Why is that necessary? Michigan State and Gonzaga both have 2 losses but Michigan State has a played a more difficult schedule.
Stay consistent, at least.
Should Virginia move to #1 with a win over Duke?
- Thread starter della
- Start date
Why is that necessary? Michigan State and Gonzaga both have 2 losses but Michigan State has a played a more difficult schedule.
Stay consistent, at least.
How many threads are you going to make about UM being dissed? It doesn't matter if UM is # 1 or # 4 at this point in the season. You as well as everyone else has the ability to shape their future.
That would do the trick. It would be a bold statement if they could pull it off. It is very consistent, win a tough schedule and you will rise up, y'all should try it.
Are you drinking this early, Della? You made this thread and you made it about a team jumping undefeated Michigan.
A team jumping UM with a Big win against a Big team...
Both teams have two lossss and Michigan State has played a harder schedule. Which team should be ranked higher?
You make a thread about a team jumping undefeated Michigan and blame me for talking about Michigan in it. Are you drunk? Really?
no it was someone else in another thread who went overboard on it, then you started questioning their schedule. I just don't get the argument or why people actually give a **** who is ranked #1 in a poll in January.
It's a cool thing for people who aren't fans of teams that are #1 regularly.
Della's logic:
Virginia and Michigan both have 0 losses, but Virginia has played a harder schedule (93rd vs 103rd), so Virginia should be higher.
Gonzaga and Michigan St. both have 2 losses, but Gonzaga has played an easier schedule (84th vs 14th), so Gonzaga should be higher.
Yikes.
In fairness, Virginia's SOS is about to go way up after Saturday.
If we win Saturday, we will have three top 10 wins this season. That's pretty good.
I honestly would have no problem if Michigan is #1 even if UVA wins. They have an impressive resume as well. I also think they shouldn't really have a problem if UVA jumps them with a win over Duke. You can make reasonable arguments for both. None of this matters if UVA loses though.
I honestly would have no problem if Michigan is #1 even if UVA wins. They have an impressive resume as well. I also think they shouldn't really have a problem if UVA jumps them with a win over Duke. You can make reasonable arguments for both. None of this matters if UVA loses though.
hail,
The MSU poster asked, "What's it going to take?" I made my suggestion.
Do you think my suggestion was faulty? Do you think it illogical? If so, state why. If not, let it go.
I made a thread about Virginia jumping to first with a highly ranked victory. You then went on about UM having a lot of returning starters, so what? Who gives a shit what UM did last year and the name of the players returning?
The general question is should a high profile win move you above someone that holds serve. The specific question is should Virginia pass UM with a big win.
You starting trying to make an identity argument for UM and that has no value.
Last edited:
This is a joke right? Sorry, but AP voters and the committee don't take into account "how many starters returned from the previous season". There are hundreds of examples of teams with returning players not improving.
Lucky for you, this is basketball and rankings don't matter for squat. Mich, just like Duke, UVA, and TN all get to play in a tournament at the end of the year to decide.
Who do YOU think should be ranked higher between Gonzaga and Michigan State?
I didn't say anything about committee. I'm talking about preseason voters. I'd hope preseason voters would take into account when a national title runner up returns three starters (along with 5 of their top 8 and bring in a very good recruiting class).
I'm curious about the harder schedule comment here.
Gonzaga has played both TN and Duke and is 1-1. Both of those team are higher ranked than any team Mich state has played. KU is the highest ranked team MSU has played and they lost. The next highest team is in the 20s.
So Gonzaga has played a more top heavy schedule including Duke, TN, UNC, Creighton. Meanwhile MSU has played less of the top but more teams in the 20-50 range.
You continue to cite SOS in this argument. Which is a better display? Playing more top 15 teams and actually winning? Or beating more 20-50 ranked teams and elevating your SOS?
SOS isn't the end all metric and should only be part of the conversation. Personally, I think beating a top 5 Duke should end all arguments here and have Gonz ahead of MSU.
You don't see how Michigan being under ranked by the voters entering the season ties back into the conversation to where Michigan sits now? You're not that stupid. If Michigan started preseason #5 they would already be sitting in the #1 spot.
Agreed. Message board fodder with no real bearing. Just win on the court.
Which is my point entirely. "Strength of schedule" is inherently flawed because it isn't weighted properly. Teams get more SOS value for beating a #150 cupcake than a #250 cupcake when at the end of the day they are both cupcakes.
Della is the one grasping on firmly to the strength of schedule fallacy, so I'm asking her to be consistent. Kenpom ranks MSU's schedule significantly higher than Gonzaga's. If she is going to use SOS as to why undefeated Virginia > undefeated Michigan, then she should carry that logic to MSU vs Gonzaga.
I'm really confused. You seem to agree with me in saying that SOS by itself is not a good metric and should look more deeply within the wins. But then you go and ask Della to be consistent by the SOS number alone. You have just contradicted yourself.
Della appears consistent to me. With a 3rd top 10 win, UVA would probably be the favorite for #1. So in addition to having a better SOS, UVA has better overall wins.
On the other hand, Gonz would have a lower SOS than Mich St, but better wins.
That seems consistent to me.
Della is just citing record and SOS when it comes to Michigan and then not sticking to that logic with Michigan State.
I personally don’t have an issue with Virginia being higher than Michigan and that was never my point. My point is that simply using SOS to downplay how good of a team Michigan might be is dumb. We both seem aware of the flaws with SOS.
Michigan and Virginia have comparable wins right now and neither have a loss. I don’t see any issue with people who think Virginia is better and I don’t see any issue with people who think Michigan is better.
The thread is about Virginia jumping UM with a high profile win. So, what is your opinion on the thread as it was written? Cause, this has nothing to do with UT.
You need to realize that these rankings are fluid and can and should be effected by big events.
Of course you won’t answer it because it exposes your bias.
My opinion is that their resumes right now are similar and both teams look good. I think both teams look good enough to be called #1. I don’t think either one is necessarily the unquestioned #1.
You claim I'm not answering an unthread related question when you still have't answered the thread question? Should Virginia jump UM to #1 with a win over Duke? Who is the real poster trying to hide bias...
Is beating a depleted Duke (kenpom #2) team enough to say Virginia is undeniably better than Michigan who in this scenario would be beating kenpom #16 Wisconsin? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think one “should” be higher than the other. I think it’s fair to still think Michigan would be better and I think it’s fair to think Virginia would better.
I’ve already explained why it’s related, you’re just losing your mind in old age.
And I literally just answered your question in the post you quoted.
It’s not a yes or no. I don’t think Michigan OR Virginia necessarily should be the unanimous #1. I think both would be a fair #1.
You keep bringing that up. I don’t get your hardon for UVA but whatever. They did something y’all couldn’t, and the Belk Bowl was fun also.
I'll throw in my 2 cents on who should be ranked # 1 but some people are taking it way too serious and getting in multi-page arguments over it.
Similar threads
