Top 3 Returning Players

[RR30]

Kentucky will have a good team next year,
But this is the first time in a few years that I’m not really all that worried about our squad playing them. We match up super well to them, especially with our wings and front court.

Yeah I completely disagree, especially if UK gets Blackshear. Add in the fact that the game is at Rupp and I bet UK is a 5+ point favorite come December. But you guys will definitely take a big step up, especially if Nwora takes the next step to All ACC/American that could happen.

No, no.....not "GETTING" there----But getting DRAFTED. Just wanna be clear, on that.

And to be clear---I really like Hagans. Defensively, that is. He'll have to hit shots though. Or teams will simply sit back on him. I see no scenario where Richards gets drafted in 2020. For one, too many dudes ahead of him. Seondly, he's very offensively challenged. Just don't see it.

Richards won't get drafted but he's got a very good touch offensively. His problem is he has zero basketball IQ and his reaction time is atrocious. Which is a real shame because he could be better than WCS was defensively here.

 

[HRTheCard]

Yeah I completely disagree, especially if UK gets Blackshear. Add in the fact that the game is at Rupp and I bet UK is a 5+ point favorite come December. But you guys will definitely take a big step up, especially if Nwora takes the next step to All ACC/American that could happen.



Richards won't get drafted but he's got a very good touch offensively. His problem is he has zero basketball IQ and his reaction time is atrocious. Which is a real shame because he could be better than WCS was defensively here.

So basically you’re saying Uk will be a 2pt favorite. Is that not close to what he said? 2pts is pretty even.

 

[UL_1986]

Yeah I completely disagree, especially if UK gets Blackshear. Add in the fact that the game is at Rupp and I bet UK is a 5+ point favorite come December. But you guys will definitely take a big step up, especially if Nwora takes the next step to All ACC/American that could happen.



Richards won't get drafted but he's got a very good touch offensively. His problem is he has zero basketball IQ and his reaction time is atrocious. Which is a real shame because he could be better than WCS was defensively here.

Gotta disagree my man, I think our bigs are more talented and our wings are pretty much even if not better with Williamson/Nwora/Sutton combo. The only strength I see over us is at the guard position with Hagans. Unless he drastically improves his shot, he doesn’t concern me much either. Still gonna be a close game at Rupp.

 

[BasketBallJunkie-UK]

I didn't know you were related to Blackshear and knew more than the rest. If that's the case, why did he visit Arkansas and Tennessee then? They aren't headed to the FF yet he visited them. Courtesy visits as well?

I think Evan Daniels knows more than you and he said it COULD happen. Never said it would. Never said it was planned. Also, you don't know what the heck it would be for, LOL.

Your post is so homerish. Once again, all opinionated trying to pass as fact.

Here you go again stating my opinion as facts I posted. If you see quotes, then its probably 95% fact. If not its my opinion.... Does it bother you than I am a UK homer...get over it..

 

[RR30]

So basically you’re saying Uk will be a 2pt favorite. Is that not close to what he said? 2pts is pretty even.

5+ as in at least 5 is close?

Gotta disagree my man, I think our bigs are more talented and our wings are pretty much even if not better with Williamson/Nwora/Sutton combo. The only strength I see over us is at the guard position with Hagans. Unless he drastically improves his shot, he doesn’t concern me much either. Still gonna be a close game at Rupp.

If we get Blackshear (a big if) I think that gives UK the edge. All four bigs will have college experience which I don't think has ever happened under Cal. I expect EJ to make a big jump this year. Sestina should be a good floor spacer at the 4/5. Richards is... well he should be able to block some shots every now and then.
I would give you guys the edge at the wings with Nwora who like I said could/should be an First Team All ACC player this year. UK will have growing pains with three freshman likely to play the three, but Whitney might be the most talented of the bunch.
As for the guards, well I think UK has a big edge there. Hagans won SEC DPoY (even if he shouldn't have) and UK is adding Maxey who I expect to be the best player on the team next year. Add in Quickley who showed flashes and Juzang as the shooter off the bench.

