First mistake.
So thinking liberals are idiots doesn't prevent things from happening... and there's a double-standard... I guess that makes you... a liberal?
Rosanne Lamar Bee Left/Right Slugjam
- Thread starter KYtotheCore
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Bee insulted one individual based on her perception of how that one individual conducts herself. It was a crude remark. Roseanne insulted an entire race of people - two races/ethnicities, really - while attempting to insult one person. And the insult wasn't even mostly based on how that one individual conducts herself; it was based on her genetic makeup and heritage.
Bee was commenting in response to a social media post by Ivanka that she, and/or her writers, perceived as insensitive and calculated. Roseanne was tweeting in response to.... what?
Both Bee and Roseanne knew what they were saying/typing. The 'off-the-cuff' defense is not a suitable defense for Roseanne. Bee's audience is primarily composed of people who would, more or less, tend to agree with her opinions. She's not on network tv and the comments didn't/haven't/won't likely negatively impact viewership. From a business standpoint, assuming her ratings were good prior to the remark, it wouldn't make sense to fire her. Roseanne's show reaches a larger, more diverse audience that watches more for entertainment value than for social commentary. With her tweet, she alienated a pretty significant portion of the show's audience. From a business standpoint, a severe punishment was warranted.
If somebody at Fox News levied a personal attack on Hilary Clinton, similar to Bee's comments - without the c-word, obviously - would Conservatives expect backlash from the Left but, more or less, tend to agree with the criticism? Yeah, probably. Would anybody expect the Fox News person responsible for the remarks to be fired? Probably not. At least, 90%+ of the viewers of the program wouldn't want or expect it. Bee's situation is the same, just from the other perspective.
Bee hasn't shown any history of racist thoughts. Her husband opposed re-zoning of NYC schools back in 2016 for various legitimate reasons, as many parents would, none of which was based on race. Nice try, though.
Bottom line, being impolite and mean to a single person because you don't like them or what they have done/do is different than slamming entire cultures or ethnicities as a basis for putting down somebody you don't like.
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You made solid points and I don't think anyone could say that you are wrong on any of it. But the problem is people are trying to group Roseanne's comments in with Bee's. They are completely different as you pointed out. That doesn't mean that there is not a double standard. You yourself are giving Bee a pass simply because she was only attacking one person and she was doing it in front of an audience that mostly shares her political views and would agree with her. She is only one example of the double standards in the entertainment industry. It would be full homerism to deny it simply because one person's insult was directed at one person and the other was an insult to more than one person.
I am certain that if the entertainment industry and the MSM leaned right, the double standard would be reversed. But it would still be hard to deny.
I'm giving Bee a pass because I don't think calling somebody the c-word is a fire-able offense. Audience aside, it's just the word you use when the b-word doesn't quite cut it. Personally, I wouldn't call for the head of anybody, Left, Right, or Center, simply because they called a somebody the c-word; justly or unjustly. I guess I just don't know what the expectation is in response to comments like hers?
Ad hominem attacks are common on both sides of the aisle and equally condemned by both sides. Is it because the Right perceives themselves as under-represented in media that they feel the punishments are disproportionate? If the argument is that the punishment would be different for a person on a Conservative show making comments about a Liberal, then I'm not buying it. You could perhaps argue the 'outrage' would be higher, but I'm not buying that either. There just happen to be more Left-leaning news networks on tv, but so what? For arguments sake, lets say Conservatives and Liberals in the country are split 50/50. Well, Fox has the Conservatives pretty much wrapped up and delivers its message to practically all of them. The 3-ish 'Liberal' networks just split their coverage among the remaining 50% or so. The same audience is being reached, one side just has a more diverse selection. This is all a gross oversimplification, because most people who watch news watch/read more than one outlet and not all 'Liberal' outlets are equally Liberal, but I'm not going to dive into that.
Hey, speaking of a double-standard...
(Same line, but from a different thread from the first one.)
The balance of the 13 instances that slur has appeared in letsgo's posts have been in quotations of other posters. I didn't see a single one where he took any of them to task for it.
It's not just the MSM, it is the entertainment industry as well. I think you are downplaying it to fit your narrative. It is also not just that it was a liberal calling out a conservative. It was a liberal disgustingly attacking a mother without provocation just because her last name is Trump. So according to you, what Ivanka did was so bad, calling her the B word wouldn't quite cut it. Posting a picture of her with her son makes her a ****. Like I said, this is just one example of how disgustingly hypocritical the left has become.
I stand by those and will accept any sort of backlash that comes my way. Those are comments made on a message board with a very small, very small chance of the people I was commenting on ever seeing them. Not on Twitter tagging those people, or on a cable television show. So what standard am I supposed to be held to that is remotely close to that of public figures?
I am just glad that you think about me enough to dig those up. Haha. Now if I scolded you for calling somebody a **** here on Rivals while I was doing it, then you might have an argument.
And b/c she is involved in his administration...
And b/c her social media post seemed strategic (you should be able to empathize w/ doubting every motive of anyone on the opposite end of the political spectrum)...
And b/c her father just made a policy about separating undocumented immigrant children from their mothers...
Laughing
Of course you do. And of course you can bu-bu-bu-but rationalize it. But liberals explaining the difference between a racist tweet and a crude, offensive ad hominem attack is soooo hypocritical. lol
So children were not being separated from their families before Trump? Because I don't remember anyone calling Michelle Obama a feckless **** for posting pictures of their daughters while immigrant children were being held in cages. And you are presuming that Ivanka posted that picture for strategic purposes? To mock immigrant families that have been separated from their families? You are sicker than I thought.
