Which Coach Deserves the Title of "Biggest Underachiever"?

[GE Nole]

You are not wrong on this year. The upcoming season we will have top 10 talent, so anything below a 3 seed is a disappointment.

But even with grad transfers, you are the only one I have ever seen characterize the 2016-2019 rosters as Top 10-15 in talent. Typically one would think over 4 years a top 10-15 program in talent would have multiple NBA lottery pick guys. Think 1 or 2 & done caliber players or at least a 1st round pick.

Yet UF had none, while about 30 other programs did. UF simply has not had elite top 15 caliber under White & any rational objective follower of college basketball can see that.

The last couple of seasons UF has been the 5th or 6th most talented in just the SEC alone which is obviously nowhere close to Top 15 nationally.

This season he does & it’s year 5 of his system. Let’s see how the season plays out before saying he clearly belongs in the doing less with more category. Especially when he has never truly had more from a talent perspective until now.

You are the only one who for some reason thinks he belongs in this thread & I’m sure it’s purely coincidence you are a Nole...

Here’s a great site that’s completely objective, since you seem to think I’m mentally incapable of suspending a rivalry and providing an objective analysis (despite me saying I admire Mike White and would want my hypothetical child to play for someone like him).

http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php

This is preseason projections based on a combination of returning advanced statistical leaders, incoming recruits, transfers, etc.

This upcoming year, UF is actually the #1 ranked team for his pre-season projections. And just so you know this go knows his stuff, last year the top 3 were;

1. Gonzaga (elite 8 despite Tillie injury)
2. UVA (national champs)
3. Texas Tech (national runner up)

So how has UF been previously?

2019: 24th pre-season (10 seed with 15 pre-tourney losses)

2018: 17th pre-season (6 seed with 12 pre-tourney losses)

2017: 4th pre-season (4 seed with 8 pre-tourney losses. FWIW, his 1,2,3 preseason teams that year all earned 1 seeds and 1 and 2 played for the title)

2016: 34th preseason (missed the NCAAT entirely)

4 seasons and not a single one earned a seed that matched or exceeded preseason projections based on talent and advanced metrics. 2017 did end with a trip to the elite 8, so that’s nice. But maybe it would have been more had UF earned a 1 or 2 seed?

 

[UF1Delt]

Here’s a great site that’s completely objective, since you seem to think I’m mentally incapable of suspending a rivalry and providing an objective analysis (despite me saying I admire Mike White and would want my hypothetical child to play for someone like him).

http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php

This is preseason projections based on a combination of returning advanced statistical leaders, incoming recruits, transfers, etc.

This upcoming year, UF is actually the #1 ranked team for his pre-season projections. And just so you know this go knows his stuff, last year the top 3 were;

1. Gonzaga (elite 8 despite Tillie injury)
2. UVA (national champs)
3. Texas Tech (national runner up)

So how has UF been previously?

2019: 24th pre-season (10 seed with 15 pre-tourney losses)

2018: 17th pre-season (6 seed with 12 pre-tourney losses)

2017: 4th pre-season (4 seed with 8 pre-tourney losses. FWIW, his 1,2,3 preseason teams that year all earned 1 seeds and 1 and 2 played for the title)

2016: 34th preseason (missed the NCAAT entirely)

4 seasons and not a single one earned a seed that matched or exceeded preseason projections based on talent and advanced metrics. 2017 did end with a trip to the elite 8, so that’s nice. But maybe it would have been more had UF earned a 1 or 2 seed?

Talk about shifting the goal posts. Maybe you should read up on that guy’s methodology. Part of the ranking is actually based on recent historical program results. So for instance look at Billy D’s 2015 team where this guy had UF as 26th despite the fact that was arguably our worst roster both talent and performance wise over the last 20 years.

That ranking being way off might just have something to do with the fact that the previous 3 years we finished w/a final 4 & 2 elite 8’s, skewing the both the weighted program & momentum valuations which are heavily factored into these projections.

Billy D led that team to a losing record & I don’t think he all of the sudden forgot how to coach. He is a HOF coach that was hired away to the NBA. But this guy’s system says he was possibly the worst coach in the NCAA for 2015 based on his projections.

This guy’s statistical analysis obviously has its merits but it also clearly has its flaws.