 

[HRTheCard]

5+ as in at least 5 is close?



If we get Blackshear (a big if) I think that gives UK the edge. All four bigs will have college experience which I don't think has ever happened under Cal. I expect EJ to make a big jump this year. Sestina should be a good floor spacer at the 4/5. Richards is... well he should be able to block some shots every now and then.
I would give you guys the edge at the wings with Nwora who like I said could/should be an First Team All ACC player this year. UK will have growing pains with three freshman likely to play the three, but Whitney might be the most talented of the bunch.
As for the guards, well I think UK has a big edge there. Hagans won SEC DPoY (even if he shouldn't have) and UK is adding Maxey who I expect to be the best player on the team next year. Add in Quickley who showed flashes and Juzang as the shooter off the bench.

Yeah but 3 is for homecourt. Neutral court would be 2pt, in theory. I think that's pretty even. Although, we are only talking hypotheticals here. It could be way different come game day. It's hard enough to project our team, but I would say it's just as hard, if not harder to project yours even with KB.

 

[UL_1986]

Yeah, it’s all up in the air. Only edge I’d really give is its at Rupp. Gonna be a barn burner though. Looking forward to it.

 

[JimboBBN]

Hagans
Montgomery
Quickley

If we get Blackshear I'm really not sure how much Richards will play. Our front court is stacked.

 

[JimboBBN]

Yeah, it’s all up in the air. Only edge I’d really give is its at Rupp. Gonna be a barn burner though. Looking forward to it.

Could be the best game since the 2012 Final Four game. As far as both teams being very good, top 5 squads. Most of the games we have are competitive, not all of them have two final four contenders.

 

[GE Nole]

FSU is:

1. Trent Forrest (sr)
2. M.J. Walker (jr)
3. RaiQuan Gray (redshirt soph)

Forrest, for my money, is the best returning PG in the ACC when you factor in offense and defense. He played nearly all of last year on a bum wheel that ultimately needed surgery and still took over games at times.

I went back and forth between Gray and Devin Vassell. Vassell has more NBA potential, but Gray is critical to our “positionless” system where we switch on everything. Idk...I may change my mind after watching some offseason workouts.

 

[GE Nole]

Obviously not a strong returning 3 for Duke. I'd say Tre Jones, Javin DeLaurier, and maybe Jack White if he can re-gain his confidence that he had in the OOC season. For team's around the country I'll go with...

My top 10
1. Michigan State: Cassius Winston, Josh Langford, Xavier Tillman
2. Kansas: Udoka Azbuike, Devon Dotson, Silvio De Sousa
3. Maryland: Anthony Cowan, Jalen Smith, Eric Ayala
4. Louisville: Jordan Nwora, Steven Enoch, Dwayne Sutton
5. LSU: Skylar Mays, Javonte Smart, Emmitt Williams
6. Seton Hall: Myles Powell, Myles Cale, Sandro M.
7. Illinois: Ayo Dosunmu, Trent Frazier, Giorgi B.
8. Utah State: Sam Merrill. Neemias Queta, Diogo Brito
9. Baylor: Tristan Clark, Mario Kegler, Jared Butler
10. Saint Mary's: Jordan Ford, Malik Fitts, Tanner Krebs

Next 10, not in order: Notre Dame, Creighton, Michigan, Purdue, Oregon State, Belmont, Gonzaga, Xavier, New Mexico State, Alabama

Admittedly I don’t know much about Alabama and Oregon State, or even New Mexico State, but are those three really better than what FSU is bringing back?

 

[HRTheCard]

Hagans
Montgomery
Quickley

If we get Blackshear I'm really not sure how much Richards will play. Our front court is stacked.

I could see Richards leaving tbh

 

[JC for 3]

CATS win with or without Blackshear. 74-66.

 

[Hacksaw Jim]

That's not actually true though. Michigan State has won 8 out of the last 11 meetings. Besides a 3-game streak 2 seasons ago, Michigan hadn't beat MSU since 2014.

But you know how Michigan fans are...they only remember the good times. And then they extrapolate them across their entire history.

