / West Virginia / Florida

You definitely don't follow basketball.

 

[829305]

Most success, if it’s all about the title; it is.
Last 5 years - Nova/Carolina
Last 10 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 20 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 30 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 40 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 50 years - Carolina/Duke/UCLA
Last 60 years - UCLA
Last 70 years - Kentucky Winking

 

[viviajm]

Wouldn’t Carolina be better than Duke since 1979? We each have 5 titles. Jussayin.

And what I’m saying, is F Duke.

As I have said before. UCLA is not ablue blood. There are only 5. UCLA Winning a bunch of championships in a short period of time does not make a school a blue blood.

 

[829305]

As I have said before. UCLA is not ablue blood. There are only 5. UCLA Winning a bunch of championships in a short period of time does not make a school a blue blood.

 

[Silent Banjo]

As I have said before. UCLA is not ablue blood. There are only 5. UCLA Winning a bunch of championships in a short period of time does not make a school a blue blood.

 

[coryfly]

Wondering the same, which is why I haven’t joined in.

I think it should. I just don't know any school that would be considered here it would impact. I think you should write a few paragraphs about it no one will read though. Say a bunch of weird stuff as well please.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Most success, if it’s all about the title; it is.
Last 5 years - Nova/Carolina
Last 10 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 20 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 30 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 40 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 50 years - Carolina/Duke/UCLA
Last 60 years - UCLA
Last 70 years - Kentucky Winking

I'm ok with all time.

But if you really wanna get down to it, Duke doesn't need banners from before the 80's to be on UNC's level.

...or fake classes since.

 

[AWilli6995]

I'm ok with all time.

But if you really wanna get down to it, Duke doesn't need banners from before the 80's to be on UNC's level.

...or fake classes since.

And we don’t need titles back when Adolph Hitler was alive to be on UK’s level.

 

[829305]

I'm ok with all time.

But if you really wanna get down to it, Duke doesn't need banners from before the 80's to be on UNC's level.

...or fake classes since.

You were already a pretty piss poor poster to begin with, and now you have a Grayson pic to go along with your horrendous takes. Fitting.

Btw. I’m not even sure UK is the best in 70 years, but I counted that 1948 title to get you guys over the hump. Laughing

In other words, only maybe Bert actually can claim to remembering UK being the best all time. For the rest of us, it’s the Heels and Dukies.

 

[829305]

And we don’t need titles back when Adolph Hitler was alive to be on UK’s level.

Maybe call em Adolph Hitler Rupp titles, since they didn’t let anyone but the whites play back then.

 

[schoonerwest]

Most success, if it’s all about the title; it is.
Last 5 years - Nova/Carolina
Last 10 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 20 years - Carolina/Duke/UConn
Last 30 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 40 years - Carolina/Duke
Last 50 years - Carolina/Duke/UCLA
Last 60 years - UCLA
Last 70 years - Kentucky Winking

If it was all about the titles wouldn’t UCLA be #1 for 70+ years?

 

[829305]

If it was all about the titles wouldn’t UCLA be #1 for 70+ years?

I didn’t want to take too much heat, but yeah, I agree. Should’ve just rolled w it. Kentucky has never been the best. Ever. Even when it was the Jim Crow NCAA.

 

[Silent Banjo]

I'm not sure why people are attacking Kentucky for winning titles when it was supposedly so easy. It's not like other schools weren't around then and didn't have the same opportunities.

 

[JimboBBN]

Some butt hurt still going around. I’m still not sure why the UNC guys are so upset about being second best all time. Poor babies

 

[AWilli6995]

Some butt hurt still going around. I’m still not sure why the UNC guys are so upset about being second best all time. Poor babies

We’re good with that but you have a poster in this thread that gets stupid from time to time.

 

[JimboBBN]

We’re good with that but you have a poster in this thread that gets stupid from time.

One of your brethren actually got this going again. He’s usually solid, but he’s a known Kentucky hater like a lot of UNC guys are. Just gotta call it when I see it

 

[TheDude1]

I think it should. I just don't know any school that would be considered here it would impact. I think you should write a few paragraphs about it no one will read though. Say a bunch of weird stuff as well please.

Wow. Couldn’t let it die, could you. Very “you” response... try to drag something up, even though everyone has let it go, while simultaneously saying you don’t care, and adding a personal shot too.

 

[KyFaninNC]

This is how I see it. UK,UNC,KU have all maintained winning programs with multiple coaches over a very long period of time.
Duke, UCLA, IU have all been great, but only under one coach, and only during that coaches time there.

Chsmpionships are meaningless if you are wanting the best “all time” programs.

 

[829305]

One of your brethren actually got this going again. He’s usually solid, but he’s a known Kentucky hater like a lot of UNC guys are. Just gotta call it when I see it

Don’t act like you haven’t offseasoned before.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Some butt hurt still going around. I’m still not sure why the UNC guys are so upset about being second best all time. Poor babies

When you really get down to it, UCLA, UNC, and UK are the 3 best. Arguments can be made for all of them. Duke is just a tad behind.

 

[KyFaninNC]

I didn’t want to take too much heat, but yeah, I agree. Should’ve just rolled w it. Kentucky has never been the best. Ever. Even when it was the Jim Crow NCAA.

Sad little man you are. Jim Crow, really?

 

[829305]

Sad little man you are. Jim Crow, really?

I’m just having fun. I think you might be the sad one if you can’t handle a little shtick.