It wasn't without provocation and it wasn't just because her last name is Trump. That's a misrepresentation of fact.
And what exactly am I downplaying to fit my narrative? You realize that Bee was almost universally criticized for the comment, right? I don't understand what was hypocritical about the coverage. When Righties criticize Lefties in an unfair way, the Lefties get mad and say it's the worst thing in the world. When Lefties criticize Righties, the Righties get mad and say it's the worst thing in the world. What am I missing here?
On your second part. Sure, I agree. But what on earth did Ivanka do to provoke anyone to call her a feckless ****?
So "disgusting insults" are okay as long as the person you're insulting won't know about them or because your audience isn't large? I enjoy talking trash about people behind their backs as much as the next person but I don't fool myself into thinking it's anymore okay for me to say terrible things than it is for hosts of tv shows or other public figures.
It's been covered. You're of the opinion her post wasn't intentional or tone-deaf, it was just a coincidence. My opinion differs. That's fine. What was a misrepresentation of fact is that Bee's response was without provocation. Bee and her writers shared the opinion that Ivanka's post was not proper at that time and responded based on that. They didn't walk into the writer's meeting one day and say to each other, "Ivanka is a real turd because she's a Trump, let's say mean things about her cuz we don't like her."
Well, of the people I was speaking of. One of them was celebrating the death of Barbara Bush and has a very radical mindset. I would absolutely call her that to her face. The other one is hilldogg and dat is leaving out the fact that I wasn't the one who originally called her that. Admittedly, I probably would not call hilldogg a **** to her face, though I don't have a problem calling her one on internet message board.
It is very sad when a mother can't post a picture of her and her son because of who her father is.
For the thousandth time... it has nothing to do with who her father is. She's posted a million pictures of her family and nobody has said anything.
But for her to post a picture celebrating being a mother and how important it is, just as her fathers Attorney General is, under her father's name, implementing policies that literally tear kids away from their families... and for her to talk about what a champion she is for mothers and working mothers and children... and then not do anything about it?
THAT'S why she got hit by Bee.
Don't misrepresent what happened.
Do you think she posted that picture to mock children from being separated from their families?
I thought you were an apples to apples kind of guy. Let's stick to this topic for now. I am really curious to see the justification for calling Ivanka a feckless ****.
The Obama's were treated well by the media. I don't ever recall any of them being called bad words.
If someone call my daughter a fleckless **** to my face I would punch his/her foul mouth. Samantha Bee is a proven turd.
If someone call my daughter a fleckless **** to my face I would punch his/her foul mouth. Samantha Bee is a proven turd.
I don't think the argument is that she was mocking the children or the families being pulled apart.
No.
This.
She is feckless because she has said she is all about mothers and children and family (I assume you know that she has said this is basically her primary focus) and then posts a beautiful photo of her and her kid... all without ever seeming to do anything meaningful about a pretty rough situation for mothers and children. When you are a public figure with power, you should DO something about problems, not ignore them.
Oh man. Okay, this part of the convo is done, I think. Either you think Ivanka should put her money where her mouth is and actually do something to help mothers and children, or you don't. No point in this endless back and forth.
And you wouldn't be wrong in my opinion. If you exercise your right to say that to somebody, you should know what comes next---and it would be earned. It might be the only way some people learn.
Not so sure about that, myself.
If someone I don't know and I don't care about calls my daughter a name, I think I shrug and think 'What a schmuck.' I don't think I go punching them in the face.
We can respectively disagree. The situation is a lot more complicated than how it is being portrayed. No one holds the parents of these kids accountable for putting them in this situation to begin with. It is a very difficult conversation to have without coming off as unsympathetic. I honestly don't think Ivanka is unsympathetic, but I don't know. I just don't think it's fair to attack her for something so innocent. But if it is your opinion that she is not innocent, I am not in the position to prove you wrong. I just disagree.
I see it differently. You can call me any name in the book....and I can handle it the way you described. But if you attack my wife or kids....specifically a woman, then I have no problem giving one last warning and then removing them from the situation. I don't like fighting. But standing up for your wife or kids is the foundation of being a man/husband/dad.
Not exactly the best example to set, imo. One would hope their wife or daughter is more than capable of handling some fool who calls them the c-word on their own. If not, their husband or dad should be more than capable of resolving the situation without punching somebody and going to jail. If somebody physically assaults your wife or daughter, sure, punch the heck out of them. But escalating a bad situation for the sake of being a 'good man/husband/dad' seems misguided.
You bet. To do otherwise means you are a chicken shit father. There are some things that are not acceptable in civil society and that is one of them.
Geeze man
My memory is excellent. Name one personality calling any of the Obama women/girls that word.
What's your take on Joy Reid and her situation? She made some pretty bad posts on homosexuality and other things. Had it been a conservative on Fox or something like that, I believe that person would have been fired. However, Joy Reid is allowed to "evolve" her beliefs and just apologize even though she has lied about this since it broke.
One additional note, that tweet from Ivanka was perceived as insensitive? Why? Could it be because of a fake attack on Trump's immigration policies? The backlash she got was because that photo of the children in cells surfaced even though they were from 2014. So, really, the attacks on Ivanka sholdn't have even happened. I would argue that regardless of those photos or not, she posted a nice picture of her and her kid. Nothing at all wrong with that.
There is a double standard.