Shit, I saw a guy in Chicago wearing a Michigan football 2004 Big Ten champs t-shirt the other day. And he wasn’t even homeless (I don’t think)

 

[MileHighSpartan]

But you know how Michigan fans are...they only remember the good times. And then they extrapolate them across their entire history

To be fair, it was a Louisville fan that made that uneducated comment

 

[Hacksaw Jim]

To be fair, it was a Louisville fan that made that uneducated comment

Ahhh, you’re right. I was reading quickly, and thought it was the Michigan fan who was fervently posting.

 

[dukedevilz]

Admittedly I don’t know much about Alabama and Oregon State, or even New Mexico State, but are those three really better than what FSU is bringing back?

I think so, but I've been wrong before. I compiled the majority of my list in my head while giving a bath to my 2 year-old lol. I assume FSU's top 3 is Forrest, Walker, and Vassell? Forrest I think could be an All-ACC player. Not sure about Walker, he's been really inconsistent. Vassell has a nice shooting touch. Didn't see enough of him to get a feel for his game, though.

NMSU is bringing back their whole team, went 30-5 last year and they easily could have beaten Auburn in the tournament. Wouldn't be surprised if they spend some time in the top 25 next year.

Oregon State brings back Tres Tinkle, who is a legit All-American candidate (21 ppg, 8 reb, 4 ast, 2 stl). Ethan Thompson is a solid #2, who averaged 14 ppg, 5 reb, 4 assists. Kylor Kelley, the big guy, didn't put up huge numbers overall, but he was 2nd in the nation in blocked shots at 3.4 per game.

Alabama I suppose is debatable. Kira Lewis and John Petty are super talented. I think either one of those guys could develop into an NBA player. Alex Reese as the #3 might be a little stretch, but I like him.

 

[GE Nole]

I think so, but I've been wrong before. I compiled the majority of my list in my head while giving a bath to my 2 year-old lol. I assume FSU's top 3 is Forrest, Walker, and Vassell? Forrest I think could be an All-ACC player. Not sure about Walker, he's been really inconsistent. Vassell has a nice shooting touch. Didn't see enough of him to get a feel for his game, though.

NMSU is bringing back their whole team, went 30-5 last year and they easily could have beaten Auburn in the tournament. Wouldn't be surprised if they spend some time in the top 25 next year.

Oregon State brings back Tres Tinkle, who is a legit All-American candidate (21 ppg, 8 reb, 4 ast, 2 stl). Ethan Thompson is a solid #2, who averaged 14 ppg, 5 reb, 4 assists. Kylor Kelley, the big guy, didn't put up huge numbers overall, but he was 2nd in the nation in blocked shots at 3.4 per game.

Alabama I suppose is debatable. Kira Lewis and John Petty are super talented. I think either one of those guys could develop into an NBA player. Alex Reese as the #3 might be a little stretch, but I like him.

Great point about New Mexico State. They are loaded and certainly belong on the top 15 list. Bama and Oregon State...ehh. That talent didn’t even get them to an NCAA bid last year.

What makes FSU tricky is that the system doesn’t always lend itself to huge raw stats. So many guys play. But that doesn’t mean someone like Forrest isn’t having a huge impact. He might be the best perimeter defender in the ACC.

See my post like 12 above this for my thoughts. I listed Forrest, MJ Walker, and RaiQuan Gray—all three starters in a close Sweet 16 loss to Gonzaga. But Vassell is right there too. MJ is inconsistent, no doubt about it, but still a very good defender (which doesn’t always show up in the box score) and a capable scorer; 39% from 3 against Tier A opponents, 87% FT shooter in conference play.

I’m not sure why, but generally speaking FSU is perpetually undervalued in the off-season. Always seem to finish 3-4 spots higher in the ACC than where we are picked. At some point folks have to start giving a little benefit of the doubt.

 

[dukedevilz]

Great point about New Mexico State. They are loaded and certainly belong on the top 15 list. Bama and Oregon State...ehh. That talent didn’t even get them to an NCAA bid last year.