I would argue the 2016 projection was way off & equally skewed for this very same reason. The 2013-2014 results should not be measured as part of the 2016 projection strictly as measure of talent-level.

And yet that is exactly how this measure was developed & how you are now trying to twist it in regards to Mike White. That Florida team was never projected to be a tourney team by anyone pre-season & finished appropriately. The NIT first year was inline with all projections & expectations.

In 2017 UF made the elite 8. In 2018 & 2019 UF finished between 17th-32nd. All 3 of those years the team finished almost exactly how they were projected to finish even under this flawed measure.

Again nobody, whether it be Vegas, experts or the recruiting services have UF as being top 10-15 in talent these last 4 years. This year they do, so I would argue this is finally White’s first attempt ever at playing with more...

 

[GE Nole]

Talk about shifting the goal posts. Maybe you should read up on that guy’s methodology. Part of the ranking is actually based on recent historical program results. So for instance look at Billy D’s 2015 team where this guy had UF as 26th despite the fact that was arguably our worst roster both talent and performance wise over the last 20 years.

That ranking being way off might just have something to do with the fact that the previous 3 years we finished w/a final 4 & 2 elite 8’s, skewing the both the weighted program & momentum valuations which are heavily factored into these projections.

Billy D led that team to a losing record & I don’t think he all of the sudden forgot how to coach. He is a HOF coach that was hired away to the NBA. But this guy’s system says he was possibly the worst coach in the NCAA for 2015 based on his projections.

This guy’s statistical analysis obviously has its merits but it also clearly has its flaws.

I would argue the 2016 projection was way off & equally skewed for this very same reason. The 2013-2014 results should not be measured as part of the 2016 projection strictly as measure of talent-level.

And yet that is exactly how this measure was developed & how you are now trying to twist it in regards to Mike White. That Florida team was never projected to be a tourney team by anyone pre-season & finished appropriately. The NIT first year was inline with all projections & expectations.

In 2017 UF made the elite 8. In 2018 & 2019 UF finished between 17th-32nd. All 3 of those years the team finished almost exactly how they were projected to finish even under this flawed measure.

Again nobody, whether it be Vegas, experts or the recruiting services have UF as being top 10-15 in talent these last 4 years. This year they do, so I would argue this is finally White’s first attempt ever at playing with more...

Obviously we are gonna just agree to disagree. Your biased opinion towards UF is slanting your perspective. A 10 seed with 15 losses isn’t a top 30 team. A 6 seed is barely a top 25 team.

You talked earlier about not having legit talent—Andrew Nembhard was universally described as an elite recruit and talked about as potential one and done.

I’m not suggesting Mike White has been terrible. I’ve been stating that he hasn’t achieved as much as he should have given the talent, resources available to him at UF, and relative lack of in-conference elite programs to compete with.

The good news is, he’s still young and obviously knows a ton about basketball. Talk to him for 2 minutes and it’s easy to see. He just needs to get a bit better at establishing a true culture on the team, getting UF to have a true identity.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Define underachieving....

Is it a guy who wins 82% of his games, but has zero titles? Or a guy whos won 67% of his games, but has two national titles?

So is it underachieving when you don't win a title, when you probably should have? Only have "X" amount of title(s,) even though you've had a pipeline of great talent? Even though you've won at a very, very high rate....????

Are we basing this on tournament success? Regular season? Combination?

I'm leery of the word "underachiever". To me its just a nice way of saying---"you ain't as good as we/you thought". Guys like Self, Cal, K, Izzo, etc, etc....aren't underachievers. All are HOF dudes....All have been to multiple FF's....Won at least a title...have won consistently over a long period of time. For anyone to say as such, is stupid. With that being said, guys like Smart, White, or whomever else has been mentioned, aren't underachievers either---IMO. Thy just simply aren't as good as thought.

To me, pretty simple.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Is it true Brad Calipari is about to play for Mike Davis @ Detroit Mercy?

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It's a head-scratcher, especially for a kid that wants to be a coach. Maybe he wants to learn how not to do it.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It's a head-scratcher, especially for a kid that wants to be a coach. Maybe he wants to learn how not to do it.

Ya know, Kev----I've always thought Davis was a solid coach. He was just in waaaaay over his head at Indiana. I would loved to had him as a coach, under different circumstances, and with more experience....