What makes FSU tricky is that the system doesn’t always lend itself to huge raw stats. So many guys play. But that doesn’t mean someone like Forrest isn’t having a huge impact. He might be the best perimeter defender in the ACC.

See my post like 12 above this for my thoughts. I listed Forrest, MJ Walker, and RaiQuan Gray—all three starters in a close Sweet 16 loss to Gonzaga. But Vassell is right there too. MJ is inconsistent, no doubt about it, but still a very good defender (which doesn’t always show up in the box score) and a capable scorer; 39% from 3 against Tier A opponents, 87% FT shooter in conference play.

I’m not sure why, but generally speaking FSU is perpetually undervalued in the off-season. Always seem to finish 3-4 spots higher in the ACC than where we are picked. At some point folks have to start giving a little benefit of the doubt.

I think FSU will be fine next season. Still a tournament team. They'll get nice help from the freshmen and transfers. Love Forrest. He's a gamer.

But the thread was on the best returning players, not the best teams. Oregon State returns 3 of their top 4 players. Alabama is bringing back 2 of their top 3 (and I think Kira Lewis is a future 1st rounder). FSU is losing 6 of their top 8. Was never really wowed by Walker or Gray. Alabama was #64 and Oregon State was #81 on the kenpom rankings. Turnover is outrageously high for almost every P6 school. I think Alabama will be in the 8-10 seed range for the tournament. Oregon State is a bubble team in my mind. OSU has great quality players, just terrible depth. A little like BC in that regard.

 

[GE Nole]

I think FSU will be fine next season. Still a tournament team. They'll get nice help from the freshmen and transfers. Love Forrest. He's a gamer.

But the thread was on the best returning players, not the best teams. Oregon State returns 3 of their top 4 players. Alabama is bringing back 2 of their top 3 (and I think Kira Lewis is a future 1st rounder). FSU is losing 6 of their top 8. Was never really wowed by Walker or Gray. Alabama was #64 and Oregon State was #81 on the kenpom rankings. Turnover is outrageously high for almost every P6 school. I think Alabama will be in the 8-10 seed range for the tournament. Oregon State is a bubble team in my mind. OSU has great quality players, just terrible depth. A little like BC in that regard.

Right, I get the point of the thread. I guess I’m questioning how much it really means to return “2 of their top 3” when they weren’t even a top 50 team, you know?

Like, just because a team returns it’s top players doesn’t mean those are better than another team’s 4th and 5th best player from the previous year.

Forrest, as an all around player, is more impactful than anyone on Oregon State or Alabama. He’s been the starting point guard for an elite 8 team and a sweet 16 team.

I’m not necessarily just arguing this for FSU either. I’m suggesting that starters—even if not the best players last season—for UVA, FSU, Duke, Michigan State, etc. are potentially better than the best returning player for an NIT team. You can’t just look at last year’s stats, when those guys were on teams with studs.

Oh...and I’d suggest keeping your eye on Gray. MJ is probably always gonna be inconsistent. Not sure he’ll ever make the league, unless he really becomes a knock down perimeter guy.

Gray on the other hand...I’ve seen him do things in practice against guys like Kabengele and Phil Cofer that drop your jaw. Kid just needs more reps and game experience.

 

[dukedevilz]

Right, I get the point of the thread. I guess I’m questioning how much it really means to return “2 of their top 3” when they weren’t even a top 50 team, you know?

Like, just because a team returns it’s top players doesn’t mean those are better than another team’s 4th and 5th best player from the previous year.

Forrest, as an all around player, is more impactful than anyone on Oregon State or Alabama. He’s been the starting point guard for an elite 8 team and a sweet 16 team.

I’m not necessarily just arguing this for FSU either. I’m suggesting that starters—even if not the best players last season—for UVA, FSU, Duke, Michigan State, etc. are potentially better than the best returning player for an NIT team. You can’t just look at last year’s stats, when those guys were on teams with studs.

Oh...and I’d suggest keeping your eye on Gray. MJ is probably always gonna be inconsistent. Not sure he’ll ever make the league, unless he really becomes a knock down perimeter guy.

Gray on the other hand...I’ve seen him do things in practice against guys like Kabengele and Phil Cofer that drop your jaw. Kid just needs more reps and game experience.

Different ways to interpret impactful, I suppose. I get what you're saying. Forrest is driving the engine of a more successful program, therefore he makes a bigger dent in the landscape of college basketball. But I don't think Forrest is more impactful than Tres Tinkle. Dude has already been 1st Team All Pac-12 twice. Easily the best returning player in the Pac-12. If you look at the raw data on barttorvik, Tres Tinkle was ranked as the #21 player in 2019. He was sandwiched in between Shamorie Ponds and CJ Massinburg - two guys that absolutely killed it this year. Not sure where Forrest is, but I know it's not in the top 100.

 

[GE Nole]

Different ways to interpret impactful, I suppose. I get what you're saying. Forrest is driving the engine of a more successful program, therefore he makes a bigger dent in the landscape of college basketball. But I don't think Forrest is more impactful than Tres Tinkle. Dude has already been 1st Team All Pac-12 twice. Easily the best returning player in the Pac-12. If you look at the raw data on barttorvik, Tres Tinkle was ranked as the #21 player in 2019. He was sandwiched in between Shamorie Ponds and CJ Massinburg - two guys that absolutely killed it this year. Not sure where Forrest is, but I know it's not in the top 100.

Fair enough on Tres Tinkle (although...it is the Pac 12 lol. They had like one top 40 team last year). But Petty has been underwhelming to say the least.

 

[viviajm]

Who is your top 3 returning players?

For Kansas:
PG.) Devon Dotson, So
PF.) Silvio DeSousa, Jr
C.) Udoka Azubuike, Sr

Have to think that is among the best if not the best 3 returning players as a whole in the nation.

While agree with your pick of KU I think that Big Mack will shine this year. So as valuable as Silvio it I would replace his name with Big Mack's

 

[RockChalk82]

Obviously not a strong returning 3 for Duke. I'd say Tre Jones, Javin DeLaurier, and maybe Jack White if he can re-gain his confidence that he had in the OOC season. For team's around the country I'll go with...

My top 10
1. Michigan State: Cassius Winston, Josh Langford, Xavier Tillman
2. Kansas: Udoka Azbuike, Devon Dotson, Silvio De Sousa
3. Maryland: Anthony Cowan, Jalen Smith, Eric Ayala
4. Louisville: Jordan Nwora, Steven Enoch, Dwayne Sutton
5. LSU: Skylar Mays, Javonte Smart, Emmitt Williams
6. Seton Hall: Myles Powell, Myles Cale, Sandro M.
7. Illinois: Ayo Dosunmu, Trent Frazier, Giorgi B.
8. Utah State: Sam Merrill. Neemias Queta, Diogo Brito
9. Baylor: Tristan Clark, Mario Kegler, Jared Butler
10. Saint Mary's: Jordan Ford, Malik Fitts, Tanner Krebs

Next 10, not in order: Notre Dame, Creighton, Michigan, Purdue, Oregon State, Belmont, Gonzaga, Xavier, New Mexico State, Alabama

This is really good, Dukie. I’d bump Maryland down below UL tho. Other than that, looks good.

Of course biased that we have the #1 trio here.

 

[schoonerwest]

While agree with your pick of KU I think that Big Mack will shine this year. So as valuable as Silvio it I would replace his name with Big Mack's

I think he will shine as well but I still feel like he will be behind De Sousa on the depth chart. I hope he has a similar Sophomore season similar to Thomas Robinson in 2011 and Wayne Simien in 2003 (before the injury). Good enough to start almost anywhere and when he’s in it won’t be much of a drop off at all in production.

 

[ExitFlagger]

While agree with your pick of KU I think that Big Mack will shine this year. So as valuable as Silvio it I would replace his name with Big Mack's

Self said that McCormack is by far the most improved player. He's been killing it in scrimmages.